[202X] Project Horizon (SW9?): Planning Approved

[BarryZola]

I suppose the counter would be what's to stop them doing both? If they're planning on spending the money either way that doesn't sound like a factor (unless there's a major tax incentive or something from spreading the costs) and the sooner you have a major new attraction the better surely, especially an indoor one that can boost your 365 opening plans.

Bring in 1 or 2 flats to accompany Nemesis next year and 1 or 2 for Horizon, everybody wins!

A decent point. But then they wouldn't have the opportunity to market new rides year after year, they'd be condensing it into one season. I suppose the view would be that if you have a new ride each year you can grab new or repeat visitors over a number of years as opposed to just in one season.

 

[Poisson]

It wouldn't be hard for the park to apply for an extension to the planning permission if required. It isn't a concern really when they start.

 

[Bowser]

A decent point. But then they wouldn't have the opportunity to market new rides year after year, they'd be condensing it into one season. I suppose the view would be that if you have a new ride each year you can grab new or repeat visitors over a number of years as opposed to just in one season.

I did think that although again the counter would be they already did it this year with The Curse and Sub-Terra (neither of which are "new"). Flat rides have a much more limited appeal imo so multiple entries would be less of a concern and it needs to be a pretty spectacular ride if it's the sole new addition in a park like AT.

Generally they're more of a sidekick to the main ride. I think Chessington did a good job making their new attraction "Jumanji". Obviously Mandrill is the draw but having a whole area seemed to work well for marketing. Places like Universal tend to go with that approach too.

 

[Matt.GC]

They've pushed it back to 2026 because they want to design, market, launch and bed in their new park logo first. An intern is busy going through Office 95 clip art as we speak, surrounded by flip charts with the logos for Churnetside Business Park, Moorlands radio and ITV's This Morning on them. Sandbrook has been approached to front the reveal videos and is being measured up for a pair and chinos and a Henry Hound outfit.

 

[ScottishChris]

Firstly, we are making the assumption that Horizon is a coaster... are we not? Has there been any statement regarding whether it is a coaster or not?

Secondly, if it is from a major manufacturer it is unlikely that they would have the option to push it back. Manufacturers tend to have pretty full order books and operate on a 'slot' system. Same with builders/ fabricators. If they had it planned for 2025, it would mean that the contracts with all parties would have been signed and all involved would have it in their diaries and be working around that. The only way I could see the launch being pushed back is that they build the attraction and just don't open it for a year - which would be odd.

 

[James]

I did think that although again the counter would be they already did it this year with The Curse and Sub-Terra (neither of which are "new"). Flat rides have a much more limited appeal imo so multiple entries would be less of a concern and it needs to be a pretty spectacular ride if it's the sole new addition in a park like AT.

Generally they're more of a sidekick to the main ride. I think Chessington did a good job making their new attraction "Jumanji". Obviously Mandrill is the draw but having a whole area seemed to work well for marketing. Places like Universal tend to go with that approach too.

To nitpick, Sub-Terra was not advertised as 'new for 2023'. Apart from some social media mentions, it was not advertised heavily in any way. On the other hand, The Curse was advertised as new with national advertisement and pushed heavily across all different types of media.

The Curse was a substantial retheme and refurbishment of an existing ride. Sub-Terra had minimal work and is effectively the same experience it was in 2015. There's a big difference between the both.

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It makes sense to postpone Horizon if flat rides will be added in between. I know the argument that flat rides do not have broad appeal is brought up, but Alton Towers is good at marketing, and 2 or 3 new rides advertised in one year will have some appeal. Let's not forget that Alton Towers has had many 'low budget' years where smaller attractions or area rethemes have been advertised. These all have less appeal than a huge multi-million-pound coaster, but they still draw appeal as a 'new' experience.

 

[immelmanloop]

Thorpe Park are haveing a large clean up and fix up over this closed season, in addition to Hyperia and the angry birds retheme, could we see a similar budget plan allocated to towers to be diverted into flat rides.

