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2025 General Discussion
- Thread starter Craig
- Start date
djtruefitt
TS Team
I do think Oktoberfest would have been better to have just been ran during Fridays and weekends, but with longer hours then. As in the week there was hardly any guests on park anyway, and with the short hours people won’t be wanting to sit and watch the shows.
I would have thought it must have made some money with the amount people bought in food and drink, but I guess with that being outsourced Towers never really saw much of that income.
I would have thought it must have made some money with the amount people bought in food and drink, but I guess with that being outsourced Towers never really saw much of that income.
Not surprised in the slightest.
Bar Scarefest and Fireworks I think that will be the end of the “lawns” experiment.
Without permanent facilities this was always a possibility and honestly I’m not that disappointed.
The events felt like a distraction and the stage shows were a bit amateur all things considered. If Alton are going to do a stage show I’d much rather it be in a proper permanent venue (near the hotels perhaps), rather than an afterthought.
The benches will not be missed.
Hopefully this allows the park to focus on getting rid of the sticking plasters
- A proper permanent entertainment venue somewhere on park
- Reopening towers st family restaurant, Swiss Cottage and adding some permanent food “booths”
- Investing in more permanent maze locations
- Investing in allowing the park to be closer to 365 (lighting/indoor venues/ride alternatives/shows etc)
- Getting Project Horizon and new flat rides in the pipeline
- Fix up the gardens and come up with sustainable uses for the towers ruins
- Bring back and integrate key characters/IP (Henry/Henrietta Hound, Alton Bear, Scarefest characters, Algenon, Emily Alton, Darwin, Phalanx, Wraiths, Beornen)
Honestly i never bothered with events other than scarefest and fireworks.
Fireworks being cut back to 2 days seems bizarre but it is what it is.
Nevertheless until Merlin ween themselves off the stupid MAP business model this will continue.
Bar Scarefest and Fireworks I think that will be the end of the “lawns” experiment.
Without permanent facilities this was always a possibility and honestly I’m not that disappointed.
The events felt like a distraction and the stage shows were a bit amateur all things considered. If Alton are going to do a stage show I’d much rather it be in a proper permanent venue (near the hotels perhaps), rather than an afterthought.
The benches will not be missed.
Hopefully this allows the park to focus on getting rid of the sticking plasters
- A proper permanent entertainment venue somewhere on park
- Reopening towers st family restaurant, Swiss Cottage and adding some permanent food “booths”
- Investing in more permanent maze locations
- Investing in allowing the park to be closer to 365 (lighting/indoor venues/ride alternatives/shows etc)
- Getting Project Horizon and new flat rides in the pipeline
- Fix up the gardens and come up with sustainable uses for the towers ruins
- Bring back and integrate key characters/IP (Henry/Henrietta Hound, Alton Bear, Scarefest characters, Algenon, Emily Alton, Darwin, Phalanx, Wraiths, Beornen)
Honestly i never bothered with events other than scarefest and fireworks.
Fireworks being cut back to 2 days seems bizarre but it is what it is.
Nevertheless until Merlin ween themselves off the stupid MAP business model this will continue.
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Dave
TS Founding Member
Oktoberfest is a big loss, it was a great event.
Scarefest changes are fine, I think it’s better to just run weekends and half term but maintain the 9pm close.
Fireworks I’m not surprised after last years Friday being dead, but they really don’t help themselves by not offering show only tickets for locals on the Friday (arrive after 5 for £10).
Still think it’s stupid deciding your opening times outside of events so far in advance. Summer should be minimum 6pm weekends and hold the budget until the week before so you can see the forecast. You end up wasting money opening until 7pm on a Saturday it’s raining and everyone has gone home then close at 5pm on a midweek day that’s surprisingly busy because it’s a heatwave.
Scarefest changes are fine, I think it’s better to just run weekends and half term but maintain the 9pm close.
Fireworks I’m not surprised after last years Friday being dead, but they really don’t help themselves by not offering show only tickets for locals on the Friday (arrive after 5 for £10).
Still think it’s stupid deciding your opening times outside of events so far in advance. Summer should be minimum 6pm weekends and hold the budget until the week before so you can see the forecast. You end up wasting money opening until 7pm on a Saturday it’s raining and everyone has gone home then close at 5pm on a midweek day that’s surprisingly busy because it’s a heatwave.
It’s quite clear that guest numbers and spend were down in 2024. But it seems such a regressive tactic to cut expenditure and events to match demand, an ambitious business with a bit of money to spend would go the other way and actually try and increase demand.
It’s a bit hyperbolic to say it’s a death spiral, but it certainly isn’t good.
That said, I’m sure I’ll still enjoy my one or two visits this year.
It’s a bit hyperbolic to say it’s a death spiral, but it certainly isn’t good.
That said, I’m sure I’ll still enjoy my one or two visits this year.
venny
TS Member
It was clear to see Oktoberfest’s scope was scaled back last year, and with other events getting the chop, it only felt like a matter of time for Oktoberfest. It’s a big shame because I know it was a highlight in the calendar for many.
I’m not sure exactly what the strategic approach from Merlin is anymore, other than to cut to the bare bone. There’s no appeal to a visit to Alton Towers for us anymore. The frustration of rides broken down or closed, the inedible and extortionate food and poor upkeep end up being more annoying than any enjoyment from getting on the rides that are open.
Our passes expired in September and we’ve no intention of renewing - I don’t really want to give Merlin any of our money.
The death spiral continues...
