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Existential Crisis? Towers and it's future

Ash said:

From: https://youtu.be/77s-usDTWIc?si=XK6WVYI97piu0J5Z


And


From: https://youtu.be/ITQdDrjEANw?si=rtZhIdWPAJ9dry


Thoughts?

FWIW I think Shaun is close to spot on and realistic in his assessments. Here is my take:

2026:
Rides-
Bluey
X Sector add indoor huss breakdance

Infrastructure-
Permanent park lighting continues
Extend all ride closes to 5pm minimum with park gates/towers street facilities open from 9 and closing at 6.
Move water park opening hours 2-8pm and rename Cariba Creek Waterpark

F&B-
Add in carvery offering to Lakeside Hospitality suite

Retail-
Add partial shop in Nemesis: Reborn photo shop

Entertainment-
Add in permanent maze space to X sector

2027:
Rides-
Monorail Refurb
Shutter TWODW

Infrastructure-
New Plaza Security buildings and beautification (Festoon lighting, Fountain etc)
New Towers Street retail/meet & greet in current office space

F&B-

Retail-
Add retail to Oblivion shop

Entertainment-
Semi permanent stages re-added to Courtyard Tavern (Pirate show) & Fountain Square (Henry/Henrietta Hound)
Characters reintroduced (Henry/Henriett Hound (TS), Sir Algenon (ATH), Snorlix (FS), Emily Alton (GW), Phalanx/John Dalton (FV), Dr Kelman (XS))

2028:
Rides-
Retheme/Reopen TWODW as Victorian steam punk themed land connected to the towers
GG rethemed
Carousel relocated to ATH
Driving school relocated to CBeebies land
BB relocated to Mutiny Bay
New indoor playground added

Infrastructure-
Add historical boards to towers and repair gardens

F&B-
Coffee shop added to new Steam Punk land in existing building
Reopen Towers St Family Restaurant with “carvery” offer

Retail-
New retail added to new steampunk land

Entertainment-
Add museum exhibitions inside refurbed parts of
Towers
4D cinema reopened as Algenon/Snorlix character show

2029:
Rides-
Project Horizon opens as steampunk space themed family thrill coaster
Postman pat ride repurposed and added to Katanga Canyon

Infrastructure-
Add new car parking space within meadows parking

F&B-
TWODW burger kitchen rethemed to Victorian steampunk retheme
Reopen Swiss Cottage with “Fine dining” offer

Retail-
Add retail to Oblivion shop

Entertainment-
Permanent stage show facility added alongside extraordinary golf

2030:
Rides-
Family ETF trackless dark ride added to Dungeons building
Galactica rethemed to Aerial Incursion Ride
Shutter Dark Forest (minus Thirteen)

Infrastructure-
Solar panels added to TCAAM, Car Parks

F&B-
RCR relocated to new building near hotels

Retail-
Air shop reopened

Entertainment-
Wraiths reintroduced to dark Forest

2031:
Rides-
Rita removed
Intamin Dynamic Motion Stage (Danse Macabre) added to Dark Forest
Indoor playground added

Infrastructure-
Cover added to Extraordinary golf

F&B-
New dark forest f&b

Retail-
Thirteen retail reinstated

Entertainment-
Fountain show introduced to main lake


Expensive yes, but trying to balance new additions with opportunities for generating returns and reusing as much as possible.
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Every geek has their own wish list but the issues with this one:

1) Towers family restaurant doesn’t get enough footfall over lunch due to its location. It’s why it repeatedly fails when they try and open it. Last time was when CBeebies opened and they thought it might pull guests to the top of TS, it didn’t.

2) Oblivion shop wasn’t profitable, they could do better things with that space.

3) Why spend money moving RCR to another location when it does well where it is to reopen a shop that wasn’t that profitable?

4) Why spend money covering the golf? It would be a massive capex for minimum gain and probably wouldn’t get planning permission.

5) Again with Thirteen retail. Wasn’t profitable. Merlin are money driven, they wouldn’t have closed these outlets if they didn’t bring an income. The shops that did are still running (Smiler, Curse, Nemesis, Wickerman etc).

I find it curious Shaun suddenly started to see the flaws at Towers around the same time Towers ended the content creator programme…..

Better late than never I suppose 😂
 
Benzin said:
Still not adding the needed flats in the empty spaces in X-Sector either for a number of years either. Filling up dead spaces like that should be the first priority as it's simpler in theory.

But it's easy to play with someone else's money.
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Easy to twiddle with things on Rollercoaster Tycoon, less easy in real life.

The fundamental issue is and always has been rides.. bring the rides and you bring the customers, who bring the money. Although expensive the actual spending on incidentals is something that I am happy to swallow if I have a good day and don't have to spend it queuing for things that constantly break.
 
Dave said:
Every geek has their own wish list but the issues with this one:

1) Towers family restaurant doesn’t get enough footfall over lunch due to its location. It’s why it repeatedly fails when they try and open it. Last time was when CBeebies opened and they thought it might pull guests to the top of TS, it didn’t.

2) Oblivion shop wasn’t profitable, they could do better things with that space.

3) Why spend money moving RCR to another location when it does well where it is to reopen a shop that wasn’t that profitable?

4) Why spend money covering the golf? It would be a massive capex for minimum gain and probably wouldn’t get planning permission.

