[2024] Nemesis Reborn: Construction and Speculation

[Poisson]

They had support problems. They replaced the support and footers.

AFAIK it's the loop support and the one after it with the most issues. If the issues were serious they'd modify the footer and support, not scrap the thing.

I doubt onboard audio. Not needed and why make the trains even heavier if you have concerns? Plus I doubt Towers will want to mod trains again since the Galactica fiasco.

Slightly off topic but speaking of soundtracks i realised recently the opening of Eyeless by Slipknot reminds me of the Oblivion soundtrack and wanted to see if anyone else agreed haha

Considering they were roughly the same era, not massively surprising (Oblivion's theme was 97/98 whilst self titled was released '99) Blame Sid and Craig.

 

[Matt.GC]

My 7 year-old is fascinated by the music around the park and loves how as far as Sub-Terra they play the Gloomy Woods music and then as you turn the corner and the Nemesis bridge comes into view the main Nemesis track kicks in, just as you start to get a glimpse of the ride. He was very annoyed when we stopped for coffee that in the seating area you can't hear Nemesis due to Funk'n'Fly, though hopefully that's just temporary.

Agreed on the layout and theming. The less changed the better really. I suppose a full retrack, with replacement footers etc, would require a lot of clearance of the planting that has grown in the pit to allow for machinery etc - not quite back to 1994 levels but would be a lot less "green" that it is now.

I remember 94. Went to Florida 2 months later and Nemesis was as good a coaster in terms of atmosphere, theme and theatre as anything I saw out there. Was also the best coaster I rode that year.

My kids are the same. If there's one ride they wanted to go on when they were little it was Nemesis. My thrill seeking 10 year old got on it first time last year and it's now his favourite UK coaster, he especially loves back row. My 7 year old daughter measures herself regularly with Nemesis in mind.

From seeing it from the monorail, to standing underneath it in the pit, the whole area around it is fantastic. It looks run down and the blood no longer flows, but the music playing as soon as you enter FV then walk downwards past the rocks and it still delivers almost 3 decades later. I agree with Nick, I couldn't imagine Towers without Nemesis, it's original theme, original music and layout.

 

[TommyCM]

As a kid growing up, my older brother and sister and dad would always talk so much about Nemesis over every other ride at the park, and I always wondered why because at that time, Oblivion looked far more daunting!

But I used to wait for them to come off of it and be amazed by the surrounding scenery and theming, Alton towers producing such a well themed B&M coaster in that space with the tree restrictions is a roller coaster design masterpiece there’s no doubt about it.

Nemesis will always be legend of the park and I do fear for the day when/if Alton decide it’s too old and take it down because even 27 years on, it’s still one of the main attractions, if not, THE main attraction for visitors, especially those who have never been to the Towers before.

 

[JAperson]

As a kid growing up, my older brother and sister and dad would always talk so much about Nemesis over every other ride at the park, and I always wondered why because at that time, Oblivion looked far more daunting!

But I used to wait for them to come off of it and be amazed by the surrounding scenery and theming, Alton towers producing such a well themed B&M coaster in that space with the tree restrictions is a roller coaster design masterpiece there’s no doubt about it.

Nemesis will always be legend of the park and I do fear for the day when/if Alton decide it’s too old and take it down because even 27 years on, it’s still one of the main attractions, if not, THE main attraction for visitors, especially those who have never been to the Towers before.

Very accurate description of Nemesis. It really is a work or art! If you ask most people in the street to name a roller coaster they will usually come back with two answers: nemesis and oblivion. Nemesis being the most common. It's ride at the UK's biggest theme park. I just hope it gets the refurbishment it deserver's.

 

[Matt N]

Call me a bad Alton Towers fan or whatever, but I’ve got to admit that while I like Nemesis, I’ve never really gotten on board with a lot of the hype train towards it.

I did used to like it more as a younger enthusiast, but I never absolutely loved it like a lot of people on here do, and in recent times especially, I’ve gotten on it wanting to really fall in love with it like everyone else on here has and I often come off it a little disappointed.

