[2023] The Curse at Alton Manor

[Benjsh]

I don’t think the dollhouse is “rumours” as such one person pontificating on stock teaser footage that maybe a few hundred people actually saw

Perhaps not but it's definitely the best guess we have so far given the clues.

'It's my house' doesn't leave that many options really and obviously the dollhouse was integral to the old attraction queue line. I think it's very likely to be integral to whatever is coming.

The short sneak peak footage you speak of certainly hints at that too. You can clearly see some kind of mechanical dummy that wouldnt look out of place in a Tim Burton film.

 

[RIPCorky]

Just gimmie a new actual moving trommel, none of this lacklustre projection stuff!! Yeah, it'd be cheaper to run, but when that projector is not working and switched off, it'll ruin ye entire scene looking at a white plain tunnel. Though it'd be nice if they kept the Mirror Eyes, those were cool when they were red! New face, but keep the eyes!

I doubt they can do much for the scene apart from another trommel. They'd have to full up the dug in space where the drum parshly resides. If they'll just cover it up and put props over, that'll be a huge hazard of props, and staff falling through the floor. So they'll have to fill it up with concrete, but to do that, they'll probably have to rip a hole in the showbulding to get proper clear access to continue the filling of the dug in area. Lets not forget that they only have around 3ish months left. So maybe they've ripped out most or what they want out now, and they'll want to start installing the new scenes in.

Think the ride as we knew it will soon become history I'm afraid.

Who knows, they may make a decent job of it.....

 

[Matt.GC]

Just gimmie a new actual moving trommel, none of this lacklustre projection stuff!! Yeah, it'd be cheaper to run, but when that projector is not working and switched off, it'll ruin ye entire scene looking at a white plain tunnel. Though it'd be nice if they kept the Mirror Eyes, those were cool when they were red! New face, but keep the eyes!

I doubt they can do much for the scene apart from another trommel. They'd have to full up the dug in space where the drum parshly resides. If they'll just cover it up and put props over, that'll be a huge hazard of props, and staff falling through the floor. So they'll have to fill it up with concrete, but to do that, they'll probably have to rip a hole in the showbulding to get proper clear access to continue the filling of the dug in area. Lets not forget that they only have around 3ish months left. So maybe they've ripped out most or what they want out now, and they'll want to start installing the new scenes in.

Or perhaps they're just putting a new scene in? You seem to constantly be coming from the starting point of them just tarting up the existing ride when there every possibility at this point that they're redoing most of it.

Removing or covering the trommel is not a big job. Unless you've had serious problems with the floorboards in your house(?), I don't think a few nailed down flat chip boards will cause anyone to "fall through the floor".

 

[RIPCorky]

Or perhaps they're just putting a new scene in? You seem to constantly be coming from the starting point of them just tarting up the existing ride when there every possibility at this point that they're redoing most of it.

Removing or covering the trommel is not a big job. Unless you've had serious problems with the floorboards in your house(?), I don't think a few nailed down flat chip boards will cause anyone to "fall through the floor".

Not really sure what they can put in that space that isn't a spinning tunnel?

Was a really cool effect when it worked...

 

[Trooper Looper]

Or perhaps they're just putting a new scene in? You seem to constantly be coming from the starting point of them just tarting up the existing ride when there every possibility at this point that they're redoing most of it.

Removing or covering the trommel is not a big job. Unless you've had serious problems with the floorboards in your house(?), I don't think a few nailed down flat chip boards will cause anyone to "fall through the floor".

I'm just saying, since this is Merlin, when have they made a proper improvement over their dark rides outside of Tomb blasters 2020 refurb. All the other previous dark rides were pretty much superior to their replacement, well to me anyway.

 

[Matt N]

I did have one thought.

People say that they’ve “only got 3 months left”, but; has it ever been expressly confirmed that the ride is reopening in March 2023? Isn’t it a possibility, however remote, that the ride may reopen later in the season? Which would mean that they’d have longer to do the refurb.

 

[Trooper Looper]

I did have one thought.

