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[2023] The Curse at Alton Manor

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zeock said:
After all, about 95 percent of the people coming to AT every year probably have no clue that the HH existed!
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You'd be surprised. The best way to describe the Haunted House is that it was a ride everyone knew and really liked, but no one ever really talked about it. Whenever the HH is mentioned anywhere on Social Media, it gets quite a bit of attention from many guests and Enthusiasts alike.
 
Trooper Looper said:
You'd be surprised. The best way to describe the Haunted House is that it was a ride everyone knew and really liked, but no one ever really talked about it. Whenever the HH is mentioned anywhere on Social Media, it gets quite a bit of attention from many guests and Enthusiasts alike.
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Interesting, I'd have thought that it would have been largely forgotten by the GP.
 
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I would be surprised if many guests who visit Towers actually remember the Haunted House. Even on this forum, there will be less people that rode the Haunted House over Duel.

As for the facade, I would be surprised if they do anything with it until the new year. It will no doubt be the last thing changed/cleaned/updated as a part of this refurb.
 
James said:
I would be surprised if many guests who visit Towers actually remember the Haunted House. Even on this forum, there will be less people that rode the Haunted House over Duel.

As for the facade, I would be surprised if they do anything with it until the new year. It will no doubt be the last thing changed/cleaned/updated as a part of this refurb.
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I can imagine many parents remembering the HH, but no one else really. Still, older adults make up a big portion of the Parks guests.

As for the facade, the only potential change I can see is the Duel sign being taken off site, or Dave returning to his tomb.
 
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James said:
I would be surprised if many guests who visit Towers actually remember the Haunted House. Even on this forum, there will be less people that rode the Haunted House over Duel.

As for the facade, I would be surprised if they do anything with it until the new year. It will no doubt be the last thing changed/cleaned/updated as a part of this refurb.
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Well I remember it in all it's glory. If that makes me old then I guess I'll have to go live in the haunted house when it returns
 
As people have said, all the furniture in the house being big would not make sense if that idea was that you've been shrunk down to the size of a doll, as it would all be to scale, however I'm surprised this idea hasn't come up: what about human sized dolls? I think that would make more sense, and plus would be a pretty creepy idea. Imagine creepy human sized doll animatronics, a la the Night Terrors episode of Doctor Who. I would like to say, I don't think this will happen at all, I just am surprised with all that discussion no one else thought of it.

My current bet however is a fairly traditional haunted house, with Emily appearing as a character, hopefully with some cool effects
 
Thankfully being well (well) into my 30’s I remember the haunted house very well indeed.

Late 90’s towers was prime in my opinion. Haunted House and Toyland Tours were world class dark rides and haven’t been surpassed in the park since.

If most have not ridden the haunted house on here then how can they judge whether it would be a good or bad decision to return back to it with a full refurb?
 
Blackhole_Sun said:
Thankfully being well (well) into my 30’s I remember the haunted house very well indeed.
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Same - I loved the Haunted House, but I am one of the few enthusiasts that thought Duel was good too. It had its own little charm, and the ride soundtrack was brilliant.

I'm excited to see what they do with the ride's soundtrack actually - will they bring back some of the older tracks? Some were very 90's, but one or two could still work (Entrance Hall and Drawing Room for e.g.), perhaps re-mastered.

The 03-17 soundtrack is confined to the archives, but 18-22 has a chance of returning.

Or will it be an entirely new soundtrack?
 
Blackhole_Sun said:
If most have not ridden the haunted house on here then how can they judge whether it would be a good or bad decision to return back to it with a full refurb?
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There are POVs and such out there that give an idea. I would also raise the fact that Duel wasn’t all that dissimilar to it. I appreciate that certain things were different between the HH and Duel, but some things would remain inherently the same regardless of what form the ride existed in.

Also, I’d argue that there are other ways to judge whether “reviving” the HH would be a good idea regardless of whether you’ve ridden it or not.

