2026: General Discussion

[Mick]

Watching the series of half term vlogs you really do get a clear picture of the main parks:

- Legoland: busy but worth a trip with a lot open
- Blackpool: limited offering and overpriced but you can at least do things
- Paultons: a near full on offering and a very good day out.
- Alton Towers and Chessington: rammed and with nothing to do.

We’ll never know how much £s each park has made from their various decisions from this last week, for all we know Alton Towers has absolutely raked in the money and they don’t mind a few irritated guests as they’ve normalised long queues anyway.

 

[rob666]

How do we know that alton have raked in the money?
We don't know the numbers attending who have actually paid cash, I imagine the majority are passholders, so not that much money probably.

 

[Islander]

Somewhere online I heard that they only expected 1000 last Saturday and 5000 turned up. I'd imagine its been very similar all week...

For whatever reason it seems they have had far, far more people turn up this year than they anticipated...

To think that, in the age of prebooking for both general entry and even annual passes, where a tiny proportion of visitors just rock up and purchase tickets on the gate, that Towers would so badly mess up their visitor number forecasts, is a bit laughable.

Though tbf, I did read somewhere that they were expecting 32 guests yesterday, but 15,000 showed up...

 

[Secret Weapon]

A stopped clock is right twice a day.

If a multi-national corporation has started taking strategic business advice from vloggers, we're definitely doomed.

The suggestion to open Wicker Man has been floating around this forum for weeks. It's a well documented phenomenon that content creators scour these pages for "research" and then present the community consensus as their own unique insight.

The park opened the ride because the booking numbers demanded capacity, not because an influencer demanded it. Independent thought does occasionally happen, even at Alton Towers.

For what it’s worth, Bradley Wynne (one of the key designers of Wicker Man and other Merlin attractions) said in the 2018 Wicker Man Q&A that he does in fact read fan forum posts – see link below at the 8:51 mark.

My guess is that it probably depends upon the person, though; the likes of Bradley Wynne and John Burton* began as theme park enthusiasts themselves, and so they are probably more likely to scour fan forums than the likes of Nick Varney and Bianca Sammut, et cetera, who strike me more as generic executives who would gladly work in any sector (similar to the new Xbox executive Asha Sharma).

*Speaking of John Burton: perhaps I am unfair, but I suspect that he often recycles old ideas anyway, as “The Curse at Alton Manor” sounds suspiciously similar to Hex’s original working title of “The Curse of Alton Towers”...


From: https://youtu.be/iuIo4C5-81w?t=531

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

For what it’s worth, Bradley Wynne (one of the key designers of Wicker Man and other Merlin attractions) said in the 2018 Wicker Man Q&A that he does in fact read fan forum posts – see link below at the 8:51 mark.

My guess is that it probably depends upon the person, though; the likes of Bradley Wynne and John Burton* began as theme park enthusiasts themselves, and so they are probably more likely to scour fan forums than the likes of Nick Varney and Bianca Sammut, et cetera, who strike me more as generic executives who would gladly work in any sector (similar to the new Xbox executive Asha Sharma).

*Speaking of John Burton: perhaps I am unfair, but I suspect that he often recycles old ideas anyway, as “The Curse at Alton Manor” sounds suspiciously similar to Hex’s original working title of “The Curse of Alton Towers”...


From: https://youtu.be/iuIo4C5-81w?t=531

Bradley Wynne and John Burton are Creatives. Their job is to decide how much wood to burn or where to position the scary doll. They have absolutely zero remit over day to day operational decisions, staffing rotas, or whether to open a coaster on a rainy Tuesday in February.

Given that both Nick Varney and Bianca Sammut have left the building (and the company), I should sincerely hope they have found better things to do with their retirement / new careers than refresh TowersStreet to see what we think about the monorail. If they are still lurking here, that's tragically amusing.

My point was never that Merlin staff don't read forums (we know they do, mostly for a laugh at our expense). My point was that multi-million pound corporations don't pivot their operational strategy based on the whimsical suggestions of Shawn Sanbrooke.

If they actually took strategic advice from this forum, the park would be bankrupt within a week, but at least we'd have a flat ride on every corner, a Hypercoaster in the gardens, and a Flying Theatre at the end of Hex.

 

[ghostRider]

Went today and the park was per capita probably thr busiest I’ve seen it in 15+ years. I’ve not been ti fireworks for longer than that though

They’ve really gone to town on the pirate theming which is good to see

 

[Burner]

Surely this entire discussion is equivalent to Betteridge's Law of Headlines - "Any question that suggests the influence of Sandbooke can be answered by the word no"

 

[GaryH]

I’m honestly amazed and shocked Alton think it’s acceptable to have families with young children waiting in 75 minute queues for children’s rides.

…. In the cold and rain.

Looking through this Pirate event Tripadvisor reviews does not offer good reading for AT. Reviews are mostly bad, citing the cold, weather, lack of any shelter or warm indoor space, food and drink prices and lengthy queues.