5) Again with Thirteen retail. Wasn’t profitable. Merlin are money driven, they wouldn’t have closed these outlets if they didn’t bring an income. The shops that did are still running (Smiler, Curse, Nemesis, Wickerman etc).

I find it curious Shaun suddenly started to see the flaws at Towers around the same time Towers ended the content creator programme…..

Better late than never I suppose 😂
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He’s been critical of Alton towers for years; it’s nothing new.
 
Josh555 said:
He’s been critical of Alton towers for years; it’s nothing new.
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There are levels of criticism, and a lot of content creators have ebbed and flowed based on their current access to the park.

He has never been fawning to be fair to him but I suspect that video might have been less click baity if the content creators programme was still a thing.
 
It’s a pretty well thought out video, although really it can be summarised as:

- fix the monorail, entrance plaza and Towers Street
- fix X-Sector
- fix the World of David Walliams and the surrounding parts
- fix the Dark Forest

Obviously it’s more detailed than that! But I think we all know the main areas that need the attention.
 
Dave said:
There are levels of criticism, and a lot of content creators have ebbed and flowed based on their current access to the park.

He has never been fawning to be fair to him but I suspect that video might have been less click baity if the content creators programme was still a thing.
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Dunno, if you watch some of the videos of him actually in the park he’s been fairly scathing at times, I think with him it’s mostly genuine and not driven by anything else.
 
Has Towers management got some sort of fortress mentality. Where they are surrounded with people who will say yes all the time with no one standing up saying this is wrong
 
The vast majority of people that actually work at Towers are likely emotionally invested in the company and want the best for it, as they live and breath it every day. But more often than not they’re not the key decision makers. The key decision makers are though who view the park through little more than spreadsheets and self-set KPIs.
 
Without putting people in charge who have run establishments better than Alton Towers I struggle to believe they will be able to improve based on the existing organisation.

They’re haemorrhaging people to universal already, I’m intrigued to see how they turn it round in 5 years as at the moment I see nothing but decline.
 
Mick said:
It’s a pretty well thought out video, although really it can be summarised as:

- fix the monorail, entrance plaza and Towers Street
- fix X-Sector
- fix the World of David Walliams and the surrounding parts
- fix the Dark Forest

Obviously it’s more detailed than that! But I think we all know the main areas that need the attention.
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The problem now is that's years worth of work and millions spent to maybe get the park back to were it was circa 2010.

On top of that you've got a ride line up were the newest major coaster is now into its 9th season of operation.

They spent a fortune on renewing Nemesis and its area, and now the rest of the early secret weapons are 20+ years into operation and will need decisions made about them as well, whilst the Rita style coasters are becoming rarer every year as well.

So they'll be spending to stand still whilst hoping the ageing hardware can continue to operate. All this whilst a Universal Park is being built in the country which will bring massive competition right onto Alton Towers door step.
 
From memory the last brand new F&B building in the park was ground command In 2016 (10 years) and that’s awful and prior to that Woodcutters in 2007 (19 years)

I’d argue the last true ride built on new ground was Air in 2002 (24 years)

And the only ride with the overall quality of Nemesis in 1994 was Wickerman in 2018 (24 years)

The food has gotten worse, the gardens have gotten worse, the upkeep has gotten a lot worse and the hotels have gotten worse and a lot more expensive

The place has dined out on past glories for long enough, it’s been badly run when arguably upkeep, improvement and quality should of been a priority over some of the utter rubbish they’ve wasted their money on to no tangible benefit to the park over that time.

The place is stuck in nowhere land, desperately clinging to the MAP money, cheap 241 discounts and nickel and diming you.

Meanwhile Paultons are making quality after quality decisions and execution and Drayton Manor are installing water shows and having K Pop events.

It’s a damn, damn shame where it’s at, but they’ve nobody to blame but themselves. The rolling door of people who evidently don’t know what they’re doing. Either locally or at C suite level.

Merlin needs splitting in two, midway and theme parks. And go and get executives from places better than you to run theme parks from board level down. (Universal and Efteling I’m looking at you) Or is the place throttled by bean counters and private equity?

It’s a horrible state of affairs, but when does it end?
 
Stayed away from this topic, I know of enough doom and gloom, but, here we go.

How can you say the place is in an existential crisis?

The parks future is not in question whatsoever...it will remain, pretty much as is, for decades, without any real issues.

Thoosie vapours over twenty pages.

We still get two hour queues in peak times for major rides.

Off peak days of the past where just about everything was walk on all day...all gone...those were the real losing money days.

There is no questioning of existence by anyone apart from the overenthusiastic visitors.

There is no crisis whatsoever...the park makes progress over time, new rides are provided, the punters are very much there, and keep coming back.

So, to quote Supertramp...(and the Sun misquoting Callaghan)

Crisis, What Crisis?

There isn't one.
 
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The issue is Alton Towers os still successful but Merlin as an entity isn't. The parent company are a dragging the park down with limited investment/ cost cutting when there focus is elsewhere. So it crisis is a Merlin one.
 
AltonLover123 said:
The park would be closed within a year.
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To be fair to him he’s not suggesting he should be MD and he says several times in one of the two videos (I can’t remember which) that his business knowledge isn’t great.

What he’s advocating is pretty sensible and mostly echos the consensus on here.
 
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