My personal feeling is that I would be somewhat sceptical about the success prospects of a “revival” of the original HH. And I say that for a number of reasons that I can evidence without riding it:
  • In my view, it is likely that the average guest either wouldn’t know about the original HH or wouldn’t understand the rationale behind “bringing it back” - The Haunted House already closed 20 years ago. A great many guests who visit Alton Towers now won’t know about it or remember it, and even those that do are unlikely to care that much about it “returning”. I feel like many guests would question why the park was “reviving” an old ride rather than building something new, and I feel as though the average guest would not “get” why the HH was returning. As such, I feel as though it would be a tough sell marketing-wise for your average guest.
  • It would never be the exact same ride as the 1992 original - When many of the die-hard enthusiasts whom a “revival” of the HH would be aimed at talk about “reviving” the HH, they usually rhapsodise about long lost scenes that they want to see back, long lost effects that need to be returned, long lost soundtracks that need to be returned, and other things that were quite specific to the original 1992 HH. My argument is that a “revival” would never be the exact same ride as the original Haunted House, no matter how driven the creative team is, simply because things have changed since the original ride was built. For instance, the original ride was designed with incandescent lightbulbs in mind (I think?), which can no longer be used due to climate change and the conception of LEDs. Therefore, you’d have a situation where the 1992 scenes were lit with lighting they weren’t designed for, which is a significant part of what led to Duel’s 2022 predicament in the first place. Not to mention that a not insignificant portion of the 1992 ride was demolished to build the finale of Duel. With that in mind, I feel like the die hard enthusiasts whom a “revival” would aim to please might not be happy that certain elements of the original experience were unable to return. And when combined with what I said above about the average visitor not really understanding why they’re reviving the HH, I fear that a “revival” would be an unmarketable idea that would ultimately please very few.
  • Would the 1992 Haunted House still stand up in 2023? I wouldn’t be 100% certain - Even assuming an idealistic world where the 1992 ride could be “revived” to perfection (which I feel is almost impossible, as explained above), question marks still remain about whether the 1992 experience would still hit the spot in 2023. As much as the ride was undeniably very successful in 1992, the theme park industry has changed considerably since then. The goalposts dictating what constitutes a “good ride” have shifted notably in the last 30 years, and the demands of the contemporary guest are very different in 2023 to what they were in 1992. I do wonder if the 1992 Haunted House’s modern reputation is based at least partially on nostalgia. I feel like going on a “revived” version of the 1992 Haunted House in 2023 has the potential to be akin to when you watch an 80s film or TV show that you remembered being the best thing since sliced bread in its year of release, but re-watching it in the 2020s exposes its gaping flaws, like how unconvincing the special effects were and how some of the jokes and references wouldn’t be considered politically correct in today’s society. I accept that that isn’t a perfect analogy, and we of course don’t know how the 1992 ride would be received by a modern audience. Nonetheless, my point is that the goalposts have shifted considerably in 30 years, and no matter how much of a “Wardley classic” it may have been, The Haunted House would not have been immune to the effects of that.
And finally, I would argue that you cannot turn back time. There was only one Haunted House, and it closed in 2002. No amount of devotion from the creative team or lust on the part of die-hard fans will ever truly bring it back. No matter what is done, Duel cannot be simply written out of the Alton Towers canon, and the HH cannot simply be “resurrected” as though Duel never happened.

As such, my sincere hope is that the park looks to the future rather than the past with this refurbishment. I’d be thrilled with something that keeps the basic concept alive, perhaps even makes a few subtle nods to its predecessor. However, I am personally hesitant about whether bringing back The Haunted House would be a good idea.
 
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Matt N said:
No matter what is done, Duel cannot be simply written out of the Alton Towers canon, and the HH cannot simply be “resurrected” as though Duel never happened.
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Does it matter? If it's entertaining and unique, it's serving its purpose. I reckon the original theme and style just so happens to still be entertaining, if given a big update. Which is handy because then the groundwork for a good ride is mainly already there, rather than need starting again. Duel clearly didn't fit the park and was poor quality. It will be easily forgotten.
 
Matt N said:
There are POVs and such out there that give an idea. I would also raise the fact that Duel wasn’t all that dissimilar to it. I appreciate that certain things were different between the HH and Duel, but some things would remain inherently the same regardless of what form the ride existed in.

Also, I’d argue that there are other ways to judge whether “reviving” the HH would be a good idea regardless of whether you’ve ridden it or not.

