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[202X] Project Horizon (SW9?): Planning Approved
- Thread starter Danscott22
- Start date
Dobba
TS Member
An educated guess, I suppose, given they made a point of saying the archaeological work was being done this June just gone. Not sure why they'd be in a rush to get it done this summer if it wasn't going to start construction for another 15 months.
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Dave
TS Founding Member
Smilers track was stored in the car parks as well. There isn’t a whole lot of open space where big trucks can get in and unload track on the other side of the park.
pluk
TS Member
I anticipate pretty much the whole ride (without themeing) will be built before any building can be erected, so I doubt much will be secret at all.
Squiggs
TS Team
Personally I'd be keeping an eye on the service yard behind The Curse for the first signs of development starting.
There's an awful lot of stuff on the Horizon site and not all of it will be due for the scrap yard. The good money is that some elements will appear in other backstage areas as development starts on site.
There's an awful lot of stuff on the Horizon site and not all of it will be due for the scrap yard. The good money is that some elements will appear in other backstage areas as development starts on site.
Correct. There’s no way you could erect a coaster which will by default need cranes inside a building. The site will probably be cleared first, groundwork will then start, foundations etc, the floor will go in along with the footers for the supports, then the coaster will be built. Once completed they’ll then enclose it in the building and then start work on the theming.
I guess they could erect the walls of the building first, but they will certainly need the roof off to crane in the supports and track.
I am sure we’ll see plenty of drone footage of the entire build until the roof goes on.
AT86
TS Member
A reminder that the new coaster at Port Aventura basically had the building up before they built the coaster.
It’s not an impossible construction scenario.
Relevant posts:
https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/portaventura-general-discussion.204/post-376005
It’s not an impossible construction scenario.
Relevant posts:
https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/portaventura-general-discussion.204/post-376005
Epcots guardians of the galaxy cosmic rewind was also built with the building completed first (where as they built Tron the other way round)
The two indoor coasters in the Dreamwork's land at Motiongate where also constructed once The shell of the building was completed. Plus the Mummy Coasters at Universal were built in existing buildings.
Its certainly not a given we will see the ride hardware built first and then the building
Dobba
TS Member
The Construction Environmental Management Plan for this project states the building steel won't be delivered until weeks 35 to 60 of the projected 78 week construction period.
It's almost certain ride hardware will be built first, though maybe not to completion, before the building is.
AT86
TS Member
I’m not following the logic of waiting until the weather is better to open an indoor ride?
If its cold and bad weather the general public wont go. If this is a secret weapon then they will want a big event to open it and lets be honest how many non ethusiasts go in march.
Craig
TS Administrator
On the other hand, wait until May and you risk teething problems raising their head and disappointing those non enthusiasts who normally only visit once or twice a year.
Anything other than a start of the season opening has historically been due to technical issues or construction problems (or in Wicker Man's case a few days due to unseasonal snow!). You want people to make that start of season visit. The earlier it is the more likely they return that same year.
Poisson
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Giant Squid
13 and Wicker Man had huge crowds in March. Advertise it and they will come.
Craig
TS Administrator
On the marketing front, regardless of how they build the thing, there'll be some sort of coverage from the myriad of websites and social media accounts that exist these days.
It's gonna happen to some extent no matter how the ride is built, and even though it's not working directly with the park it forms part of the hype for a new ride. I'm also not a fan of this vilifaction of certain vloggers who cover these things within completely legal means. If you don't like their content, then just don't watch it. But like it or not, there's an audience there and they're raising awareness of what's going on at the park. A positive thing in my view!
Sure the way these things are covered has changed over the years, but even long before vloggers became a thing, enthusiasts have always found ways of discovering what's going on. It's up to the park's marketing team to adapt their marketing strategy and market to the general public on their terms. And while we try to cater for both ends of the spectrum here on the forum, it's up to you lot who want to remain spoiler free to adapt as well
It's gonna happen to some extent no matter how the ride is built, and even though it's not working directly with the park it forms part of the hype for a new ride. I'm also not a fan of this vilifaction of certain vloggers who cover these things within completely legal means. If you don't like their content, then just don't watch it. But like it or not, there's an audience there and they're raising awareness of what's going on at the park. A positive thing in my view!