Granted AT can’t help the weather, but given the event is in Feb, some thought must be given to future events with regards shelter from the elements for families.

Interestingly, many also mentioned the lack of any transport and the lengthy walk with kids from the hotels to the park entrance in the poor weather. I thought there were busses?

 

[The_bup]

If they took any forums so seriously, they probably wouldn’t spend money on focus groups, online surveys and those odd little iPads on the wall that ask you questions.

The parks aren’t made for us, they’re made to appeal, entertain but most importantly relieve average guests of their heavy wallets.

Now, the creatives will always sneak in cheap little codes, refernces or whatever else, but its always an executive telling them to “make a Minecraft land” or approving a Nemesis retrack.

 

[Bert2theSpark]

What this forum would be useful for is enriching the data that their internal KPIs are telling them, normal guests may only spend 20 minutes filling out their forms of quantitative data or short comments on socials. However that data will not give depth, context or insight into the feedback, so I imagine that most of the time it’ll be a quick flick at times through the forum, but it’ll vary from a lot staff to staff in which channels get attention.

When it comes to general staff members, most of them will be unaware of the forums aside from the Insta/Facebook pages, and it was someone’s job in marketing to read every mention of Alton Towers on social media to make sure anything not on-brand is getting release that shouldn’t be public knowledge (I know people have 100% been pulled up on this, although I’ve seen a few contractors this season post off-season maintenance work).

 

[GaryH]

Towers definitely read these forums.

 

[Secret Weapon]

I might be wrong, but I don’t think that enthusiasts give themselves enough credit.

I often hear vloggers say that theme parks shouldn’t listen to them, because – if the enthusiasts had their way – the parks would be full of dozens of expensive and unprofitable record-breaking rides.

However: I think that most thoosies are actually much wiser than this, and would know better than to commit to unprofitable investments if they were ever given the opportunity to do so.

I actually think it’s Joe-Public who are less engaged with reality, and would simply want the instant gratification of “bigger, better, faster”, without thinking about the long-term health of the parks or the effect upon other attractions; a good example is Tom Skinner saying in the 2019 series of The Apprentice that he wanted a single new ride at Thorpe Park to break both the speed and inversion record (with a nonsensical theme, to boot), without considering that this would effectively render every other ride in the park redundant (it makes more sense to give Colossus the inversion record, Stealth the acceleration record, and Hyperia the height record – instead of rolling all three into one ride).

P.S. On an entirely separate note: I remember hearing in the 2018 Wicker Man Q&A session that Wicker Man was supposed to have an IP attached to it, but I’m not sure if it was ever revealed what it was? (Bradley Wynne said at the time that he was not allowed to disclose it, but I'm not sure if any NDAs have since expired?)

As good as Wicker Man is, I wonder if a pirate theme might have been a better fit for the Mutiny Bay area!

 

[Bowser]

a good example is Tom Skinner saying in the 2019 series of The Apprentice that he wanted a single ride to break both the speed and inversion record (with a nonsensical theme, to boot), without considering that this would effectively render every other ride in the park redundant (it makes more sense to give Colossus the inversion record, Stealth the acceleration record, and Hyperia the height record – instead of rolling all three into one ride).

He basically got his wish with Six Flags Qiddiya and yet for many Falcon's Flight still isn't the best coaster in the park so perhaps he was onto something!

 

[Ash]

I’m sorry but Merlin have:
Ticket online bookings
MAP online reservations
RAP reservations
Previous history

They have more than enough data to know what to expect.

They just aren’t good at giving guests a good experience anymore.

As low queue times as possible
Themed rides and lands which provide a great experience, regularly and in all weathers
Good quality mix of food and drink offering
Well maintained areas
Staff working to provide all of the above

 

[Secret Weapon]

I’m sorry but Merlin have:
Previous history

The “Secret Weapon” programme may have become an albatross around Merlin’s neck, because some of the public may now have come to expect new world-first attractions every few years, and won’t visit until / unless it arrives? (Anything short of that could now seem like a disappointment / decline)

The SW rides made sense during the 1990s, when AT was competing with the likes of Blackpool, Drayton Manor, and American Adventure to cement their position as the country’s premier theme park (as well as to combat the new threat of Disneyland Paris) – but it was ultimately unsustainable, in my opinion.


P.S. Regarding the influence of the forums: even if the AT executives don't read the forums themselves, they quite possibly work alongside at least one other person who does, and thus the forums may therefore be influencing their decisions without them perhaps even realising it!

For instance: I remember hearing that Merlin wanted to replace Nemesis with a new ride, but they were persuaded to retrack it instead, and I strongly suspect that they had received feedback from staff members who had scoured social media for opinions, et cetera (but perhaps I am wrong).

 

[Dave]

I’m sorry but Merlin have:
Ticket online bookings
MAP online reservations
RAP reservations
Previous history

They have more than enough data to know what to expect.

They just aren’t good at giving guests a good experience anymore.