Don’t get me wrong, I do really like it, but am I the only one who’s often left a bit underwhelmed by it? I don’t know whether it’s because my expectations are too high whenever I ride it, I don’t know whether it’s because I don’t like the headbanging in places, I don’t know whether it’s because I don’t rate coasters that provide nothing but positives like I used to, or whether it’s something else entirely, but regardless of what it is, I don’t personally rate Nemesis like a lot of people do, and I often come off it disappointed these days.

Another possibly controversial argument that I’m willing to make is that Nemesis isn’t that well-known or iconic anymore outside of enthusiast circles. I’m not going to deny that it’s still a ride that gets people waiting for it, as the queues show that it clearly is, but I personally think that only enthusiasts hold it on such a pedestal of iconic-ness (is that a word?) nowadays.

For instance, while I don’t know if this is necessarily an accurate case study; when I was sat in sixth form working, I would occasionally overhear conversations about theme parks or Alton Towers, and Nemesis didn’t seem to be mentioned in any of them. In terms of rides people talked about and seemed to like, from having visited the park themselves, I heard Smiler come up a lot, Wicker Man came up a fair bit, Oblivion was bought up a fair bit and even Rita was bought up by some, but I never heard Nemesis get mentioned.

Likewise, it’s not the ride that a lot of people among my family & friends who visit Alton Towers are often talking about when they get home. Within my own family group, for instance; while my dad very much likes Nemesis and still holds it up as one of his on-park favourites alongside Oblivion, my mum’s favourite is Wicker Man, my favourite is Wicker Man, and even though my sister doesn’t come with us anymore, her favourite was always Smiler, and she said that she’d place Nemesis down there with Rita as being among her least favourites of the big 7 because she “[finds] it boring” (If you’re interested, her ranking of the big 7 in descending order from favourite to least favourite was; Smiler, Galactica, Oblivion, Wicker Man, Thirteen, Nemesis, Rita). Among other people I know who go to Alton Towers, it’s usually the likes of Smiler, Wicker Man, Oblivion and Rita that seem the most popular.

So with that in mind, I’m not really seeing the same love for Nemesis among non-enthusiasts as there is among enthusiasts, at least among those I know personally. I very much think that Nemesis is more of an “enthusiast ride” within Alton Towers’ lineup nowadays.

I’m sorry if my opinion proves controversial, but I’m afraid those are my honest thoughts.

 

[JAperson]

Another possibly controversial argument that I’m willing to make is that Nemesis isn’t that well-known or iconic anymore outside of enthusiast circles. I’m not going to deny that it’s still a ride that gets people waiting for it, as the queues show that it clearly is, but I personally think that only enthusiasts hold it on such a pedestal of iconic-ness (is that a word?) nowadays.

For instance, while I don’t know if this is necessarily an accurate case study; when I was sat in sixth form working, I would occasionally overhear conversations about theme parks or Alton Towers, and Nemesis didn’t seem to be mentioned in any of them. In terms of rides people talked about and seemed to like, from having visited the park themselves, I heard Smiler come up a lot, Wicker Man came up a fair bit, Oblivion was bought up a fair bit and even Rita was bought up by some, but I never heard Nemesis get mentioned.

I have had literally the opposite experience so maybe it changes depending who your talking too.

Likewise, it’s not the ride that a lot of people among my family & friends who visit Alton Towers are often talking about when they get home. Within my own family group, for instance; while my dad very much likes Nemesis and still holds it up as one of his on-park favourites alongside Oblivion, my mum’s favourite is Wicker Man, my favourite is Wicker Man, and even though my sister doesn’t come with us anymore, her favourite was always Smiler, and she said that she’d place Nemesis down there with Rita as being among her least favourites of the big 7 because she “[finds] it boring” (If you’re interested, her ranking of the big 7 in descending order from favourite to least favourite was; Smiler, Galactica, Oblivion, Wicker Man, Thirteen, Nemesis, Rita). Among other people I know who go to Alton Towers, it’s usually the likes of Smiler, Wicker Man, Oblivion and Rita that seem the most popular.