 

[Josh555]

To nitpick, Sub-Terra was not advertised as 'new for 2023'. Apart from some social media mentions, it was not advertised heavily in any way. On the other hand, The Curse was advertised as new with national advertisement and pushed heavily across all different types of media.

The Curse was a substantial retheme and refurbishment of an existing ride. Sub-Terra had minimal work and is effectively the same experience it was in 2015. There's a big difference between the both.

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It makes sense to postpone Horizon if flat rides will be added in between. I know the argument that flat rides do not have broad appeal is brought up, but Alton Towers is good at marketing, and 2 or 3 new rides advertised in one year will have some appeal. Let's not forget that Alton Towers has had many 'low budget' years where smaller attractions or area rethemes have been advertised. These all have less appeal than a huge multi-million-pound coaster, but they still draw appeal as a 'new' experience.

It's not just the installation of flats which is the issue anyway, is it? If all that was needed was a few flat rides then I'd take the point about them potentially installing them in the same season as Horizon, but what is really needed is a freshen up of the entire resort, the numerous issues which are discussed on here ad infinitum addressed etc, of which flat rides are one (fairly major) element.

It makes sense to take a season to tackle all of the above before installing a new major attraction so I'd fully be behind that decision if indeed that is the reason. Of course it's Merlin so it may well be that the ride is delayed a year whilst those issues remain unaddressed which also wouldn't surprise me.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

According to the Staffordshire Moorlands website, full planning permission was only granted on 22nd June 2023. The permission runs out on
21/06/2026. You can find all of the submitted documents re Project Horizon there and start sifting for clues. - http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=165529

Based on this I wouldn't expect construction to start until Spring 2024. 78 weeks is the proposed construction time, so I'd wager a 2026 opening was the safest bet. Incidentally I don't think this project has been pushed back in any way, shape, or form. I think we all jumped the gun and assumed that full planning permission had been granted much sooner than it actually had.

EDIT: Didn't realise that @AT86 had already shared the same link and hinted at similar. - https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/202x-project-horizon-sw9-planning-approved.6401/post-439492

 

[Ash]

It makes sense if they are expecting a significant uptick in visitors from Nemesis 2.0 and PH.

A sensible scenario would be:
- 2024
Nemesis 2.0 opens
New flat on Ripsaw site for summer
Ripsaw Cafe refresh

2025
Two new flats for X sector
New restaurant/cafe within Walliams world
New restaurant added into Swiss Cottage

2026
PH Opens
New flat for summer in dark forest
Park wide lighting/audio system installed

 

[jon81uk]

Firstly, we are making the assumption that Horizon is a coaster... are we not? Has there been any statement regarding whether it is a coaster or not?

Secondly, if it is from a major manufacturer it is unlikely that they would have the option to push it back. Manufacturers tend to have pretty full order books and operate on a 'slot' system. Same with builders/ fabricators. If they had it planned for 2025, it would mean that the contracts with all parties would have been signed and all involved would have it in their diaries and be working around that. The only way I could see the launch being pushed back is that they build the attraction and just don't open it for a year - which would be odd.

Its not being "pushed back" as it was never known when they actually planned to build it. More likely it was going to me for 2026 anyway.

It is expected to be a coaster due to the height of the building and other similar things.

 

[Squiggs]

It is expected to be a coaster due to the height of the building and other similar things.

Such as being referenced as a coaster in the planning docs.

 

[Poisson]

Park wide lighting/audio system installed

Permission was refused for permanent lighting and I'm unsure they'd get permission if they tried again. The locals objected that they'd leave them on 24/7/365.

Horizon being in the order book for a manufacturer and when it's built make little difference. If necessary they can store the track for a year in a warehouse somewhere.

 

[Benjsh]

Back to the coaster discussion for a second....

Do we think the Axis coaster is still a possibility? The one opening next year in Saudi Arabia is quite short in length and apparently will do two laps to compensate. The building footprint for this new project is massive so it's definitely possible to fit one in that building I would think.

