[2024] Nemesis Reborn: Construction and Speculation

[SMT_]

 

[Alsty]

No, everyone’s does not need to accept the fact because it hasn’t arrived in England yet! Labels and writing on the track seen in Ohio prove nothing, even if some coding does match up. And even if it does arrive in gloss black at Alton Towers, who knows if it’ll stay that way! Over a year until it reopens and so many have jumped to the conclusion already, madness.

I always think that if the TS team, with all their contacts, start saying it's black then it's probably going to be black...

 

[QTXAdsy]

Anyway, away from the black track, I'm suprised no has asked if anyone has seen any sign of the new supports being built. Would be nice to have something a little different that isn't about the track.

 

[Matt N]

Anyway, away from the black track, I'm suprised no has asked if anyone has seen any sign of the new supports being built. Would be nice to have something a little different that isn't about the track.

The closest we've seen so far is the arrival of footers on the car park. I'd imagine we're some way off new supports being built seeing as none have arrived at Alton Towers yet.

 

[Altonadvocate1]

I'm pretty certain from the evidence seen that Nemmie 2.0 will be predominantly black and have no issues with this. I expect it to receive a new theming envelope that will work well as a package.

Although the Phalanx have some historical context back to the start of Nemmie, it wasn't really pushed strongly until Nemesis Sub Terra. Given the general poor reception and subsequent failure of that ride, I am surprised that they are pushing this narrative with Nemmie 2.0.

Nemmie benefits massively from the terrain and compared to this, any theming, however good would be secondary. If they are redoing the station / monster, some vats of illuminated coloured moving liquid to simulate the lungs / internal organs / circulation / breathing of the monster would be a nice touch and not too expensive.

As for mustache'd, suit wearing villains or military operatives, I don't see the need. Nemmie should remain an imposing, overpowering, invincible force of nature without compromise.

I think she should be the undisputed star of the show!

To do otherwise, would be like making a new Indiana Jones movie, with Indie serving as the foil for younger, trendier, more diverse characters, before being deleted from his own timeline...

What's next, a Scooby Doo show without Scooby Doo..

I know Nemmie will remain the star of the show to be fair, but no dilution, please.

 

[Earthwürm]

As for mustache'd, suit wearing villains or military operatives, I don't see the need. Nemmie should remain an imposing, overpowering, invincible force of nature without compromise.

I think she should be the undisputed star of the show!

I have to disagree slightly here, although I think the sentiment is spot on and the end result the same. For me, attractions work best when you, the guest, are the star of the show.
I want a ride built around a solid plot. I want it to be obvious when I enter a ride area that something has happened. What I don't want is to be told what, who, when, where or why, I want to read the clues. I don't want to be shown an adventure, I want to be in one.

So yes, stop with the cartoon villains and spoon feeding us plot lines, just provide the set that allows the guest to create the movie.

 

[QTXAdsy]

I have to disagree slightly here, although I think the sentiment is spot on and the end result the same. For me, attractions work best when you, the guest, are the star of the show.
I want a ride built around a solid plot. I want it to be obvious when I enter a ride area that something has happened. What I don't want is to be told what, who, when, where or why, I want to read the clues. I don't want to be shown an adventure, I want to be in one.

So yes, stop with the cartoon villains and spoon feeding us plot lines, just provide the set that allows the guest to create the movie.

Hot take here but regarding cartoony villains for rides, would that mean that technically speaking the Lord of Darkness for Oblivion falls under this banner too?

Probably not cartoony back then in 1998 but now you could make an argument he's no better than the Phalanx moustache man when you compare them both from a modern perspective.

Probably going to get stick for saying that now...

 

[Earthwürm]

Hot take here but regarding cartoony villains for rides, would that mean that technically speaking the Lord of Darkness for Oblivion falls under this banner too?

Probably not cartoony back then in 1998 but now you could make an argument he's no better than the Phalanx moustache man when you compare them both from a modern perspective.

Probably going to get stick for saying that now...

You see, now you're making it difficult for me to pretend I actually think anything through before typing.

I do think, though, that the Lord of Darkness was fairly well done in that he was used as more of a prop to further the thematic experience than to force any plot upon the guest. As fans we know the origins and backstory of Oblivion, but if you arrived in X-Sector for the first time with no prior knowledge of the story, you'd have exactly as I described in my previous post.

However, I'm sure there are countless examples of great rides in which characters further a story. That kind of thing just isn't my preference.

 

[QTXAdsy]

You see, now you're making it difficult for me to pretend I actually think anything through before typing.

I do think, though, that the Lord of Darkness was fairly well done in that he was used as more of a prop to further the thematic experience than to force any plot upon the guest. As fans we know the origins and backstory of Oblivion, but if you arrived in X-Sector for the first time with no prior knowledge of the story, you'd have exactly as I described in my previous post.