My family are the opposite funnily enough! My dad and mum thinks its the best roller coaster they have ever been on and that everything built afterwards isn't as good. Apart from the fact my dad called it Nevesis since opening year until I came a long and told him he was pronouncing it wrong.
I think the rides most people have heard of around the UK, particularly if they went to a school that does trips there, are Nemesis, Oblivion, The Smiler and Thirteen. Rita is also sometimes mentioned. Wicker Man is still mentioned as the new one despite the fact it is now 4 years old.
Maybe your family is less thrill seeking than mine @Matt N as Wicker Man is considerably less thrilling than nemesis (probably and opinion you will disagree with) .
I think a lot of people particularly if they visited in the mid-late 90's still think of it whenever anyone mentions Alton Towers.

 

[Plastic Person]

I've mentioned this before, but it's difficult to overstate just how much of a big deal Nemesis was in the nineties. Not just in terms of the park's coaster lineup, which has obviously expanded since, but in terms of its impact on popular and youth culture. Riding it was something of a pilgrimage for people in their teens, twenties and thirties. And not to let my own dewey-eyed nostalgia get in the way of discussion, but I think if it were indeed to close and then reopen, we'd witness just how popular and important it is to the park. And that's because it's brilliant.

However, if it ceased to operate forever or came back sponsored by Twiglets or Go Compare, the world would still keep turning.

 

[Skyscraper]

I've mentioned this before, but it's difficult to overstate just how much of a big deal Nemesis was in the nineties. Not just in terms of the park's coaster lineup, which has obviously expanded since, but in terms of its impact on popular and youth culture. Riding it was something of a pilgrimage for people in their teens, twenties and thirties. And not to let my own dewey-eyed nostalgia get in the way of discussion, but I think if it were indeed to close and then reopen, we'd witness just how popular and important it is to the park. And that's because it's brilliant.

However, if it ceased to operate forever or came back sponsored by Twiglets or Go Compare, the world would still keep turning.

I completely agree. Alton Towers would not be what it is today if Nemmy hadn't been built.

 

[Matt N]

I have had literally the opposite experience so maybe it changes depending who your talking too.

My family are the opposite funnily enough! My dad and mum thinks its the best roller coaster they have ever been on and that everything built afterwards isn't as good. Apart from the fact my dad called it Nevesis since opening year until I came a long and told him he was pronouncing it wrong.
I think the rides most people have heard of around the UK, particularly if they went to a school that does trips there, are Nemesis, Oblivion, The Smiler and Thirteen. Rita is also sometimes mentioned. Wicker Man is still mentioned as the new one despite the fact it is now 4 years old.
Maybe your family is less thrill seeking than mine @Matt N as Wicker Man is considerably less thrilling than nemesis (probably and opinion you will disagree with) .
I think a lot of people particularly if they visited in the mid-late 90's still think of it whenever anyone mentions Alton Towers.

Interesting!

I don’t think my family are necessarily not thrill seekers by any means; admittedly, I should have prefaced my prior statement by saying that my mum isn’t really into rides that are incredibly intense (Nemesis is the only one I know of that she doesn’t like for this reason, however), but my older sister genuinely says that she thinks “Nemesis is honestly a bit boring compared to the others”, and she “doesn’t get why [our] lot like it so much when there are many way more thrilling and interesting rides in the same park alone”. And when she told me how she’d rank the big 7 based on her last experience with them all, she genuinely said she had no qualms about putting Nemesis in 6th, ahead of only Rita.

I judge coasters by how I overall feel about the ride coming into the brake run. For me, that feeling with Nemesis is “that was a good ride that I enjoyed, but not something that I absolutely love”. My feeling with coasters I genuinely love, however, is “Wow! That was amazing; I need to experience that again!”, and I’m afraid I simply don’t get that with Nemesis, personally, whereas I do get that on other UK coasters that I like more (for instance, Icon, Wicker Man and Swarm, the 3 UK coasters that I’d personally call a 10/10 within my rankings, all induce that feeling for me).

 

[Skyscraper]

Interesting!

I don’t think my family are necessarily not thrill seekers by any means; admittedly, I should have prefaced my prior statement by saying that my mum isn’t really into rides that are incredibly intense (Nemesis is the only one I know of that she doesn’t like for this reason, however), but my older sister genuinely says that she thinks “Nemesis is honestly a bit boring compared to the others”, and she “doesn’t get why [our] lot like it so much when there are many way more thrilling and interesting rides in the same park alone”.