People say that they’ve “only got 3 months left”, but; has it ever been expressly confirmed that the ride is reopening in March 2023? Isn’t it a possibility, however remote, that the ride may reopen later in the season? Which would mean that they’d have longer to do the refurb.

Well it just seems appropriate since Nemmy is closed and they'd want that end of the park to be as busy as the others as soon as possible, hence its opening date when the park opens for 2023.

 

[RIPCorky]

I did have one thought.

People say that they’ve “only got 3 months left”, but; has it ever been expressly confirmed that the ride is reopening in March 2023? Isn’t it a possibility, however remote, that the ride may reopen later in the season? Which would mean that they’d have longer to do the refurb.

Don't think they can afford not to have it open with Nemesis being down. Only rides in that area would be Air and the fairground ride

 

[Matt N]

Don't think they can afford not to have it open with Nemesis being down. Only rides in that area would be Air and the fairground ride

There’s also The Blade and the possibility of a reopened Sub-Terra, isn’t there?

 

[Matt.GC]

I'm just saying, since this is Merlin, when have they made a proper improvement over their dark rides outside of Tomb blasters 2020 refurb. All the other previous dark rides were pretty much superior to their replacement, well to me anyway.

I don't disagree with you. I can't think of a single Merlin operated dark ride that I think is good other than Hex and they didn't build it. But then I also didn't think Nemesis would be retracked and that they would invest a few million quid into Duel in the first place.

Although I'm not confident, it is possible that they can come up with a mostly new ride for that money. There's enough talent in the business and the fact they're doing this in the first place shows there is some will also.

I really don't think we should be expecting a lick paint and some new light bulbs on an existing attraction for an alleged £4m. Let's also remember that all this stems from some pictures of old theming being discarded. It's not the end of the world.

 

[RIPCorky]

There’s also The Blade and the possibility of a reopened Sub-Terra, isn’t there?

Possible but not confirmed. Wouldn't surprise me if it didn't reopen, or fairground ride left.....

So far it doesn't look like this ride has been totally ripped to bits. When Toyland tours was, there were bits of theming everywhere.

 

[Trooper Looper]

I don't disagree with you. I can't think of a single Merlin operated dark ride that I think is good other than Hex and they didn't build it. But then I also didn't think Nemesis would be retracked and that they would invest a few million quid into Duel in the first place.

Although I'm not confident, it is possible that they can come up with a mostly new ride for that money. There's enough talent in the business and the fact they're doing this in the first place shows there is some will also.

I really don't think we should be expecting a lick paint and some new light bulbs on an existing attraction for an alleged £4m. Let's also remember that all this stems from some pictures of old theming being discarded. It's not the end of the world.

I'd say it won't be as drastic as Bubbleworks to The Gruffalo, but it won't be as subtle as Tomb Blasters 2020 refurb. I think it'll be a bit more extreme than Tomb Blasters, but not too much. A few new big scenes, yeah I can see that 100% happening, but also quite a few old scenes freshened up like reprints, new sfx, music, things like that.

 

[Matt N]

I may have pointed this out before, but one difference this has going for it compared to other Merlin dark ride rethemes is that an IP appears very unlikely here.

In instances such as Gruffalo and Charlie, the IP costs likely ate into the project budget a fair bit. With this ride, there seems to be a similar budget, but no IP costs to grapple with, which should leave more for the ride itself.

Possible but not confirmed. Wouldn't surprise me if it didn't reopen, or fairground ride left.....

So far it doesn't look like this ride has been totally ripped to bits. When Toyland tours was, there were bits of theming everywhere.

I’d say that there appears to be quite a high chance of something happening with Sub-Terra next season. The queue line was very carefully dismantled towards the end of the season, with all the boards being left in place as though they were waiting to hold a new queue line… if that doesn’t suggest that something is happening with it, what does?

The RetroSquad are also highly likely to return in some form next season, by the sounds of things. Never say never, of course, but I’ve neither seen nor heard any indication of them being removed.

In terms of how much of the ride has been ripped out… it is really hard to tell. As much as we’ve “only” seen 3 scenes so far, much more could well have been removed and simply slipped under the radar… particularly seeing as the park has now been closed to the public for a month.

