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2014: Family Developments

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Hmmm.. what about The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings?

Although not directly kid friendly, it is family friendly. Looking at the success that is WWOHP at Islands Of Adventure, and Disney following suit, is it unlikely that Merlin want to follow and try and get the same success at Alton Towers? The resort accommodation is obviously already heavily influenced by the Shire.

If done brilliantly an IP that big although expensive will make the money back especially since The Hobbit movies are being released in the upcoming years. Perfect time for advertising,

Perhaps I'm just being hopeful, but you have to admit the pieces are their! Whether Merlin/Alton piece them together is another matter!
 
Fredward said:
Hmmm.. what about The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings?

Although not directly kid friendly, it is family friendly. Looking at the success that is WWOHP at Islands Of Adventure, and Disney following suit, is it unlikely that Merlin want to follow and try and get the same success at Alton Towers? The resort accommodation is obviously already heavily influenced by the Shire.

If done brilliantly an IP that big although expensive will make the money back especially since The Hobbit movies are being released in the upcoming years. Perfect time for advertising,

Perhaps I'm just being hopeful, but you have to admit the pieces are their! Whether Merlin/Alton piece them together is another matter!
Click to expand...

I agree that would fit in perfectly at Alton Towers, but I don't think it's suited enough to the young children market - and also, that IP could be horribly expensive!
 
It's both exciting, worrying and disappointing that an IP will be used.

Exciting, because if done properly it could create an absolutely fantastic area for families and could be a truly magical experience and addition to the park... I have no idea what could be used as many parks already have most of the 'obvious' ones.

Worrying, because if done wrong it could ruin an area of the park for years to come. Look at Charlie... Loads of money spent on the IP and bugger all left for the ride. I'd be worried if a big IP was bought but the detail was not put into an area retheme... You just need to look at the state of the Dark Forest to see how poor re themes do not last!

Lastly it's disappointing that parks rely so much on IPs these days. However, kids and families are big business and original story lines don't cut it any more for those markets. Parents want to know that they'll see a reliable family favourite whilst kids want to go and see characters they already love rather than ones they need to get to know.

This development could be absolutely fantastic for Alton... But the skeptic in me is worried that it will be a complete mess and a shambles for years to come.
 
I'm thinking a Blue Sky Studios/20th Century Fox deal might be in place.

Considering we already have Ice Age surely that can open up all kinds of I.P deals?

They have alot of movies on their register, including:

Rio
Ice Age
Dr Seuss
The Chronicles of Narnia
Avatar (?)
 
I have a theory about attractions with IP's that its not the brand association that makes them commercially successful, but the higher level of quality that parks are required to maintain which brings visitors back again and again.

Take Efteling for example. They've not seen a drop in success and their family attractions are mostly in-house concepts, but are given the attention to detail, care, and investment required to make them truly magical and unique.
 
AstroDan said:
Fredward said:
Hmmm.. what about The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings?

Although not directly kid friendly, it is family friendly. Looking at the success that is WWOHP at Islands Of Adventure, and Disney following suit, is it unlikely that Merlin want to follow and try and get the same success at Alton Towers? The resort accommodation is obviously already heavily influenced by the Shire.

If done brilliantly an IP that big although expensive will make the money back especially since The Hobbit movies are being released in the upcoming years. Perfect time for advertising,

Perhaps I'm just being hopeful, but you have to admit the pieces are their! Whether Merlin/Alton piece them together is another matter!
Click to expand...

I agree that would fit in perfectly at Alton Towers, but I don't think it's suited enough to the young children market - and also, that IP could be horribly expensive!
Click to expand...


It would be expensive, but if done well it will make that money back in no time and bring in massive crowds to the park.

It won't suit with young children, no. Is there somewhere which mentions it will be for young kids and not just families?
 
I think it'll be something to do with the Hobbit. I think it will tie in with the aesthetic of the proposed Lodge's and simultaneously it's very popular and also very current with the movie coming out this year. It could also be expanded later with a LOTR themed area - I don't think there's one of those anywhere in the world yet either :)
 
I hope that if any area is rethemed, it's Adventureland. It is the area that was most recently redone but it was a pretty lazy theming effort and with the Beastie no longer in operation and the huge empty tent, I think it could do with another reboot as there's a lot of potential there and tons of room for improvement.