I judge coasters by how I overall feel about the ride coming into the brake run. For me, that feeling with Nemesis is “that was a good ride, but not something that I absolutely love”. My feeling with coasters I genuinely love, however, is “Wow! That was amazing; I need to experience that again!”, and I’m afraid I simply don’t get that with Nemesis, personally, whereas I do get that on other UK coasters that I like more (for instance, Icon, Wicker Man and Swarm, the 3 UK coasters that I’d personally call a 10/10 within my rankings, all induce that feeling for me).

Back when after Thirteen was opened Towers conducted a visitor survey to find guests favourite rides, and JW was surprised that Nemesis, Oblivion and Air came out on top, even though they were older. There were two main reasons for that I think:

A) Attractions after those three weren't as good/popular
B) The 3 original rides have nostalgia value

This was actually what lead to Smiler- They wanted to build a coaster that would, in John's own words, "knock Nemesis off the number 1 spot".

 

[Matt N]

Back when after Thirteen was opened Towers conducted a visitor survey to find guests favourite rides, and JW was surprised that Nemesis, Oblivion and Air came out on top, even though they were older. There were two main reasons for that I think:

A) Attractions after those three weren't as popular
B) The 3 original rides have nostalgia value

This was actually what lead to Smiler- They wanted to build a coaster that would, in John's own words, "knock Nemesis off the number 1 spot".

That’s very true, but didn’t Smiler later go on to win the similar poll conducted after that ride opened?

I also think Wicker Man might be more popular than Nemesis these days too, as I seem to remember the park saying that it was the highest-scoring ride on their feedback surveys.

 

[JAperson]

I judge coasters by how I overall feel about the ride coming into the brake run. For me, that feeling with Nemesis is

For me when I hit the brake run on nemesis it's always a breathtaking 'wow!' Yeah sure it's intense and it's a bit old. When I first experienced Nemesis it rode slightly better than it does now and I can honestly say I was astounded.

The only person who doesn't think Nemesis is the best in my family is my aunties who thinks that oblivion is the best. She thinks nemesis is a close second.

 

[Skyscraper]

The only person who doesn't think Nemesis is the best in my family is my aunties who thinks that oblivion is the best. She thinks nemesis is a close second.

I can certainly see why; Oblivion is definitely more intimidating than Nemesis.

 

[JAperson]

I can certainly see why; Oblivion is definitely more intimidating than Nemesis.

Yes she loves the intimidation and then the big 'wow' and then she does it again. I think she said she once did it 8 times in a row.

 

[Matt N]

I personally like Oblivion a fair bit more than Nemesis (favourite steel coaster on park, UK #4, and overall #6!); yes, it might be short, but my goodness does it pack a lot into its length! I love the airtime, the raw sensation of speed, and the pure adrenaline of the thing! Although I loved SheiKra as well, so I may just really like Dive Coasters…

But of course, each to their own and all that!

 

[JAperson]

I personally like Oblivion a fair bit more than Nemesis (favourite steel coaster on park, UK #4, and overall #6!); yes, it might be short, but my goodness does it pack a lot into its length! I love the airtime, the raw sensation of speed, and the pure adrenaline of the thing! Although I loved SheiKra as well, so I may just really like Dive Coasters…

But of course, each to their own and all that!

Oblivion is my second favourite after Nemesis on park very closely followed by Wicker Man (only in the afternoon once it's warmed up).
I think that nemesis and oblivion are so key to Alton Towers that removing either would have a massive impact on the park. I am not just talking visitor number but also atmosphere of the whole park would change. Could you really imagine wlaking into forbidden valley and not hearing the nemesis them blasing out as it comes into view, 'dir dir dir dededederdededer deeeer'. Or could you imagine walking into X-sector and not hearing oblivion drop into it's pit. It just wouldn't feel like Alton Towers!

I hope Nemesis gets it's refurbishment and then my and @Matt N can ride it new and see just how good that layout is!