I love most indoor coasters so whatever they go with I'm sure I will enjoy. This just feels like a great time to build a Axis Coaster. Won't be a world first but could well be a first for Europe and the theming options given it's going to be indoors would really enhance the ride experience too I would say.

I know the multi dimensional coaster has come a long way since the days of TH13TEEN but for me it would still feel a bit pointless to have such a similar ride in the same park and also closely located to each other too.

 

[Ash]

Permission was refused for permanent lighting and I'm unsure they'd get permission if they tried again. The locals objected that they'd leave them on 24/7/365.

Horizon being in the order book for a manufacturer and when it's built make little difference. If necessary they can store the track for a year in a warehouse somewhere.

Where’s the application for that? I’m sure it would even be needed? Certainly within GDO? And dependent on installation they wouldn’t even be visible external to the park. I’m talking lampposts or path lights (as seen in CBeebies land)…not floodlights

 

[Poisson]

Unable to find the original document relating to when they went for the permanent park lighting from a very quick skim, but concerns were raised again during this planning for Horizon

 

[Matt.GC]

A sensible scenario would be:
- 2024
Nemesis 2.0 opens
New flat on Ripsaw site for summer
Ripsaw Cafe refresh

2025
Two new flats for X sector
New restaurant/cafe within Walliams world
New restaurant added into Swiss Cottage

2026
PH Opens
New flat for summer in dark forest
Park wide lighting/audio system installed

I would argue that throwing another attraction in to Forbidden Valley/Warzone
World and leaving X Sector with the least attractions it's had since it has existed for an entire year would be an absolute disaster. You'd have 5 attractions in FV and just 2 in X sector. I also wouldn't touch Walliams World whilst it's in the awful state it's currently in until they have the chance to tear it apart when Horizon opens. So I can't see the justification to open a Cafe in one of the rotting old buildings until the area has had a rethink.

As nice as it would be to have the Swiss Cottage open again, I don't think it would ever work, and with a park struggling to sustain over 2 million visitors per year that still operates 10-4 opening hours, I don't think there's any justification to add so much food capacity concentrated into that area. You'd have a Cafe in Walliams World, CCL Burger Kitchen, Woodcutters, Eastern Express and Swiss Cottage all within a short walking distance of eachother.

But I do agree with your overarching point that most of the things you've mentioned are higher up the priority list than Horizon. Food capacity (and quality) needs sorting desperately. And the flat lineup needs to be 4 rides, not 3 (2 X Sector, 1 Dark Forest, 1 Forbidden Valley). The retheme of the Dungeons to a family Dark ride is also of higher priority than a new coaster.

It seems that almost everything that needs sorting is of higher priority than a new coaster in fact. That's why I can't say I've ever been overly excited about it, especially since it's going to be so small.

 

[James]

Alton Towers have added permanent lighting slowly over the years and we’ve seen themed lighting with some new attractions. There’s far more permanent lights around the park now than there was 15 years ago.

 

[Jb85]

Permission was refused for permanent lighting and I'm unsure they'd get permission if they tried again. The locals objected that they'd leave them on 24/7/365.

Horizon being in the order book for a manufacturer and when it's built make little difference. If necessary they can store the track for a year in a warehouse somewhere.

No manufacturer would just store the track for a year, and hold the price. Pricing is so volatile at the moment.

It's possible Merlin could vest it. I.e. they pay now for it and hold it, but again a coaster is a big thing to store.

 

[Tom]

I guess there is some contradiction across the documents, but the architects state 12-14 month construction period. I would therefore not expect anything meaningful to have happened yet (which it hasn't) in any case. Nothing having happened by March/April next year would be the real confirmation of a 2026 opening - be that a delay, or just the original plan.



A reminder that Wicker Man opened in 2018, a 2025 opening will already represent seven years since the last major reinvestment, which is desperately needed to grow, or even maintain, the park. Taking that to eight years seems extreme to me. With the best will in the world, re-opening Nemesis or adding flat rides (not convinced they will happen anyway) will do nothing to draw in a significant numbers of additional visits.