2019: General Discussion

[rob666]

School holidays are no longer an exact science.
Easter end of term break ran over five weeks...some kids were back at a school for a week before others broke up, even in the same towns.
Government no longer dictates school closure dates like it once did.
Scotland breaks up for the summer two or three weeks before the rest of the UK, and generally goes back mid august.
Closing at 4 or 5 is all part of the cheap pass policy...what do you expect for fifty quid.
If you want more than the basics, get your money out.

 

[delta79]

I do wonder how many are going to be upset by the summer holiday restriction on the season pass.

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[Steve74]

I do wonder how many are going to be upset by the summer holiday restriction on the season pass.

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It's no different to the pass last year. If it was a big issue last year I doubt they'd have had the same restrictions this year. Besides, it doesn't ban you from going, only that you can't get in 'for free' on the day. I think you either get in for around £10 or have to pay normal prices?

 

[AT86]

It's no different to the pass last year. If it was a big issue last year I doubt they'd have had the same restrictions this year. Besides, it doesn't ban you from going, only that you can't get in 'for free' on the day. I think you either get in for around £10 or have to pay normal prices?

It’s £10 to enter the park on a blockout date.

 

[yoursilentface]

Think you can upgrade to the £70 pass which has no restrictions

 

[bluesonichd]

Upgrade To the premium towers pass and get a free season digi pass too

 

[Skyscraper]

Upgrade To the premium towers pass and get a free season digi pass too

I thought that offer had ended now?

 

[Matt.GC]

I was on park yesterday and it was a pathetic show. The rides where mostly running well until the disaster towards closing, but the park was packed. Easily dealt with in years gone by but not yesterday.

First off, the monorail queue is simply unacceptable. How can they operate like that? Just let people wait on the platform like any other normal train station on earth!

Couldn't go on the rapids, way too slow loading and it's looking more pathetic than ever. Nemesis and Air dealing with long queues well but the area really misses support rides, even Blade had a queue. Same story in DF and XS, both areas in desperate need of support attractions. Dungeons area was really quiet and seems to look worse the more I look at it. Was the quietest part of the park as well and was completely deserted, who has time to waste in there when the park is busy and you're being turfed out in a few hours?

CCL was full of queues and the area is just an embarrassing corner of the park. Where's the family dark rides, play area, 4d cinema etc? The families would have lapped it all up yesterday with the changeable weather. Driving school was operated poorly with around half the cars out of action, even Gallopers and Frog Hopper couldn't soak up the excess family crowds. Meanwhile, Wave Swinger sat rotting away behind a wooden fence in the corner.

Having queued to get in on Farley Lane and seeing so many rides out of action in the latter part of the day, I was certain that ride close would be extended. How wrong I was! Some ride ops clearly where expecting this, as they allowed us a last few rides on Galactica and Nemesis after 5pm. But watching the massive crowds descending on the car park in the beautiful sunshine at 17:30, something felt very wrong, like everyone had had just half a day.

This business strategy of flogging dirt cheap season passes and gate entry and cramming them in is clearly hitting the park hard. There's few returns from entry to reinvest in the place and I really wish they would rethink this cheap and cheerful strategy.

There were clearly large holes in the ride lineup and entertainment yesterday and 7pm should have been the standard close for that level of crowd on bright summer evenings. The problem is, the only way the park can achieve those crowds is through heavy discounting, which means it's not generating the revenue to be able to host them properly.

 

[AT86]

Online pre-booked tickets have increased by £1. They are now £34 for adults and £28.50 for children.

Also, the theme park and Dungeons combi ticket seems to have been taken off sale. The online booking system doesn’t even try and upsell you a Dungeons ticket (unlike the upsells that pop up for fastrack, food and photos).

Gate price is still the same.

 

[venny]

I was on park yesterday and it was a pathetic show. The rides where mostly running well until the disaster towards closing, but the park was packed. Easily dealt with in years gone by but not yesterday.

First off, the monorail queue is simply unacceptable. How can they operate like that? Just let people wait on the platform like any other normal train station on earth!

Couldn't go on the rapids, way too slow loading and it's looking more pathetic than ever. Nemesis and Air dealing with long queues well but the area really misses support rides, even Blade had a queue. Same story in DF and XS, both areas in desperate need of support attractions. Dungeons area was really quiet and seems to look worse the more I look at it. Was the quietest part of the park as well and was completely deserted, who has time to waste in there when the park is busy and you're being turfed out in a few hours?

CCL was full of queues and the area is just an embarrassing corner of the park. Where's the family dark rides, play area, 4d cinema etc? The families would have lapped it all up yesterday with the changeable weather. Driving school was operated poorly with around half the cars out of action, even Gallopers and Frog Hopper couldn't soak up the excess family crowds. Meanwhile, Wave Swinger sat rotting away behind a wooden fence in the corner.