Sure the way these things are covered has changed over the years, but even long before vloggers became a thing, enthusiasts have always found ways of discovering what's going on. It's up to the park's marketing team to adapt their marketing strategy and market to the general public on their terms. And while we try to cater for both ends of the spectrum here on the forum, it's up to you lot who want to remain spoiler free to adapt as well
Rob
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
The answer to this is thousands! If only enthusiasts went to the park in March then it would be completely empty every single day.
Towers generally aim for the start of season for new rides and I don't expect this to be any different, unexpected delays permitting.
cactuselves
TS Member
Not posted in a long while, but given what we now know, I would be AMAZED if Project Horizon is not an RMC and similar to Fire in the Hole 2. There are lots of things pointing that way.
1. John Burton saying 'Can we cut the camera, we cant be talking about anything potentially on the horizon' and then drinking out of an RMC mug.
He is creative director on Project Horizon - there is no way that he's using this language by pure coincidence
He knows that enthusiast are all over details
Why would he suggest something that everyone would love only for it to be something else - that would be shooting himself in the foot - first law of public relations, don't promise high and under deliver.
2. Look at Fire in the Hole 2.0.
Fire in the hole 2 is a complete rebuild with a new warehouse, in a completely different location (it is a brand new ride)- total construction budget is 24m, however this includes a new area, new street and lots of theming so its budget isn't necessarily directly comparable - SDC are quoting budget for regeneration of an area of the park and they may throw more at the theming.
The building dimensions are more or less identical to Project Horizon - 70mx40mx19m tall
Its an RMC ibox indoor attraction - (which can be used to create a fantastic, thrilling, bespoke, tightly woven layout by the way, this isnt like Gangsta granny!) Look at some of the videos inside FITH2 on youtube. e.g.
From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8trdbKtNjJ0
3. Wardley saying that the next big thing is 'coming here' - he loves a show, its his biggest passion and the discussion was in regards to coasters / technology. FITH2 is the first time RMC have constructed an indoor coaster and their box track will allow more flexibility - there are probably some other tricks planned within the ride (I'm thinking other theming technologies, projection mapping and stuff we haven't thought about and no, not washing machine elements) that allow for the type of immersive attraction that Jon loves. I'm pretty certain that FITH2 type attractions will start popping up at parks all over the world which aligns with Jon's thinking that it is the next big thing
4. It think it could be awesome, it will have good throughput, allows for a thrilling, immersive family experience and will be one of a kind in this country at least. FITH2 has a splashdown which could add another element of fun. The RMC layout can be made to give a pretty unique ride experience and if the theming is done well (theme could be anything really!) then I think the park are on to winner.
I'm calling it here and now. If I'm wrong - oh well!
1. John Burton saying 'Can we cut the camera, we cant be talking about anything potentially on the horizon' and then drinking out of an RMC mug.
He is creative director on Project Horizon - there is no way that he's using this language by pure coincidence
He knows that enthusiast are all over details
Why would he suggest something that everyone would love only for it to be something else - that would be shooting himself in the foot - first law of public relations, don't promise high and under deliver.
2. Look at Fire in the Hole 2.0.
Fire in the hole 2 is a complete rebuild with a new warehouse, in a completely different location (it is a brand new ride)- total construction budget is 24m, however this includes a new area, new street and lots of theming so its budget isn't necessarily directly comparable - SDC are quoting budget for regeneration of an area of the park and they may throw more at the theming.
The building dimensions are more or less identical to Project Horizon - 70mx40mx19m tall
Its an RMC ibox indoor attraction - (which can be used to create a fantastic, thrilling, bespoke, tightly woven layout by the way, this isnt like Gangsta granny!) Look at some of the videos inside FITH2 on youtube. e.g.
From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8trdbKtNjJ0
3. Wardley saying that the next big thing is 'coming here' - he loves a show, its his biggest passion and the discussion was in regards to coasters / technology. FITH2 is the first time RMC have constructed an indoor coaster and their box track will allow more flexibility - there are probably some other tricks planned within the ride (I'm thinking other theming technologies, projection mapping and stuff we haven't thought about and no, not washing machine elements) that allow for the type of immersive attraction that Jon loves. I'm pretty certain that FITH2 type attractions will start popping up at parks all over the world which aligns with Jon's thinking that it is the next big thing
4. It think it could be awesome, it will have good throughput, allows for a thrilling, immersive family experience and will be one of a kind in this country at least. FITH2 has a splashdown which could add another element of fun. The RMC layout can be made to give a pretty unique ride experience and if the theming is done well (theme could be anything really!) then I think the park are on to winner.