My personal feeling is that I would be somewhat sceptical about the success prospects of a “revival” of the original HH. And I say that for a number of reasons that I can evidence without riding it:
  • In my view, it is likely that the average guest either wouldn’t know about the original HH or wouldn’t understand the rationale behind “bringing it back” - The Haunted House already closed 20 years ago. A great many guests who visit Alton Towers now won’t know about it or remember it, and even those that do are unlikely to care that much about it “returning”. I feel like many guests would question why the park was “reviving” an old ride rather than building something new, and I feel as though the average guest would not “get” why the HH was returning. As such, I feel as though it would be a tough sell marketing-wise for your average guest.
  • It would never be the exact same ride as the 1992 original - When many of the die-hard enthusiasts whom a “revival” of the HH would be aimed at talk about “reviving” the HH, they usually rhapsodise about long lost scenes that they want to see back, long lost effects that need to be returned, long lost soundtracks that need to be returned, and other things that were quite specific to the original 1992 HH. My argument is that a “revival” would never be the exact same ride as the original Haunted House, no matter how driven the creative team is, simply because things have changed since the original ride was built. For instance, the original ride was designed with incandescent lightbulbs in mind (I think?), which can no longer be used due to climate change and the conception of LEDs. Therefore, you’d have a situation where the 1992 scenes were lit with lighting they weren’t designed for, which is a significant part of what led to Duel’s 2022 predicament in the first place. Not to mention that a not insignificant portion of the 1992 ride was demolished to build the finale of Duel. With that in mind, I feel like the die hard enthusiasts whom a “revival” would aim to please might not be happy that certain elements of the original experience were unable to return. And when combined with what I said above about the average visitor not really understanding why they’re reviving the HH, I fear that a “revival” would be an unmarketable idea that would ultimately please very few.
  • Would the 1992 Haunted House still stand up in 2023? I wouldn’t be 100% certain - Even assuming an idealistic world where the 1992 ride could be “revived” to perfection (which I feel is almost impossible, as explained above), question marks still remain about whether the 1992 experience would still hit the spot in 2023. As much as the ride was undeniably very successful in 1992, the theme park industry has changed considerably since then. The goalposts dictating what constitutes a “good ride” have shifted notably in the last 30 years, and the demands of the contemporary guest are very different in 2023 to what they were in 1992. I do wonder if the 1992 Haunted House’s modern reputation is based at least partially on nostalgia. I feel like going on a “revived” version of the 1992 Haunted House in 2023 has the potential to be akin to when you watch an 80s film or TV show that you remembered being the best thing since sliced bread in its year of release, but re-watching it in the 2020s exposes its gaping flaws, like how unconvincing the special effects were and how some of the jokes and references wouldn’t be considered politically correct in today’s society. I accept that that isn’t a perfect analogy, and we of course don’t know how the 1992 ride would be received by a modern audience. Nonetheless, my point is that the goalposts have shifted considerably in 30 years, and no matter how much of a “Wardley classic” it may have been, The Haunted House would not have been immune to the effects of that.
And finally, I would argue that you cannot turn back time. There was only one Haunted House, and it closed in 2002. No amount of devotion from the creative team or lust on the part of die-hard fans will ever truly bring it back. No matter what is done, Duel cannot be simply written out of the Alton Towers canon, and the HH cannot simply be “resurrected” as though Duel never happened.

As such, my sincere hope is that the park looks to the future rather than the past with this refurbishment. I’d be thrilled with something that keeps the basic concept alive, perhaps even makes a few subtle nods to its predecessor. However, I am personally hesitant about whether bringing back The Haunted House would be a good idea.
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Why not have half of the ride back to its Haunted House form and the other half be completely new?

Look, personally I'd love to see it returning to its original 1992 form, to the smallest detail, but I care more of Guests having a good time, both young and old. The whole "look to the future, not the past stuff" is a load of nonsense, not to you @Matt, but it's saying and how people use to get away with very biased stuff. Look at Blackpool, most of their attraction are over 30 years old, yet the park is still looked as one of the best in the country. Heck, it's seen as the best UK Non Merlin Park. They never go "We must look to the future, not the past" but instead, they go "The Future is important for Parks, but so is its past."
They have a perfect balance of old and new attractions I believe, instead of "new stuff there, modern stuff here, etc". They balance it. Alton and Chessington need to take notes from Blackpool I believe.

Yes, theme parks need to change over the years, if they didn't and they just kept the same stuff forever, guests would just stop coming over time as it'll get predictable and boring, but the Haunted House certain isn't really the case of that. There's clearly quite a chunk of people that still adore it, and they shouldn't be ignored, neither should the other half that simply want something different to experience. I believe, for the best outcome, The Haunted House should come back, mixed with new things and old things without taking away its original style and charm. Both satisfying old and new guests alike. Merlin should not operate from what THEY want, but rather, what guests of all sides want if they want to be really successful.

Also, @LLCorkscrew, which soundtracks do you mean by 03-17, and 18-22, I'm confused?
 
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Niet Roken said:
Does it matter? If it's entertaining and unique, it's serving its purpose. I reckon the original theme and style just so happens to still be entertaining, if given a big update. Which is handy because then the groundwork for a good ride is mainly already there, rather than need starting again. Duel clearly didn't fit the park and was poor quality. It will be easily forgotten.
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Does it matter?
No, none of it matters until next spring.
The same circles have been spun too many times, guesses and predictions repeated...we won't know anything until it opens, because it is in a big shed.
 
