bluesonichd
TS Member
It politics, since when did it ever make sense
A bit like all those old farts in the House of Lords that have the ultimate cosmic power over everything
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The Brexit Thread
- Thread starter Matt N
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It politics, since when did it ever make sense
A bit like all those old farts in the House of Lords that have the ultimate cosmic power over everything
DiogoJ42
TS Member
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Please let me know when you find one. They are as clueless as the rest of us. The real work is done by the civil service that have been doing their jobs for years, if not decades. Not the MPs who are, at best, public relations temps.
bluesonichd
TS Member
and now Bercow wont let parliament vote on brexit
what an arse
what an arse
Stuie
TS Member
and now Bercow wont let parliament vote on brexit
what an arse
would they not be voting on the same thing they rejected 2 days ago?
bluesonichd
TS Member
but they didnt get to vote, they voted for something completely different , to delay making a decision
DiogoJ42
TS Member
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Oh for Fawkes sake, that was terrible!
As I said, it's not the system I'd choose, but it's the one we have.
I agree on the cabinet, just give jobs to your mates and those who you bribed to get you into the job isn't really valid.
Rick
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Crux
and now Bercow wont let parliament vote on brexit
what an arse
You're like a Daily Mail headline generator in this thread.but they didnt get to vote, they voted for something completely different , to delay making a decision
Error
TS Member
Mods, please shout this if we go off topic on all threads, would be brilliant, thanks.
Plastic Person
TS Member
Full disclosure, Barry, I've never been a fan of many of your posts here, largely owing to what I perceive to be a fundamental lack of conscience on your part. Nonetheless, without looking for a fight, I have to flag you on this statement.
There are a not small number of concerned people across the country who voted for something that they have slowly but surely come to realise cannot be deliver in any way resembling what they were initially promised by the powers that be. Some of them, with refreshing candour, have faced this reality and now feel we might actually be better off within the framework of the EU. In most cases, they have looked at the same news cycles and evidence you have. They have simply changed their mind. And that makes them enemies of democracy?
Honestly, some people in this thread need to get a grip.
Some good points posted since my post and I won't answer everybody directly because it would take all year but I will say again:
1) the result of the original referendum isn't being respected now, so I'll ask again what makes you think a re-vote will be if it's the same result?
2). Some people have died, some people have got to 18, so what, we were asked a question and it was answered at the time, should we vote every two years on the subject?
3) I knew exactly what I was voting for, the question was simple leave or remain in the EU, it's not a difficult question, the remainder of it was what we elect MPs for, it's their job to sort it out, not mine.
4) of the people I know none have changed their minds, yes this is a small selection but if you're going to try and stack the deck by allowing new people who've turned 18 since to vote, bear in mind some of those may well support leave too, you may not get the result you want that way either.
5). @BarryZola hits the nail on the head, if the general attitude is to be just ignore, overrule or rejects things we don't like, then where will it end, speed limits? I don't agree with them so can I just ignore them too? Disabled Parking Spaces, should anybody who disagrees with them be allowed to park in one? because those of you that want to ignore the original referendum result, that is essentially what you are saying.
1) the result of the original referendum isn't being respected now, so I'll ask again what makes you think a re-vote will be if it's the same result?
2). Some people have died, some people have got to 18, so what, we were asked a question and it was answered at the time, should we vote every two years on the subject?
3) I knew exactly what I was voting for, the question was simple leave or remain in the EU, it's not a difficult question, the remainder of it was what we elect MPs for, it's their job to sort it out, not mine.
4) of the people I know none have changed their minds, yes this is a small selection but if you're going to try and stack the deck by allowing new people who've turned 18 since to vote, bear in mind some of those may well support leave too, you may not get the result you want that way either.
5). @BarryZola hits the nail on the head, if the general attitude is to be just ignore, overrule or rejects things we don't like, then where will it end, speed limits? I don't agree with them so can I just ignore them too? Disabled Parking Spaces, should anybody who disagrees with them be allowed to park in one? because those of you that want to ignore the original referendum result, that is essentially what you are saying.