Having queued to get in on Farley Lane and seeing so many rides out of action in the latter part of the day, I was certain that ride close would be extended. How wrong I was! Some ride ops clearly where expecting this, as they allowed us a last few rides on Galactica and Nemesis after 5pm. But watching the massive crowds descending on the car park in the beautiful sunshine at 17:30, something felt very wrong, like everyone had had just half a day.

This business strategy of flogging dirt cheap season passes and gate entry and cramming them in is clearly hitting the park hard. There's few returns from entry to reinvest in the place and I really wish they would rethink this cheap and cheerful strategy.

There were clearly large holes in the ride lineup and entertainment yesterday and 7pm should have been the standard close for that level of crowd on bright summer evenings. The problem is, the only way the park can achieve those crowds is through heavy discounting, which means it's not generating the revenue to be able to host them properly.

This is spot on. I’ve said it before, but the short sighted devaluing of the product is good for no one other than meeting short term targets. A busy park no longer means a profitable park. It does mean longer queues for attractions, food and the car park. In turn that means reduced guest satisfaction, albeit that’s offset by those visitors who have visited “free” because they have a pass. It certainly means less revenue to reinvest.

It’s a dangerous spiral downwards that has parallels to 2000s Six Flags.

 

[Rick]

It’s a dangerous spiral downwards that has parallels to 2000s Six Flags.

I think aspects of it are similar, but when you dig deeper it's a bit of a lazy comparison.

During that period Six Flags were offering season passes for $35 and being utterly hopeless when it came to secondary spend - they didn't have hotels, a number of their parks are located next to a ton of food options so people weren't spending. They essentially became babysitters.

Alongside, the company was buying ride hardware at an entirely unsustainable rate. They put $60m of coasters into SFWoA in the space of two seasons, plus another $50m on other rides at the same time, whilst at the same time spent they spent $110m doubling the size of the park. Three years later they sold the whole thing for $145m.

Plus, revenue was in the gutter. That's not true in the numbers we've seen in Merlin's RTP division.

 

[Kraken27]

School holidays are no longer an exact science.
Easter end of term break ran over five weeks...some kids were back at a school for a week before others broke up, even in the same towns.
Government no longer dictates school closure dates like it once did.

I think that May Half Term is the one school holiday in England that is always the same everywhere, as we are in GCSE / A Level exam season. All schools take the week that starts with the Late May Bank Holiday / Spring Bank Holiday / Whit Monday Holiday (call it what you will). This ensures that exam boards can set dates & times for exams safe in the knowledge that all schools will be "in" as long as they avoid this one week.

If this is still the case - the fact that Merlin / Towers consider a 5pm ride close appropriate on a week when every school in England is on holiday shows what a joke they are at running theme parks. (This is before the lack of an extension to ride close due to lots of downtime).

Merlin only want the guests money, end of. If the guests happen to think they've had a good day & return, then it's a bonus. If the guests buy Fastracks so they can actually get on everything, it's a bonus. If they have an average / mediocre day, then fine, we've had their money, the accountants & shareholders are happy.

 

[Rick]

Merlin only want the guests money, end of. If the guests happen to think they've had a good day & return, then it's a bonus. If the guests buy Fastracks so they can actually get on everything, it's a bonus. If they have an average / mediocre day, then fine, we've had their money, the accountants & shareholders are happy.

But the shareholders aren't happy. Look at the unit price. Read the analyst reviews. No one is happy.

Your own analysis is simplistic drivel too. Creating attractions that people are indifferent about isn't good for guests which in turn isn't good for business, which in turn isn't good for shareholders.

A restaurateur could do the equivalent of what you suggest, how does that help his or her business or those backing the venture? Out of date ingredients, surly staff and a freezing cold restaurant. No one wins.


I admit Legoland has its problems this season, but the suggestion that Merlin aren't going to work to address that I don't buy.

 

[ChristmasPud]

I admit Legoland has its problems this season, but the suggestion that Merlin aren't going to work to address that I don't buy.

Ok, I think some of their actions do show they're starting to take notice yes. But are they going to spend any real money or put genuinely useful procedures in place, or skirt around the root problems as usual? Doing anything but spending money where it needs it?

In terms of mediocrity of their development, why do they have such marketing strategies and approval processes that ensure every remotely 'unusual' idea is ironed out, and budgets cut on anything but the basics, hence we consistently end up with mediocrity. Bar Wicker Man, which was a slight gamble on their marketing policies and turned out really well.

Then there's the mediocrity of their operations, which can be put to a number of factors I guess, all their responsibility. Like paying minimum wage for jobs that should require some level of motivation and skill to get high throughputs safely. Or good training that teaches you how to run rides, rather than their usual 'read this booklet for 48 hours and don't get fired' approach.

Not necessarily easy, but squarely in their control

 

[Ollie]

The way Legoland is getting absolutely hammered on TripAdvisor and social media is enough of an incentive for Merlin to get their act together.

