2021: General Discussion

[Danny]

Well you clearly haven't been monitoring the queues then as the queues today have definitely been shorter than during the week

Sitting at a desk at home/school constantly refreshing the queue times with a hard-on through the week, and being there in person is totally different.

A visit yesterday confirmed they are totally unable to get queue times correct at the moment, with many vastly over-inflated and some heavily underestimated. If they can't get queue times correct when they're staffed on a weekend, then they certainly won't be focusing on it during the mid-week when they're running at full pelt with half the staff.

 

[Steve74]

...and they have not got enough staff rota'd in to cope with the increased demand.

And in my opinion that is one of the main reasons why they don't always extend park hours on sunny days - it's not because they don't want to, but because they can't. And as I'm sure you'll agree Kraken27 based on your experience, a 6hr park opening is often more like a 7 or 8 hour day for staff so extending park hours isn't as easy as you might think because of overtime, rotas, required legal breaks between shifts etc.

 

[Ils]

Out of interest , what were your average queue times for fast track rides with you having gold fast track? I’m going on 29th June which is currently a 4pm close and I don’t expect it to be busy, although I’m definitely not expecting those glorious mid week September crowd levels that mean you can walk on everything. Just trying to gauge whether it’s worth buying a couple of one shot fast tracks for the most popular rides so it gives us maximum ride time for everything else on the basis of a 4pm close

Wickerman was on 45 min queue and we were on in 5 mins. Smiler was on a 70 min queue and we were on in 10.

Thirteen was on 60 min queue and we were on in 5.
Rita was on 50 mins and Wife and Son were on in 5 mins. We used our FP for Nemesis just after it had broken down and we were on in 15 mins, but can't remember what the queue time was.

We had already done Thirteen and Wicker Man in the morning and then utilised the fastpasses in the afternoon when it was busier.

Too be honest if I had to buy a one of fast pass for any ride it would be Smiler as the thought of listening to that soundtrack for an hour would drive me insane.

 

[George W]

Out of interest , what were your average queue times for fast track rides with you having gold fast track? I’m going on 29th June which is currently a 4pm close and I don’t expect it to be busy, although I’m definitely not expecting those glorious mid week September crowd levels that mean you can walk on everything. Just trying to gauge whether it’s worth buying a couple of one shot fast tracks for the most popular rides so it gives us maximum ride time for everything else on the basis of a 4pm close

I was there on the 12th which was a very busy Saturday and I had platinum and there was not much fast track queue at all, longest was 5 or 10 minutes for oblivion, most were walk on besides some rides where you have a 5-10 minute merge point.

 

[Rob]

I visited Alton Towers for the first time since Fireworks 2019 yesterday; here are a few thoughts:

• Overall it was a super day, the park did not feel too busy but there was a good atmosphere which was enhanced by the various Madri Gras theming and entertainment
• On the whole operations were fantastic. Both Nemesis and Wicker Man were banging out the trains. We waited 20 minutes for Wicker Man in the middle of the day which for me is unheard of!
• The only coaster where there was a problem throught the day was Thirteen. At one point it was showing as a 120 minute queue whereas Wicker Man had a 5 minute queue. Needless to say Thirteen was the only coaster (other than Octonauts that we did not ride)
• The new flats, albeit temporary, do enhance the areas they are in and it is great to have more ride options
• I was very impressed with the efficient and well set up park entry procedures, as well as the other Covid measures around the park
• 8pm ride close was probably not totally neceassy yesterday, 7pm would have been fine, but it was so nice to have a day at Towers where you felt no need to rush around
• You can tell that the new Walliams area has been done on the cheap, but at least it is busier there now and it feels like something is going on. Gangsta Granny is fine for what it is and I can imagine kids will really enjoy it
• Woodcutters was pretty good, including the service. But very slow in Just Chicken towards the end of the day despite there not being any queue

For £27.50 (MAP friends and family price) I would say I got more than value for money!

 

[Ethan]

Sitting at a desk at home/school constantly refreshing the queue times with a hard-on through the week, and being there in person is totally different.

A visit yesterday confirmed they are totally unable to get queue times correct at the moment, with many vastly over-inflated and some heavily underestimated. If they can't get queue times correct when they're staffed on a weekend, then they certainly won't be focusing on it during the mid-week when they're running at full pelt with half the staff.