I agree with @Matt.GC in suspecting that a budget well into 7 figures (allegedly) would certainly suggest a fairly large overhaul rather than a simple refurbishment and restoration of the existing HH stuff. Duel allegedly cost well under £1m in 2003 (not much more than £1m even in 2022 money), and in that refurb they replaced a fair percentage of the scenes, refurbished all of the HH scenes with new lighting, restored effects and such, and installed a new state-of-the-art blaster system!

With that in mind, I certainly think that if it is used wisely, the alleged £3-5m budget range could certainly stretch quite far and pull off a ride that is, for all intents and purposes, totally new.

 

[RIPCorky]

I may have pointed this out before, but one difference this has going for it compared to other Merlin dark ride rethemes is that an IP appears very unlikely here.

In instances such as Gruffalo and Charlie, the IP costs likely ate into the project budget a fair bit. With this ride, there seems to be a similar budget, but no IP costs to grapple with, which should leave more for the ride itself.

I’d say that there appears to be quite a high chance of something happening with Sub-Terra next season. The queue line was very carefully dismantled towards the end of the season, with all the boards being left in place as though they were waiting to hold a new queue line… if that doesn’t suggest that something is happening with it, what does?

The RetroSquad are also highly likely to return in some form next season, by the sounds of things. Never say never, of course, but I’ve neither seen nor heard any indication of them being removed.

In terms of how much of the ride has been ripped out… it is really hard to tell. As much as we’ve “only” seen 3 scenes so far, much more could well have been removed and simply slipped under the radar… particularly seeing as the park has now been closed to the public for a month.

Would be funny if Sub Terra returned same season as Nemesis as a Nemesis pre show or something daft,,,,

I assume as soon as they want to shift a few tickets or merlin passes for next season we will hear more about these rides...

 

[Matt.GC]

I'd say it won't be as drastic as Bubbleworks to The Gruffalo, but it won't be as subtle as Tomb Blasters 2020 refurb. I think it'll be a bit more extreme than Tomb Blasters, but not too much. A few new big scenes, yeah I can see that 100% happening, but also quite a few old scenes freshened up like reprints, new sfx, music, things like that.

What would they spend 4 million quid on then? I don't think there's any precedent for this as Gruffalo was a completely different kettle of fish. No idea how much it cost, but they had to fork out for an IP, were motivated by that IP and had to pay to haphazardly repaint a Transylvanian area in brighter colours (I refuse to call it retheme because its terrible).

Tomb Blasters redo must have been lost on me. I rode it for the first time in years a few months ago and it was every bit as crap as I remembered it before 2020.

I'm all for giving Merlin a bashing as I don't share some of the optimism others do around these parts that they've changed their spots. But Duel is having significant money spent on it, without an IP, much to everyone's surprise. I don't think this is one that can be predicted, especially down to finer details like whether the trommel will return or not. They won't spend all that money for it to be mainly the same ride re-opening next year. This has all the hallmarks of being more substantial than that.

 

[Matt N]

On a separate note, I notice that the Emily Alton doll’s house rumour/theory was mentioned again on the previous page.

Personally, I think this theory sounds very logical, and I would not be at all surprised if this was what was ultimately announced. This could just be my interpretation of it, but it would seem to line up with the teaser material released by the park for numerous reasons, including:

• The initial blackboard had “this is my house” written on it in childish writing, which many took to be Emily Alton’s writing. The childish writing could possibly hint towards dolls or playing, and if the statement is taken very literally, could the writing have been referring to the ride being turned into Emily Alton’s doll’s house?
• The ”Property Repossessed” signs around Gloomy Wood had certain letters highlighted in what appeared to be blood. These letters spelled out “Possessed, want to play”… which would certainly line up with some kind of doll’s house theme, in my view.
• You may remember that the Property Repossessed signs had a phone number at the bottom, which played a pre-recorded announcement when called. This announcement was fairly generic at face value, mostly just repeating what the signs in the area said, but it did arguably contain a few subtle hints… at the end, a little girl’s voice said something or other (which could certainly add weight to the Emily Alton doll’s house theory), and there was also a version of ITHOTMK playing in the background that sounded a bit like a distorted/possessed music box or something, which is quite a common trope in scary doll’s house type themes.
• The video seen through the peepholes in Gloomy Wood contained a doll being held by a hand… could this hand have been the hand of Emily Alton, playing in her doll’s house?
• The park released videos on social media that sounded as though you could hear a little girl whispering in them… could this be Emily Alton?