As low queue times as possible
Themed rides and lands which provide a great experience, regularly and in all weathers
Good quality mix of food and drink offering
Well maintained areas
Staff working to provide all of the above

I think the data they have on bookings is sadly irrelevant, the budget for the event was set last year, pretty much every ride that could be opened in the area was opened, including adapting a water ride for a cold weather experience.

The issue is as with everything else they don’t have enough filler attractions and this is an event that is underpinned by filler attractions as roller coasters don’t operate great in cold whether.

I actually think Chessington are angling in the correct direction as their latest area will add 4 rides that can likely open in February, and Minecraft maybe also, but what is Towers doing to boost that ride capacity February half term needs? Bluey is higher capacity that postman pat but once you add up the difference it might give you an extra 300 an hour, not exactly ground breaking.

The only thing they haven’t done is open Walliams world, dunno if recent media coverage made them cautious but in theory that area opens in three weeks anyway so

 

[Benzin]

For instance: I remember hearing that Merlin wanted to replace Nemesis with a new ride, but they were persuaded to retrack it instead, and I strongly suspect that they had received feedback from staff members who had scoured social media for opinions, et cetera (but perhaps I am wrong).

I'd wager more than the conversation was more "Nemesis is coming to end of life, what are the potential options?".

Given that other parks across the world have closed "fan favourites" Merlin would be no different if it made sense financially.

 

[Bowser]

I'd wager more than the conversation was more "Nemesis is coming to end of life, what are the potential options?".

Given that other parks across the world have closed "fan favourites" Merlin would be no different if it made sense financially.

I think Nemesis goes beyond being a fan favourite, it's an integral part of the park and would be incredibly difficult to replace due to the terrain.

It would be the equivalent of Disney removing Big Thunder Mountain or Space Mountain.

 

[MrTowers]

I think the data they have on bookings is sadly irrelevant, the budget for the event was set last year, pretty much every ride that could be opened in the area was opened, including adapting a water ride for a cold weather experience.

The issue is as with everything else they don’t have enough filler attractions and this is an event that is underpinned by filler attractions as roller coasters don’t operate great in cold whether.

I actually think Chessington are angling in the correct direction as their latest area will add 4 rides that can likely open in February, and Minecraft maybe also, but what is Towers doing to boost that ride capacity February half term needs? Bluey is higher capacity that postman pat but once you add up the difference it might give you an extra 300 an hour, not exactly ground breaking.

The only thing they haven’t done is open Walliams world, dunno if recent media coverage made them cautious but in theory that area opens in three weeks anyway so

I think part of the problem Alton Towers has is it's the most complete park, as in it offers something for everyone. All other merlin parks have an age range which allows them to bulk up attractions at the target market (Chessington nearly completes this but misses out on the older teenager / young adult category that Thorpe dominates).

When Alton decides to do an event only aimed at one target market the place seems very short of attractions, just like they would be if they had an equivalent thrill only event. Management have realised that visitor numbers have a cap on them and running additional rides just adds expense with no reward which I believe is why we haven't seen replacements for the retro squad locations and all recent additions have just been replacement rides or refurbishments of existing rides.

As for Walliams world, I think it has opened for Feb half term before or i might be confusing it with the Christmas event. It must be a hard decision to open it given how far away it is from cbeebies or mutiny bay. Had Walliams world been where x-sector is i would imagine they would open it but it's not a massive draw and involves lots of path clearing as well as opening up additional facilities.

I think the best approach for the pirate event is to keep it around cbeebies and mutiny bay but move rides into the area from Walliams world for the event. Having Bluey and Octonaughts will effectively double the coasters for the target market meaning Octonaughts will likely end up with a sub 20 minute queue next year. Then if they can run spinball, wickerman, RMT and Curse there would be enough for older siblings to spread the crowds away from cbeebies as well as opening pizza pasta to have another sit in restaurant open in the cold. I would also turn Justin's House into a soft play to give them some more indoor space for when it rains or is cold as Justin's House is low capacity and very worn out now.

Another area which comes up is Towers street. It should be a bustling street with entertainment, meet and greets etc but is lifeless. This area could add capacity if used right, maybe putting the carasol in the centre would at least bring people there throughout the day or opening some of the unused areas as indoor picnic spaces to escape the cold would be nice (i know this doesn't feel very merlin)

This wouldn't be a massive thing for a park like Alton Towers to do but would make the event so much better.

 

[Secret Weapon]

I think Nemesis goes beyond being a fan favourite, it's an integral part of the park and would be incredibly difficult to replace due to the terrain.

Somebody else on the forum pointed out that if they had replaced Nemesis then they probably would have ended up building an almost identical ride anyway, due to the specific footprint of the site.

In fact, I remember hearing that the shape of the pit was at least partially designed for the original Arrow pipeline coaster (not the B&M invert that ended up going there instead), which proves the point that rides had to be adapted to fit in there.

Management have realised that visitor numbers have a cap on them

This is why I am sceptical that the new Universal GB theme park will achieve the huge visitor numbers they have predicted - but they will hopefully prove me wrong!