Well the queues were fairly accurate today. Its normally the same rides that are overstated so I know what to expect. The smiler is never accurate, it's always more

 

[tayspru]

Well the queues were fairly accurate today. Its normally the same rides that are overstated so I know what to expect. The smiler is never accurate, it's always more

Your experience isn’t the definitive experience Ethan, you seem completely incapable of grasping that , yet very quick to present your own opinion is an inalienable fact. Maybe log off the app when you’re not at the park?

 

[Ethan]

Your experience isn’t the definitive experience Ethan, you seem completely incapable of grasping that , yet very quick to present your own opinion is an inalienable fact. Maybe log off the app when you’re not at the park?

I've been several several times this year, and all experiences have been the same. Its always the same rides overstated and the same rides understated so why would that be any different to when I'm not there

 

[Danny]

Well the queues were fairly accurate today. Its normally the same rides that are overstated so I know what to expect. The smiler is never accurate, it's always more

The Smiler was advertised as 20 minutes at one point yesterday.

@John, @Dan and myself walked on. I wouldn't say it's always more?

 

[Loui Richards]

bit of a pointless argument

 

[IanB]

We had a very enjoyable Sunday as well. Expected rain, but while a little cold in the morning, it was perfect theme park weather.

When Thirteen opened, the back three rows had the test dummy's in, but was only a 15 minute queue when we went on it. Annabelle manged to get on the front and back so she was happy.

She also managed to get on Wickerman three times, again managing to go at the front and back. At the end of the day it was walk on, so as Rob said the 8pm close was probably not required, although it did make it a more casual day, and traffic leaving at the end was not an issue. I think Annabelle is excited to go on the bigger rides now, but has a long way to go until she hits 1.4m, so I think a trip to Blackpool and getting her on Icon might be the next park we visit.

The Mardi Gras event was great, and gave the park that extra bit of energy. We did not manage to watch the main show, but we watched (and took part) in the mini show in Forbidden Valley while we had lunch. Annabelle was crowned the best dancer in Forbidden Valley which made her smile.

We used the Adults go free deal, so only paid £22 each. I just wish there was a little bit more for Daisy to do, but it did mean when we were going for a walk while the others enjoyed Duel, we bumped in to some friends, which was a good. All it needs is some climbing frames and slides, and they have something to keep them busy while waiting for others to do the ride. This is the one thing that plays on my mind, when thinking about how good the day was and would I recommend someone to go to Alton Towers over a different park.

When we went to CBeebies land, Annabelle and her Friend did not want to do the rides anymore, although we did get them on the Go-Jetters. All the rides were 5-10 minutes walk on, except In The Night Garden, which was 45 minutes, and one we skipped.

I had such low expectations for Gansta Granny, but I was really impressed with it. It was a lot of fun, and did not feel that short. It is not worth an 80-90 minute queue, but the 30 minutes we queued was fine. It remained me a little of the Spiderman ride at Universal, but aimed at kids. The ride itself feels really high quality but the rest of the area is lacking. The entertainment staff in the area were great, and made the area a lot more fun.

 

[Kraken27]

And in my opinion that is one of the main reasons why they don't always extend park hours on sunny days - it's not because they don't want to, but because they can't. And as I'm sure you'll agree Kraken27 based on your experience, a 6hr park opening is often more like a 7 or 8 hour day for staff so extending park hours isn't as easy as you might think because of overtime, rotas, required legal breaks between shifts etc.

Based on my days at Towers - the main "restriction" on extending park hours was the requirement to notify the staff transport provider (think it was Bassetts back then) of the change by 1pm.

Overtime - no seasonal staff got it (& bet they still don't), you were on a flat hourly rate irrespective of a 6hr day, or 13hr day at Fireworks. (Suspect the Team Leaders had a "you will work x hrs in a 28 day period" clause in their contracts so they could be messed around too). The only "bonus" for a 12hr day at Fireworks was a meal voucher for a free meal in Magic HQ [as it was].

Breaks - Towers are very generous here. On the rides, it was 2hrs "on", 30mins "off" on break, so on a normal day you got at least 90mins of break time. At Fireworks they would extend one of your breaks to 45mins to allow you to comfortably utilise the MHQ meal voucher.

Breaks between shifts - a grey area. I suspect Towers would [successfully] argue most of their staff are not shift workers. To me, shift working is a rota'd pattern that follows a certain recurring logic. i.e. 3 days on "days", 2 days off, then 3 days on "nights" etc. Long days do not count as shifts. There was some legislation [in the early 2000's] that limited the number of hours you could work in a certain number of consecutive days. This normally caught out the Team Leaders pre-season who had been doing long hours to prepare the new staff / team for the start fo season. I remember one year one TL was forced to take the last two days before the park opened off as rest days as he was on "high hours".