However, I'm sure there are countless examples of great rides in which characters further a story. That kind of thing just isn't my preference.

Actually IIRC correctly when Oblivion first opened, the Lord of Darkness was actually doing a lot of plot telling from the queue videos right from the start though as you said you could say in turn that he was just building up the experience. Only recently following the Smiler crash that he has been reduced in the queue line videos and even then he's been heavily edited down to not included several things such as the final video before you board the ride with the Lord of Light telling you to get out when you still can.

 

[RyanUK]

I'm pretty certain from the evidence seen that Nemmie 2.0 will be predominantly black and have no issues with this. I expect it to receive a new theming envelope that will work well as a package.

Although the Phalanx have some historical context back to the start of Nemmie, it wasn't really pushed strongly until Nemesis Sub Terra. Given the general poor reception and subsequent failure of that ride, I am surprised that they are pushing this narrative with Nemmie 2.0.

Nemmie benefits massively from the terrain and compared to this, any theming, however good would be secondary. If they are redoing the station / monster, some vats of illuminated coloured moving liquid to simulate the lungs / internal organs / circulation / breathing of the monster would be a nice touch and not too expensive.

As for mustache'd, suit wearing villains or military operatives, I don't see the need. Nemmie should remain an imposing, overpowering, invincible force of nature without compromise.

I think she should be the undisputed star of the show!

To do otherwise, would be like making a new Indiana Jones movie, with Indie serving as the foil for younger, trendier, more diverse characters, before being deleted from his own timeline...

What's next, a Scooby Doo show without Scooby Doo..

I know Nemmie will remain the star of the show to be fair, but no dilution, please.

So, if it turns out to be black, then one may start to form the opinion that as Alton Towers failed with Sub Terra, let’s have another go and put it on Nemesis itself. There’s been a lot of talk lately about Sub Terra possibly reopening, if it turns out Nemesis is black, then pairing the two together with the same theme is clearly the route they’ve taken.

Actually IIRC correctly when Oblivion first opened, the Lord of Darkness was actually doing a lot of plot telling from the queue videos right from the start though as you said you could say in turn that he was just building up the experience. Only recently following the Smiler crash that he has been reduced in the queue line videos and even then he's been heavily edited down to not included several things such as the final video before you board the ride with the Lord of Light telling you to get out when you still can.

Really, is this the Lord of the light? I never knew him under that name.

 

[Matt.GC]

There wasn't really such thing as "The Lord of Darkness". X Sector was a strange, secret, Area 51 style facility where a Daniel Craig lookalike said things to intimidate you as you spiraled your way up a hill to eventually board the ride. That was it. No explanation, just a cool looking coaster that dropped almost vertically into "Oblivion" within some weird secret facility like area, and I think it was better that way.

To most, Nemesis was also just a mysterious creature that burst out of the ground one day, leaving devastation and rivers of blood within it's pit. Again, little explanation outside of the original marketing and a comic sold as merch that 99% of guests would never have read, it was just a cool looking coaster that looked like a monster.

Thirteen, yet again, no explanation, there's just a crypt, wraiths and the "forest" taking over things for some reason (well, as much as the low theming budget will allow for anyway). Although I'm sure someone somewhere will one day make up a name for one of the Wraiths like 'Hooded Gary' or something and make up some silly elaborate story in an attempt to explain it and some 22 year old graduate working on the Towers website will just shoehorn it in.

The "Lord of Darkness" stuff was made up Thoosie Juice that they just put on the text in the app and on the website one day. A bit like just suddenly making up Nemesis' track no longer being part of the monster, even though track like tenticles are clearly emanating from the monster itself. I prefer it when themes were left open ended and things just looked cool for the hell of it rather than trying to rationalise it all with spoon fed story explanations.

 

[Earthwürm]

Actually IIRC correctly when Oblivion first opened, the Lord of Darkness was actually doing a lot of plot telling from the queue videos right from the start though as you said you could say in turn that he was just building up the experience. Only recently following the Smiler crash that he has been reduced in the queue line videos and even then he's been heavily edited down to not included several things such as the final video before you board the ride with the Lord of Light telling you to get out when you still can.

I haven't been on Oblivion since 2011, so I actually didn't realise he'd been cut so dramatically.
But back to Nemesis, as much as I loved the theme and it holds so many good memories for me in its original form, I don't think change is bad, they just need to get the execution right. The track colour does leave me a little uninspired, but at this early stage, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps it will be their version of the triple fried egg chilli chutney sandwich. The ingredients are all wrong. Black track? Wrong. Phalanx? Wrong. Moustache guy? All wrong, but put them together and somehow it works... we'll see

 

[ChristmasPud]

There wasn't really such thing as "The Lord of Darkness".