Nonsense.
I would have accepted the result if the leave campaign did not blatantly lie during the referendum campaign. Like I mentioned before, the remain party said that the NHS Bus figure was a lie, the leave campaign said it wasn't, but Nigel Farrage kept his mouth shut on this until the day of the referendum result.
If I go and purchased an item from the shop and I wanted it in the colour Blue as quoted on the box, but when I got home found out the item was actually the colour pink, I have the right to change my mind.
Politics is all about compromising and not about dictatorship. If the mood of the people have change regards to whether they want to leave or not, then it is democracy to put it back to the people to confirm that is the will of the people.
The referendum was only won by 4%, it's hardly a huge majority.
If Article 50 was revoked, I certainly won't be having that on my conscience and I certainly won't be losing any sleep over it.
However, if we did leave the EU and it turned out to be a complete disaster, then as someone that voted remain, I won't have that on my conscience either.
However saying that, if we do leave the EU, I hope that it does turns out to be a huge success and not a disaster. At the moment, I just feel that we have a lot to lose if this goes wrong. However if this goes well, we could also have a lot to gain.
At the end of the day, I could spend a £1 on the lottery and win a fortune, but the chances of that happening is very much against me, but then again, I certainly wouldn't gamble my home away on the lottery or anything. So why gamble the jobs and lively hood of every day folk for the sake of Brexit or in the name of democracy?
LOl remain lied too, they promised world war 3, economic collapse, housing market collapse, civil unrest... The only people I see fighting in the streets are the progressive left leaning remainers.
And if you think the figure on the bus was a lie then you need to stop listening to the left wing media, it was misleading, but it was not a lie. The figure was our contracted commitment before rebate for being a member of the EU, it was essentially the pre-discount price, saying membership of the EU cost everybody their first born and £1 billion a day, that's a lie.
Yes I agree it was so stupid so put that figure on the side of a bus, it was so easy to verify that it was incorrect and that in reality we actually paid a bit less, but to highlight that as the sole lie told during the campaign and use that as justification for ignoring the result is reaching at best.
And if you think the figure on the bus was a lie then you need to stop listening to the left wing media, it was misleading, but it was not a lie. The figure was our contracted commitment before rebate for being a member of the EU, it was essentially the pre-discount price, saying membership of the EU cost everybody their first born and £1 billion a day, that's a lie.
Yes I agree it was so stupid so put that figure on the side of a bus, it was so easy to verify that it was incorrect and that in reality we actually paid a bit less, but to highlight that as the sole lie told during the campaign and use that as justification for ignoring the result is reaching at best.
Plastic Person
TS Member
They weren't 'promises', they were warnings. And don't worry, in the absolute worst case scenario, they might still come to pass in all sorts of unexpected ways. To reaffirm what @Rick pointed out earlier in the thread, leaving the EU is just the start of it.
Now, that's not to say that certain important changes in life and society aren't difficult or uncomfortable. But in this case? I'm a pragmatic person, and like @BarryZola had the pendulum had swung the other way, I did just bite my lip and get ready for the transition. But now, years on, I really could never be convinced that it would be worth it. I've gone from cautiously optimistic to baffled, then angry, and now I'm just exhausted. But I still don't think that's any reason to "just get on with" a decision of this magnitude.
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BarryZola
TS Member
Both sides lied about what would or wouldn't happen, just as all parties lie about what they're going to do when they get in power during a general election. You can't ever vote in these things knowing exactly what you're going to get whatever the result. However, the fact that we're a democracy means that you carry out the wishes of the electorate. You don't get to pick and choose which results you want to implement in these major votes. That's not how democracy works. By all means hold another vote in a decade or so after Brexit has been implemented and we've seen whether it's been a success or not. You don't just get to guess how it's going to work out and then pull the plug because you think it's not going to work as well as the status quo. If the people vote for a change then it should be change. And, we did, for better or for worse.