2020: General Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Danny, 20th Nov 2019.

  1. Islander

    Islander TowersStreet Member

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    Worth pointing out that there's a thread specifically for what changes to operations are likely following COVID-19, here.
     
  2. spinba11

    spinba11 TowersStreet Member

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    Smiler needs 8.
     
  3. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    13’s trims are not speed sensitive. The 1st drop trims are either switched on or off. This is via a panel in the op cabin. The trims have to be on with guests (there are a set of optical sensors at head height on the station exit that detect if passengers are in the train, I don’t know if that automatically activated the trims or just alarms if the trims are off).

    It was a bit of a post build botch job.
     
  4. imanautie

    imanautie TowersStreet Member

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    So crappy control system design basically?

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
     
  5. spinba11

    spinba11 TowersStreet Member

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    Has the sticky up bit on the front car got anything to do with the sensor, the indentation in it looks like it’s the same height as the sensor.
     
  6. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    My understanding is it was crappy track design, the issues were exacerbated by trying to have as light a train as possible for the drop system. This meant the passenger load was a greater percentage of the total train weight when compared to more traditional coasters, so guest load had a bigger overall effect on the train speed.

    A fully laden train ran too fast, not sure if the speed was an issue for guest safety or if it meant the ride hit the 2nd lift hill too hard and fast. They then added fixed trims to the first drop which fixed the overspending on a full train but now the train stalled when empty. Therefore opening season the train had to be filled with sand bags when running empty.

    Either one or two seasons in they added the moveable trim on the first drop so it could engage with a full train or turn off for an empty train and avoid the need for sand bags.

    Always been curious what the overspeed issue was. Intamin are capable of adaptive trims, one theory is the speed issue is on the helix at the bottom of the first drop and the only place with a straight enough section they could trim was on the drop, which was too soon for a proper speed calculation to adaptive trim (if you watch the Smiler it assesses the speed on the inversion prior to the trims, you can see the pair of sensors and as the train passes them the trims drop depending on speed). If the issue on thirteen was the second lift hill then surely they could trim on the first bunny hop as a speed check could happen on the Helix and trim adaptive? That’s just speculation on my part though.
     
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  7. spinba11

    spinba11 TowersStreet Member

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    I’m sure there are 2 trims on 13 but can’t be sure where the other one is.
     
  8. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    There is a second set after bunny hill 1, there used to be fixed trims on hill 2 but these where removed I think.

    just curious that there are better places to trim than the 1st drop if the total problem is not until the 2nd lift but it’s probably just some tech issues we are not aware of.
     
  9. Matt N

    Matt N TowersStreet Member

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    Ah right; thanks for the clarification @Dave!
     
  10. Islander

    Islander TowersStreet Member

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    Nope, we had confirmation during the original enthusiast event that the candle-stick-thingy is purely 100% decorative
     
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  11. spinba11

    spinba11 TowersStreet Member

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    That’s my wild theory down the drain then.
     
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  12. Kraken27

    Kraken27 TowersStreet Member

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    Given the events on The Smiler, I cannot see Merlin having much (if anything) left to chance on a ride control system.

    If the station exit sensors on Thirteen detect heads at riders height on the trains, it will not just "alarm" the operator. It will either automatically deploy the trim brakes, or engage a ride-stop with the train on the lift. If the latter, a re-start should be impossible without an electrical interlock to confirm the trim brakes are activated.

    Remember, Mr Varney introduced enhanced protocols "on top of our already high levels of safety" after The Smiler. No way would you leave anything to chance.
     
  13. imanautie

    imanautie TowersStreet Member

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    Protocols != System changes.


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  14. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    I have no firm knowledge on that. The system was implemented prior to the Smiler incident. Most of the new protocols post Smiler incident where staff instruction and more enabling steps before a ride restart. That said it’s perfectly possible the system
    Is automatic.

    anyway this is getting a trifle off topic.
     
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  15. Josh

    Josh TowersStreet Member

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    The sensor at the station exit is meant for automatically retracting the trims if no riders are detected on the train, to prevent it stalling. That way it doesn't put the emphasis on the operator remembering to put the ride in override mode every time they may randomly need to send an empty train.

    It also works the other way though if the trim override is activated for sending constant empty trains, if a rider is detected it'll automatically stop the train at the base of lift 1.

    I believe that's how it works anyway
     
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  16. OilyWater

    OilyWater TowersStreet Member

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    No rides will ever leave anything "down to chance" before or after Smiler and the only thing wrong before the Smiler was the park's own approach to risk assessment and training. A sensor system doesnt mean it's left to chance, the trim not really a safety critical part of the ride after all
     
  17. Islander

    Islander TowersStreet Member

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    Think this is the important bit - looking at a risk analysis, the trim is not indeed safety critical. If it's up when an empty train is dispatched, the train could stall, but that in and of itself is not unsafe - the unsafe condition would be if another train was then dispatched into the back of this stalled train, which (without human intervention) would never be allowed by the blocking system - the safety critical part.
     
  18. spinba11

    spinba11 TowersStreet Member

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    What’s the default position of the trims on 13? I’m assuming is on.
     
  19. AstroDan

    AstroDan TS Forum Team Team Member

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    They are on permanently to avoid the entire ride self destructing.

    Personally I would turn them off.
     
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  20. BeccaH

    BeccaH TowersStreet Member

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    Sorry to change topic (I know very little about technical stuff haha) but now that it's been confirmed that theme parks won't open til July sort of time, what do we think will happen with season passes?
     

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