Everything you say in that post is true

There's deliberately no mention of a "story" or "Lord of Darkness" around Oblivion.
The dude telling you things on the screens was only given that name in the cheesy Fireworks show they had in 1998, where he fights the Lady of the Light to try destroy the Crystal of Eternal light or something.

The Nemesis stuff is a bit like if someone misread on Wikipedia that Oblivion was about an evil Lord rescuing the crystal of eternal light and thinking it had always been the "Story", luckily that one was less spread among enthusiasts.

Nothing to do with the ride really, just done for some fun, like the Nemesis comic.

 

[Trooper Looper]

Everything you say in that post is true

There's deliberately no mention of a "story" or "Lord of Darkness" around Oblivion.
The dude telling you things on the screens was only given that name in the cheesy Fireworks show they had in 1998, where he fights the Lady of the Light to try destroy the Crystal of Eternal light or something.

The Nemesis stuff is a bit like if someone misread on Wikipedia that Oblivion was about an evil Lord rescuing the crystal of eternal light and thinking it had always been the "Story", luckily that one was less spread among enthusiasts.

Nothing to do with the ride really, just done for some fun, like the Nemesis comic.

YOU'RE ALIVE??

Also, yeah, I'm pretty tired of rides for some reason NEEDING preshows and backstories with 3 pages worth of info that Thoosies for some reason deeply want. Treat rides in a mysterious way each guest can interpret for themselves. This is why I like older UK attractions, because they lack these deep backstories and preshows. Vampire is a great example of this. Just a creepy woods with old gargoyles, warning signs, creepy sounds in the bushes, a gothic Abbey with a vampire playing the organ, and thats it, and you don't know what's around the next corner. Fear of the unknown is a fantastic element for rides which I believe is very underutilised nowadays. This element alone is what I believe makes Alton towers the park we love, and with the looks of more recent investments, I don't really sense that, not even with Wicker Man. I'm really hoping they don't abandon it and just do the go-to Disney Preshow with a character speaking to you in the attraction or themed area.

 

[RyanUK]

Fear of the unknown element indeed but I’d say half of the visitors know why lies ahead on most rides.

I assume you’ve been to see the Chained Oak Tree, but if you never have or have never seen Hex, you’d certainly have a shock and leave soiled if you saw that tree in chains for the first time.

 

[Max]

Cant help but feel like the discussion regarding the rides theme - like many points of discussion for enthusiasts - has gotten a *little* out of control.

Vagueness has been the name of the game for every major themed attraction bar Wicker Man. The Smiler’s marketing had 4 videos of “back story” and an entire prequel scare maze, but none of this lore made it into the final attraction aside from a couple of blink-and-you’ll-miss-it references. Why would it be any different for the Nemesis revamp?

Will there be a few more references to the Phalanx? Probably. But is this stuff really going to go any further than a couple bits of signage and themed uniform? We know nothing for certain yet but already people are acting like Merlin have trampled over the rides original theme.

If the final theme ends up anything like how some people are suggesting I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong, but as it stands people are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[ChristmasPud]

We know nothing for certain yet but already people are acting like Merlin have trampled over the rides original theme.

Not really, I only see posts debating the possibility of it. Seems like a valid discussion to me when the promo so far is seems deliberately suggesting there's some kind of change afoot with Nemesis, to do with the Phalanx . Nemesis is one the park's most well known themes so a point of debate right?

 

[Max]

Seems like a valid discussion to me when the promo so far is seems deliberately suggesting there's some kind of change afoot with Nemesis, to do with the Phalanx .

The promo is just that though - promo. You can point to plenty of examples of Merlin marketing campaigns not having much bearing on the final ride (Aside from small references) - Is Les Cougan a massive part of The Swarm‘s theme?

There will undoubtably be changes to the rides theme, but I really doubt that it’s going to turn into Phalanx - The Ride

 

[Jb85]

The need to explain a story constantly comes from the younger. generations lack of imagination and the whole social media world. unless they are told they cannot understand, in the main.

 

[ChristmasPud]

The promo is just that though - promo. ... There will undoubtably be changes to the rides theme, but I really doubt that it’s going to turn into Phalanx - The Ride

Yeah promo is usually meant to start discussion and interest. All the promo is about Phalanx, so the discussion is about Phalanx. I dont think anyone's jumped the gun thinking it will definitely be the new theme or got "out of control".

Sub Terra had one of the worst themes on park, weird decision to resurrect that theme to promote the park's best coaster. Now with added rejected Doctor Who villain. The original Nemesis promo was also cheesy but more fun and more "Nemesis"