I think that with a children's section in a park, as long as you create a good area to begin with and keep it well enough maintained, there's not too much of a reason to change it substantially. In just a few years, children grow out of the area and move onto other areas of the park leaving the area for a new generation of kids

The farmyard and Story Book Land are brilliant kids' areas crying out to be restored to their former glory. Unfortunately, Alton's policy doesn't tend to be good maintenance. It's more theme an area, leave it to rot for decades, retheme and repeat. I don't trust Alton to be able to produce an adequate replacent for these areas in this day and age so I really hope that if Story Book Land and the Farmyard are touched, it's a slight update or refresh with maybe a sprinkling of IP to pull in the punters but nothing too major.

I'm not convinced that IP is absolutely necessary for a park. I'm not a huge fan of it and just because other parks are doing it doesn't always mean Alton should be. If it was done tastefully, I wouldn't mind too much but anything as blatant as Drayton's or Blackpool's latest additions I would hate forever.
 
I definetely think that this 2014 family development will tie in with the fantasy theme of the lodges in some shape or form.

I also think that 2014 will be very comparable to 1996, just like then it will be a year or two since the last major coaster was installed with the park wanting to keep the family balance right and expand as a resort. In terms of theming, think about how Storybook Land is similar to the Secret Garden Restaurant (like the trees with faces) both of which opened the same year and this shows how they have created links between the park and accommodation areas in the past which could be repeated effectively again.

A fantasy theme has huge potential and means the existing children's areas would require little more than refreshing and slight alterations. For example this could be done to link the theming of the farm and Storybook Land together as one. Spinball could then be left as a standalone attraction until it is removed or relocated nearer towards the end of the decade.

:)
 
To behonest the plans seem great the only thing I don't like is the retheme of the farm. For me it's superb and my son who is 1 loves it. I remember the farm when I was a kid and loved it then and now when we went for the fireworks my son loved it as well, I think sometimes fixing problems are better then a retheme if you look at charlie and toyland tours. But I can understand whey they may retheme as it creates spin and money
 
Meat Pie said:
I have a theory about attractions with IP's that its not the brand association that makes them commercially successful, but the higher level of quality that parks are required to maintain which brings visitors back again and again.

Take Efteling for example. They've not seen a drop in success and their family attractions are mostly in-house concepts, but are given the attention to detail, care, and investment required to make them truly magical and unique.
Click to expand...
That's half correct for sure but brand association does still have a lot to do with it. For other forms of media (films, books, games ect.) It has been proved that IP brands sell much better than new franchises, even if they are either terrible or simply cash-ins on the franchise.

Theme Parks are a bit more complex. The parks themselves definitely apply to this rule. Disney for example are in a whole league of their own when it comes to a global market but you won’t often see people (outside of enthusiasts) travelling the world to visit other parks. LEGOLAND is another example that simply wouldn’t have the pulling power if rebranded to Mega Bloks World.

The rides themselves are a bit more confusing because it’s very rare that someone will visit a park for just one ride/area. The Wizarding World is an example where this is the case. I’d also say Thomas Land is another example which wouldn’t have been anywhere near as popular if Drayton had chosen say a Chuggington Theme no matter how well executed.
And I hate to admit it but Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was a successful IP. When I first visited the park Toyland Tours was still around but I never rode it as from the description alone it sounded rather generic. But when they replaced it with Charlie I was genuinely interested in seeing that attraction. Of course then it turned out to be a pretty bad ride but as far as the people in charge were concerned it was successful as it was one of the rides that convinced me to visit. Not as successful as the likes of Nemesis which keeps getting us to go back over and over again but more so than something like Hex that most people only ride once and isn't as easy to market.
 
Meat Pie said:
I have a theory about attractions with IP's that its not the brand association that makes them commercially successful, but the higher level of quality that parks are required to maintain which brings visitors back again and again.

Take Efteling for example. They've not seen a drop in success and their family attractions are mostly in-house concepts, but are given the attention to detail, care, and investment required to make them truly magical and unique.
Click to expand...

Also Efteling is not the best example as the park itself is an IP in the Netherlands, its almost a Mecca for the people of Holland and most children visit as a matter of course. Essentially they could install a polished turd and still get visitors its that ingrained into the national conscious.

IP's do work and i think they work well for children's areas, i just hope Alton Towers pick an IP that is sympathetic to the park and not some huge American behemoth like Shrek was. Really its a shame Blackpool already has it but something like Wallace and Grommet would have been fantastic at Alton.