The staff rotas for each area used to be issued on a weekly basis, a week in advance. The big problem with trying to alter them after issue is that people make plans based around working hours / days.

 

[Skyscraper]

The staff rotas for each area used to be issued on a weekly basis, a week in advance. The big problem with trying to alter them after issue is that people make plans based around working hours / days.

I have a friend who works on the parking and turnstiles team and I'm sure he gets his rotas a week in advance.

 

[Matt.GC]

Getting a rota anything after 3 weeks in advance is considered pretty poor employment practices these days

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[WickerwomanH]

Getting a rota anything after 3 weeks in advance is considered pretty poor employment practices these days

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I don't think I've ever had a job where I got it that far in advance other than when I was bank staff in a care home and chose my own hours based on when they were short. Other than that I've had 5 other jobs where we would only find out a week in advance maximum, sometimes it'd be the day before. I thought reading @Kraken27 's post about the towers break policy made my past jobs look bad, but apparently it gets worse hahaha

 

[Matt.GC]

I don't think I've ever had a job where I got it that far in advance other than when I was bank staff in a care home and chose my own hours based on when they were short. Other than that I've had 5 other jobs where we would only find out a week in advance maximum, sometimes it'd be the day before. I thought reading @Kraken27 's post about the towers break policy made my past jobs look bad, but apparently it gets worse hahaha

I give my staff 3-4 weeks in advance. It's written into their t&C's that they'll get a minimum of 2. We do change these from time to time around the business needs, but I always ask first. As they are given the courtesy of getting rotas in advance it means they're more inclined to help us out and change at short notice. When you have a team working early mornings, late into the night and weekends, I think their ability to be able to plan things for their time off is incredibly important

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[WickerwomanH]

I give my staff 3-4 weeks in advance. It's written into their t&C's that they'll get a minimum of 2. We do change these from time to time around the business needs, but I always ask first. As they are given the courtesy of getting rotas in advance it means they're more inclined to help us out and change at short notice. When you have a team working early mornings, late into the night and weekends, I think their ability to be able to plan things for their time off is incredibly important

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I wish I had bosses that were as considerate!

 

[pluk]

I get three months I advance for shift pattern changes! But then my underlying shift is (literally, over time) a killer.

The issue seems to be they don't have any buffer for issues. They plan for the absolute minimum resources possible then if anything changes late on with gate figure or sickness they are screwed. A false economy. They need to build in a resilience.

 

[AstroDan]

It's important to note Alton are seriously stretched at present in terms of staffing. I'm hopeful the recruitment drive currently underway will give them a buffer for summer.

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[Dave]

Based on my days at Towers - the main "restriction" on extending park hours was the requirement to notify the staff transport provider (think it was Bassetts back then) of the change by 1pm.

Overtime - no seasonal staff got it (& bet they still don't), you were on a flat hourly rate irrespective of a 6hr day, or 13hr day at Fireworks. (Suspect the Team Leaders had a "you will work x hrs in a 28 day period" clause in their contracts so they could be messed around too). The only "bonus" for a 12hr day at Fireworks was a meal voucher for a free meal in Magic HQ [as it was].

Breaks - Towers are very generous here. On the rides, it was 2hrs "on", 30mins "off" on break, so on a normal day you got at least 90mins of break time. At Fireworks they would extend one of your breaks to 45mins to allow you to comfortably utilise the MHQ meal voucher.

Breaks between shifts - a grey area. I suspect Towers would [successfully] argue most of their staff are not shift workers. To me, shift working is a rota'd pattern that follows a certain recurring logic. i.e. 3 days on "days", 2 days off, then 3 days on "nights" etc. Long days do not count as shifts. There was some legislation [in the early 2000's] that limited the number of hours you could work in a certain number of consecutive days. This normally caught out the Team Leaders pre-season who had been doing long hours to prepare the new staff / team for the start fo season. I remember one year one TL was forced to take the last two days before the park opened off as rest days as he was on "high hours".

The staff rotas for each area used to be issued on a weekly basis, a week in advance. The big problem with trying to alter them after issue is that people make plans based around working hours / days.

Seasonal staff will have been paid overtime or given the time back (overtime doesn’t have to be at a higher rate but people are not allowed to work extra hours for free).

Breaks between shifts are legally required, must be 11hrs minimum. Also the maximum working week is 60hrs.

That’s obviously assuming you worked there post WTD