 

[Matt N]

Oblivion is my second favourite after Nemesis on park very closely followed by Wicker Man (only in the afternoon once it's warmed up).
I think that nemesis and oblivion are so key to Alton Towers that removing either would have a massive impact on the park. I am not just talking visitor number but also atmosphere of the whole park would change. Could you really imagine wlaking into forbidden valley and not hearing the nemesis them blasing out as it comes into view, 'dir dir dir dededederdededer deeeer'. Or could you imagine walking into X-sector and not hearing oblivion drop into it's pit. It just wouldn't feel like Alton Towers!

I hope Nemesis gets it's refurbishment and then my and @Matt N can ride it new and see just how good that layout is!

I do get what you mean, from this standpoint! The atmosphere of Forbidden Valley is one of the things that has stayed seemingly constant in all of the years I’ve been visiting, although as sad as I am to say it, I think Oblivion’s atmosphere and noise have kind of been drowned out by The Smiler; rightly or wrongly, that ride hogs all the attention in X-Sector these days!

However, I think that many of the newer rides have become just as much of a part of Alton Towers for me, personally! For instance, although it’s only been there for 3 years, I now can’t imagine walking into Mutiny Bay without hearing the roar of Wicker Man going round, the music and the noises that play when the ride passes through the different points of the structure, even though I did for many years prior to its construction! Likewise, despite what I said above about Oblivion, I now can’t imagine walking into X-Sector without hearing The Smiler roaring round and hearing the music & various sound effects; I remember when Smiler was closed in 2015, X-Sector felt empty, and as though it was missing something!

Also, while it would of course be sad to see Nemesis closed for a year, I don’t think it would drastically affect visitor numbers like many think it would. As much as many love it when they’re at Alton, and I’m certainly not denying the role that it played in making the park its name, I don’t think it’s really what pulls people in these days.

 

[Plastic Person]

A lot of these feelings are generational. For example, I'm not a massive fan of The Smiler by any means, although I'm glad it was a success for the park and continues to be a hit. If it had been demolished following the incident in 2015, it wouldn't have bothered me too much. But to younger enthusiasts, The Smiler is their 'gateway' coaster in the same way Nemesis was to myself.

The difference is perhaps that Nemesis began the SW trend, and while Corkscrew, Black Hole and Thunder Looper (RIP, one and all), were all seen as fairly formidable in 1994, Nemesis was immediately on another level.

 

[Matt N]

A lot of these feelings are generational. For example, I'm not a massive fan of The Smiler by any means, although I'm glad it was a success for the park and continues to be a hit. If it had been demolished following the incident in 2015, it wouldn't have bothered me too much. But to younger enthusiasts, The Smiler is their 'gateway' coaster in the same way Nemesis was to myself.

The difference is perhaps that Nemesis began the SW trend, and while Corkscrew, Black Hole and Thunder Looper (RIP, one and all), were all seen as fairly formidable in 1994, Nemesis was immediately on another level.

I do agree with this sentiment, in a sense.

While I’m not a massive fan of Smiler as a ride experience these days, I do personally have a lot to owe to it. It was the coaster that got me into theme park enthusiasm in the first place, as it was its construction that gave me real intrigue about theme parks. And when I rode it as a 10-year-old who’d just hit 1.4m, it did feel like somewhat of a rite of passage to me; as much as my love for it as a ride experience has waned over the years, I did love it at the time I first rode it (in spite of it not being my favourite coaster at Alton Towers upon first riding), and I do still have a special place in my heart for it!

I can certainly imagine that someone who was 10 riding Nemesis in its opening year would feel the same way about Nemesis.

 

[JAperson]

I'm not sure because I'm the same generation as @Matt N and without Nemesis I wouldn't be an enthusiast. I watched my family go on it as a kid and always wanted to go on it. I'd stand watching it for ages while my family queued and rode it and all I wanted to do was join them. When I reached the height limit I was too scared originally but had told my mum to drag me on as I knew I would love it. Wicker Man played an important part in me as well as watching the construction made me even more into theme parks and made me start to watch this forum. It took me a further 3-4 to join the forum but Nemesis is the most important coaster for me.