Essentially they need something quintessentially British and keep IP's away from the big rides. No park should depend completely on IP's for ideas (unless their park concept is geared that was such as a studios based park).
 
It's a shame Ice Age has already gone to CCL. It could have worked well as a joint area for Storybook Land and Adventure Land. Update the shells on Squirel Nutty so they have Scrat on the back, maybe add some audio to the vehicles, a few iciles and spray on frost on the trees, repaint Spinball an icey blue, with an ice pattern wraparound on each vehicle (Or remove it for all I care! :p ), 4D could have gone in the old ice tent if they'd done something with it, then have a new kiddie coaster put in where Beastie is. Add a couple of big Ice Age characters around the area, and job done!

Personally, I'd hope it's not an IP, as I always think it's more magical when parks come up with their own ideas for these areas (Like Wuze, and Efteling), rather than using a brand, but I'll be surprised if it isn't an IP.
 
I'm VERY excited for this development: 2014 overall is going to be a sensational year!

I too thought that The Hobbit is a very possible theme to tie in with not only the look of the new accommodation but also the upcoming film... Maybe with that quaint countryside style they would be able to keep the smattering of animals which the farm has?

As for a Spinball retheme, it'd be weird for the ride to have a 3rd reincarnation, but at least maybe this time it could possibly be made less of an eyesore! This will be an awesome development though, and utilising a prime area of the park which a lot of guests seriously overlook!

As for people's gripes with IPs, they are - for better or worse - the norm now in the industry and certainly as witnessed by the Ice Age theming can force the park to pull off something really quite impressive looking! Also, the park using IPs really isn't something new... As several of us were chatting about the other day, in the early days the park had a Rupert Bear attraction, and the sought-after Peter Rabbit ice show was obviously an IP, to name a few.

So excited to see how the ice tent's space gets used - so much potential :D
 
IP's work, but they have to match with the product. Take the Disney Parks and Universal Studios. Those parks would be no where near successful if they did not have IP's.

They work because people would love a certain world, to hear that world has been bought to life is magical. I bet most of the people excited for Wizarding world of Harry Potter couldn't give a damn about theme parks, they just want to experience the Harry Potter universe in real life and people flocked around the world to IOA to do just that.

IP's work because the brand, world and theme is already established in peoples minds, fan's of the theme will come to the attraction because they already love it.

This is the reason I'm pushing and wanting a lord of the rings/Hobbit IP. I adore the Shire, I love middle earth, it's my favourite collection of books and one of my most favoured universes.

I want a hobbit hole to sleep in! :p
 
Tim - If Parks made the IP attractions to the same low quality that Merlin creates their non-IP UK additions , then the appeal of said IP would only be very limited and interest would quickly fade. An IP is great for short-sited short term visitor number growth, but it's the quality of an attraction that cements it's success in the longer term.

Admittedly, if you installed a lesser known IP or no IP at all, then your short-term success is not going to be as great, but I think in the end, visitors are not so stupid that they would choose a lesser experience but with an expensive sticker over a high quality attraction created from in-house concepts.

Dave - I disagree with you about Efteling. That park has a fantastic reputation within the country due to their fantastic attention to detail and quality of product. If they started installing polished turds left, right and centre, then it wouldn't take long for all of that to unravel.

To a much lesser extent, Alton Towers was once held in fairly high esteem in this country but over the last decade, it has become more and more like a glorified fairground with cheap medium quality additions that simply don't have the quality that the visiting public deserve. The average person does notice these things and Alton Towers has lost it's reputation as an innovator and magical experience.


And another thing about IP's - I feel that it can really limit and constrain the possibilities available to the art-form. I believe we are still very much in the infancy of the experience based and theme park medium. Film as a medium has it's own qualities that make it appropriate for particular projects and no other form, whereas experiences have their own qualities that lends themselves to completely different projects, and it's that which I feel the industry should be trying to explore. I don't just want experiences which are just translated from other media, I want to see experiences that are built on ideas that only this medium could most effectively achieve.
 
I think most IPs will be done to a high standard, just look at Nick land and Thomas Land, both have been done to a high standard, even the paving, etc at Blackpool is very nice.

No good company would let a theme park design an area that is crap and looks cheap, as it will just affect your brand. So theme parks know this, which is why they will want to pay good money to get a themed area looking good.

Ice age this year is very good and is much more than I was expecting.
 
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