I know it might sound like I’m clutching at straws a little in places, and I could be totally wrong here. However, that theory would make an awful lot of sense based on the evidence we currently have, in my view.

 

[Trooper Looper]

What would they spend 4 million quid on then? I don't think there's any precedent for this as Gruffalo was a completely different kettle of fish. No idea how much it cost, but they had to fork out for an IP, were motivated by that IP and had to pay to haphazardly repaint a Transylvanian area in brighter colours (I refuse to call it retheme because its terrible).

Tomb Blasters redo must have been lost on me. I rode it for the first time in years a few months ago and it was every bit as crap as I remembered it before 2020.

I'm all for giving Merlin a bashing as I don't share some of the optimism others do around these parts that they've changed their spots. But Duel is having significant money spent on it, without an IP, much to everyone's surprise. I don't think this is one that can be predicted, especially down to finer details like whether the trommel will return or not. They won't spend all that money for it to be mainly the same ride re-opening next year. This has all the hallmarks of being more substantial than that.

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if a certain portion of the budget would be put on refurbishing the ride system as in the last few years it would just occasionally stop at least once when I went on (and I'm not rhe only one to witness this) so I wouldn't be surprised if a good portion was spent on fixing that problem and removing the Blaster system. Lets not forget that each car on there is around £18K in 1992 GBP, so imagine that in todays currency.

Thats around £44k in todays money, and no doubt a lot of that went to the rides hardware. So there's 32 of them if I'm right, so that's around £1,408,000. Yeeshh...
Of course it won't be this expensive as they're already built, but to fix them would undoubtedly cost a heavy amount, especially when it's the only ride system of its type ot be made, so spare hardware and parts would have to probably be custom made, which is no cheap task.
So, maybe £500K-£750K to fix the ride systems faults from recent years. Though, this could be all coming from the rides main hardware instead of each of the cars individual systems.

I still think the remaining 2-3 million pounds of the budget is going towards things like the new tomb plaza, new gift shop, new speakers, refurbishing already existing elements of the rides that can very from the facade, the drawing room, the lighting, the props, the scenery, etc, but I think most of the budget is being split up into a few new scenes, as the zombie finale for Duel cost under £1 million to make. I can see the budget being shared for smaller changes instead of all round new scenes, but there are new scenes coming in replacing the old ones such as the finale and the Tunnel of Doom. So, maybe a few new scenes, new elements in already existing scenes, refurbished ride system, refreshing older scenes, new music, new Tombstone, yoy get the jig. That there is already quite the budget.

You're absolutely right though, unlike most of Merlins projects, there is very little we know about this, and what most people say about it is just subjective, hence yours and mine and many others here.

Still, would be nice for the trommel to stay, even with the current theming not returning.

 

[jmc]

Yes you've said this so many times, your opinion was valid the first time. The same/similar photo of the trommel face round the back was posted only a few pages ago

Yes not sure why we are re debating this, I have no interest in claiming first dibs on a photo but I posted what I could confidently say having seen it in person that the teeth were the trommel…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[rob666]

Don't think they can afford not to have it open with Nemesis being down. Only rides in that area would be Air and the fairground ride

They are all fairground rides!

 

[ChristmasPud]

Here's an interesting way of looking at it. What effects could be achieved today that couldnt at the time?

The original intention of the trommel was for a revolving tunnel of flames. That could finally be done today with projection and AV

The flying ghost would still be difficult because this was fundamentally a mechanical effect, but with higher budget and better design technology today I'm sure could be engineered

I'd like to hope the ghosts would have a higher budget for more than just a large moving prop, which would work wonders to add some life to them.

You could also use projection to enhance. But not screens because CG characters etc never really matches the style.