The online feedback for Alton Towers is still more on the positive side, even if when you look below the surface there are clearly problems being frequently raised.

It’s concerning that the park no longer has the capacity to meet demand at peak times.

 

[Tibble]

The difference between AT and say Universal is the wow factor.

AT could be brilliant if they just invested a bit of money in making filler rides (flat rides, family rides). Not everything has to be a SW and have millions spent on it.

When I went to florida, I have thought about it every day since for the past 8 months and about how great it was. Some will say they have better weather which means the parks can have more outside events and parades, but I firmly believe if merlin invested in the ambience, a few filler rides and made it feel special again they would see numbers rise and more spent.

Rather than SW9 and a load of marketing around it.

It seems as if they don't know the phrase "you have to speculate to accumulate"

 

[Doublethink]

The difference between AT and say Universal is the wow factor.

AT could be brilliant if they just invested a bit of money in making filler rides (flat rides, family rides). Not everything has to be a SW and have millions spent on it.

When I went to florida, I have thought about it every day since for the past 8 months and about how great it was. Some will say they have better weather which means the parks can have more outside events and parades, but I firmly believe if merlin invested in the ambience, a few filler rides and made it feel special again they would see numbers rise and more spent.

Rather than SW9 and a load of marketing around it.

It seems as if they don't know the phrase "you have to speculate to accumulate"

Having just come back from florida I fully agree with you, in fact universal and Disney usualy only have 1 or 2 large coasters per park but there is so much more to do than AT which has 6! Only park I really felt was 1 day out at Disney was Hollywood Studios we spent at least 2 at the rest.

Furthermore though the coasters out in the florida parks were fantastic (Mako, Montu, Space Mountain and Everest being the highlight) my favorite memories of the trips were the brilliant shows (Festival of Lion King, Journey of the Little Mermaid, One Ocean, Holywood Horror Makeup) and other innovate attractions (Flight Of Passage, Toy Story Mania, Forbiden Journey).

 

[Dave]

But the shareholders aren't happy. Look at the unit price. Read the analyst reviews. No one is happy.

Your own analysis is simplistic drivel too. Creating attractions that people are indifferent about isn't good for guests which in turn isn't good for business, which in turn isn't good for shareholders.

A restaurateur could do the equivalent of what you suggest, how does that help his or her business or those backing the venture? Out of date ingredients, surly staff and a freezing cold restaurant. No one wins.


I admit Legoland has its problems this season, but the suggestion that Merlin aren't going to work to address that I don't buy.

They haven’t worked to address any of the previous seasons problems and investor analysist reviewers have been hovering on “sell” for nearly a year.

I would suspect the early closing this school holiday is compensating for the poor 2nd week of Easter when the weather was bad. They only have so many operating hours budget to spend in the season and probably want to keep some back for the summer.

It’s a shame but Merlin won’t change. They will budget an operating spend in March for the year and that’s what the parks have to play with.

 

[Tibble]

Having just come back from florida I fully agree with you, in fact universal and Disney usualy only have 1 or 2 large coasters per park but there is so much more to do than AT which has 6! Only park I really felt was 1 day out at Disney was Hollywood Studios we spent at least 2 at the rest.

Furthermore though the coasters out in the florida parks were fantastic (Mako, Montu, Space Mountain and Everest being the highlight) my favorite memories of the trips were the brilliant shows (Festival of Lion King, Journey of the Little Mermaid, One Ocean, Holywood Horror Makeup) and other innovate attractions (Flight Of Passage, Toy Story Mania, Forbiden Journey).

I think something like the Hollywood Tower of Terror could easily be replicated at AT, with a similar tower theme, The towers are haunted and you are part of the investigation team.

But even stuff like Duel could be improved by using screen elements, in comparison to say the MIB ride duel looks so dated

 

[Matt.GC]

I think Merlin have painted Towers into a corner. They're furiously building extra accommodation as it's one of the few things that can be measured to get a guaranteed return on investment. But this won't work forever and shareholders know it.

I fully understand the logic behind the season passes - launch a new coaster, put the past behind, regain trust lost after the incident. It's clearly worked, but what do they do now?

They can't invest heavily in the park, it would take ages to get that money back and is a big gamble and would never get shareholder approval. They can't get out of the heavy discountibg cycle either as that would effect volume too much. So they're stuck in this kind of trap where people are turning up but paying so little to do so and very little to entice them back next season or stay overnight.

I think Valueact where absolutely right when they said Merlin was floated too soon. The business needs to invest to grow. But let's face it, if you were a shareholder and were told £100million of CAPEX was being invested into Towers and a loosening of the OPEX budgets for the next few seasons with the very long term goal of repositioning the product, you wouldn't be happy. The shadows of the Swarm, NST, DBGT etc will always linger over any big investment decisions so it's far easier to just whack some cheap sheds in a field, sell heavily discounted season passes and buy a popular IP to cover an older attraction with as its less risky and less capital intensive. Problem is, it's not sustainable.