I’m not sure exactly what the strategic approach from Merlin is anymore, other than to cut to the bare bone. There’s no appeal to a visit to Alton Towers for us anymore. The frustration of rides broken down or closed, the inedible and extortionate food and poor upkeep end up being more annoying than any enjoyment from getting on the rides that are open.
Our passes expired in September and we’ve no intention of renewing - I don’t really want to give Merlin any of our money.
The death spiral continues...
djtruefitt
TS Team
I’m guessing they’ll just have someone on the entrance to CBeebies Land like they used to, who will just check hotel bookings. Like the staff do at the hotel entrance in the valley.
tech
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Universe of Energy - Epcot (RIP)
With the cutbacks we’ve seen so far, it’s clear that budgets are very tight at the resort. I do agree that there is potential for things to change as the season progresses depending on revenue and we may see a third fireworks date crop up again, or Oktoberfest.
That said, it’s not a great advertisement for the park to have so much cut back before March has even come around. I can’t make it for opening meet, and to be honest I’m not going to bother renewing my pass on expiry in March. Maybe if things change as the season progresses I’ll change my mind, but as it stands I see little point. I’m sure there’s plenty others in the same boat at the moment, and when your most loyal fans are bowing out (and I’m certainly not alone looking at others I know), there’s not a lot of hope for that extra revenue rolling in to allow cutbacks to be restored.
Such a shame
Couldn't agree more. We've got three platinum passes in our household, plus a hefty onsite spend each time we go (no hotdog flasks here..!) and honestly, if Oktoberfest turns out to be cut then we'll probably end up not renewing next month and having a year out. We tested the water with Drayton Manor last year and the kids LOVED it, my eldest is still talking about it now, contrast that with our AT trips over the years and they've just got slowly more mundane as time has gone on.
Oktoberfest was a particular highlight for us all and seeing that cut back and cut back has been painful to watch - it's all straight from the Merlin playbook unfortunately; launch a successful event, then deliver it again in year 2 with a 10% budget cut, repeat until folk vote with their feet, then cut it due to low numbers.
Cbeebies closing early was a bit of a slap in the face too - more cash for less ride time - our Christmas visit was disappointing with half of Cbeebies closed and other parts which should have been open just fenced off with no explanation. They're not even trying any more.
Our passes cost us about £720 per year, the spend on top probably pushes us into 4 figures, we'll just spend it somewhere else - few trips to Drayton, a day at Gullivers, maybe even a jaunt to Paulton's Park when visiting family down that way, and we'd probably still make a saving.
GooseOnTheLoose
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Ug Bugs
The attendance at least doubled after 3 Steins and quadrupled if you fell over and lost your glasses.
tayspru
TS Member
And how often did that happen in September ?
If the event was turning a profit it wouldn’t have been cut
Locals (within 3km) get free tickets anyway. The Friday and Sunday were the days when they could be used for the fireworks, so I assume it’ll just be the Sunday this year now.
Shame because people locally went the Friday in the evening because it was quiet.
Honestly though towers if they were interested could easily run busses (for a small fee) from Staffs university, Keele and other local colleges etc on certain days such as the Friday for fireworks.
Craig
TS Administrator
I don't think anyone can argue that Oktoberfest was an outright success in terms of revenue for the park . The problem is it was brought in at a time during Covid where everyone had a decent amount of spare cash to fork out on food and beverage. When everyone's forking out on those extras then it's a decent success. Fast forward a few years and people are majorly tightening their purse strings, Merlin's in house F&B revenue is off to a third party and their events catering is also ran by another third party.
However, there is something to be said about the atmosphere on park that Oktoberfest brought. Loads of people hanging around at the end of the day and an overall positive impression left on guests after a day spent at the park. As a result people are far more likely to return, that surely needs to be considered.
If revenue wasn't up to scratch, why did it seem like the only option the Merlin way of just making cuts? What about offering some sort of evening ticket with reduced parking? Being a little more sensible with hotel prices which were through the roof? Concentrating running the event on weekends and Fridays instead of on a daily basis? Mobile ordering at tables to encourage people to scan and pay without interrupting watching the entertainment?
Of course if they can't make the numbers work for Oktoberfest, does that mean it should just be cancelled without replacement? Alton Towers is a theme park after all, something should be stepping in its place. Whether that be around the same dates or at another time of year, it shouldn't just be yet another opportunity to experience the park in a different light that's dropped to satisfy Merlin's shareholders.
As @Mick said, death spiral is perhaps a little hyperbolic. But when the park is seemingly being diluted year on year into something resembling more of an amusement park with rides and overpriced hotels with little to gain from staying in them but a decent location, is it so far fetched?
However, there is something to be said about the atmosphere on park that Oktoberfest brought. Loads of people hanging around at the end of the day and an overall positive impression left on guests after a day spent at the park. As a result people are far more likely to return, that surely needs to be considered.
If revenue wasn't up to scratch, why did it seem like the only option the Merlin way of just making cuts? What about offering some sort of evening ticket with reduced parking? Being a little more sensible with hotel prices which were through the roof? Concentrating running the event on weekends and Fridays instead of on a daily basis? Mobile ordering at tables to encourage people to scan and pay without interrupting watching the entertainment?
Of course if they can't make the numbers work for Oktoberfest, does that mean it should just be cancelled without replacement? Alton Towers is a theme park after all, something should be stepping in its place. Whether that be around the same dates or at another time of year, it shouldn't just be yet another opportunity to experience the park in a different light that's dropped to satisfy Merlin's shareholders.
As @Mick said, death spiral is perhaps a little hyperbolic. But when the park is seemingly being diluted year on year into something resembling more of an amusement park with rides and overpriced hotels with little to gain from staying in them but a decent location, is it so far fetched?