Niet Roken said:
Does it matter? If it's entertaining and unique, it's serving its purpose. I reckon the original theme and style just so happens to still be entertaining, if given a big update. Which is handy because then the groundwork for a good ride is mainly already there, rather than need starting again. Duel clearly didn't fit the park and was poor quality. It will be easily forgotten.
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I'm not saying that a HH "revival" 100% wouldn't be those things, but my fear is that if they kept the 1992 scenes exactly the same and used different lighting and such, it would not solve the current flaws that people see in Duel and the ride would not hit the spot in the intended manner. My point was more that the HH scenes were originally designed in a very specific way for a very specific ride experience (the 1992 HH), and if you deviate from that (which I feel would be almost inevitable given how things have changed since 1992), you risk a discrepancy between the scenery present and the lighting used, soundtrack used etc, which I'm led to believe was one of the biggest criticisms with 2022 Duel. A lot of people seemed to think that the ride was a bit of an identity crisis in its later years, with the lighting not being ideal for the scenes being one of the largest criticisms.

The lighting was discussed a lot in the previous Duel thread, and if you are unable to replicate the effect of the incandescent bulbs used in 1992, then any lighting they use on those scenes likely won't show them in their best light unless the scenes are modified a fair amount. Therefore, I fear that simply rehashing the 1992 scenery would lead to a less entertaining attraction that wouldn't solve some of Duel's key shortcomings.

If that happened, I feel like the average visitor would be unconvinced by the HH's "return", and the die-hard enthusiasts whom the "return" was aimed at would be disappointed that the "revived" HH did not have the same effect as the original HH.
Trooper Looper said:
Why not have half of the ride back to its Haunted House form and the other half be completely new?

Look, personally I'd love to see it returning to its original 1992 form, to the smallest detail, but I care more of Guests having a good time, both young and old. The whole "look to the future, not the past stuff" is a load of nonsense, not to you @Matt, but it's saying and how people use to get away with very biased stuff. Look at Blackpool, most of their attraction are over 30 years old, yet the park is still looked as one of the best in the country. Heck, it's seen as the best UK Non Merlin Park. They never go "We must look to the future, not the past" but instead, they go "The Future is important for Parks, but so is its past."
They have a perfect balance of old and new attractions I believe, instead of "new stuff there, modern stuff here, etc". They balance it. Alton and Chessington need to take notes from Blackpool I believe.

Yes, theme parks need to change over the years, if they didn't and they just kept the same stuff forever, guests would just stop coming over time as it'll get predictable and boring, but the Haunted House certain isn't really the case of that. There's clearly quite a chunk of people that still adore it, and they shouldn't be ignored, neither should the other half that simply want something different to experience. I believe, for the best outcome, The Haunted House should come back, mixed with new things and old things without taking away its original style and charm. Both satisfying old and new guests alike. Merlin should not operate from what THEY want, but rather, what guests of all sides want if they want to be really successful.

Also, @LLCorkscrew, which soundtracks do you mean by 03-17, and 18-22, I'm confused?
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I apologise; perhaps "look to the future, not the past" was a poor phrase on my part. What I meant was that I feel that the park should embrace a new experience rather than one that mostly leans on the old HH stuff, because the world has moved on since then and the contemporary guest has different demands nowadays to what they did in 1992. The goalposts have shifted considerably.

I'm not denying that the past is important, and I absolutely agree that this new attraction should keep the HH's base concept of "spooky house" at its core, keep what made it so successful in mind, and possibly even make some subtle nods to it. I don't deny that newness is not everything and that entertainment is ultimately at the business' core.

However, I'm personally unsure whether the 1992 Haunted House and its exact art style and design style would fly as a brand new attraction in 2023. You say "Merlin should not operate from what they want, but rather what guests of all sides want if they want to be really successful", but do guests want a rehash of a previous attraction that closed in 2002? Or might they prefer something new to experience? I'd wager that most would prefer the latter. I appreciate that new technology is not everything when it comes to entertainment, but I'd argue that when it comes to immersion, new technology can often pull off a more convincing effect than old scenery, and surely you want immersion to be as convincing as possible, no? I'd also argue that a new experience with more of a story and ambience to it, as many dark rides employ nowadays, may fit the modern market better than a simple rehash of the old Haunted House, which didn't really have much of a story to it. Many contemporary dark rides employ some semblance of story, while the Haunted House doesn't really have one. I feel like this refurbishment could solve that.
 
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