I'm calling it here and now. If I'm wrong - oh well!
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
Not posted in a long while, but given what we now know, I would be AMAZED if Project Horizon is not an RMC and similar to Fire in the Hole 2. There are lots of things pointing that way.
1. John Burton saying 'Can we cut the camera, we cant be talking about anything potentially on the horizon' and then drinking out of an RMC mug.
He is creative director on Project Horizon - there is no way that he's using this language by pure coincidence
He knows that enthusiast are all over details
Why would he suggest something that everyone would love only for it to be something else - that would be shooting himself in the foot - first law of public relations, don't promise high and under deliver.
2. Look at Fire in the Hole 2.0.
Fire in the hole 2 is a complete rebuild with a new warehouse, in a completely different location (it is a brand new ride)- total construction budget is 24m, however this includes a new area, new street and lots of theming so its budget isn't necessarily directly comparable - SDC are quoting budget for regeneration of an area of the park and they may throw more at the theming.
The building dimensions are more or less identical to Project Horizon - 70mx40mx19m tall
Its an RMC ibox indoor attraction - (which can be used to create a fantastic, thrilling, bespoke, tightly woven layout by the way, this isnt like Gangsta granny!) Look at some of the videos inside FITH2 on youtube. e.g.
From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8trdbKtNjJ0
3. Wardley saying that the next big thing is 'coming here' - he loves a show, its his biggest passion and the discussion was in regards to coasters / technology. FITH2 is the first time RMC have constructed an indoor coaster and their box track will allow more flexibility - there are probably some other tricks planned within the ride (I'm thinking other theming technologies, projection mapping and stuff we haven't thought about and no, not washing machine elements) that allow for the type of immersive attraction that Jon loves. I'm pretty certain that FITH2 type attractions will start popping up at parks all over the world which aligns with Jon's thinking that it is the next big thing
4. It think it could be awesome, it will have good throughput, allows for a thrilling, immersive family experience and will be one of a kind in this country at least. FITH2 has a splashdown which could add another element of fun. The RMC layout can be made to give a pretty unique ride experience and if the theming is done well (theme could be anything really!) then I think the park are on to winner.
I'm calling it here and now. If I'm wrong - oh well!
Interesting thoughts, and a fair justification. I’m not wholly convinced that Project Horizon will be an RMC myself, but I can see that it’s certainly not an implausible idea by any stretch. Even though RMC have never done a dark ride roller coaster before, Merlin has recent form for choosing slightly unorthodox ride manufacturers and/or ride types for their attractions (for instance, who would have thought that Mandrill Mayhem, a family shuttle coaster, would have been a B&M Wing Coaster?), and the building dimensions being a good fit is something that I can’t argue with.
However, I would like to politely counter a few of the points you’ve raised:
- With regard to John Burton’s comments and actions in that video; I’m not saying that he isn’t teasing toward the actual ride, but I’d argue that it’s just as likely, if not more so, that he’s pulling our leg. The parks are very well versed in how to play us enthusiasts like a fiddle at this point, and they know exactly what storm they are causing by so much as mentioning those 3 letters. It’s not the first time that Merlin has teased us with mentions of “RMC” and it almost certainly won’t be the last. If we jump over to London and visit Thorpe Park, “RMC 2020” is still carved into a tree in the Colossus queue line, and the park’s scare maze Trailers had at least one pretty blatant reference to “RMC” within it when it first debuted. This had no bearing on any future installation at the park, as their upcoming roller coaster Project Exodus is not arriving until 2024 and has ultimately materialised as a Mack. Both of these references generated quite a bit of discussion and engagement within the enthusiast community. I’m not saying that Burton isn’t teasing towards the actual contents of the ride, but in my eyes, his references towards RMC almost felt a little bit too blatant to not be pulling our leg based on past evidence, so I’m personally sceptical that he is teasing towards RMC with his comments.
- I won’t deny that the building dimensions of Fire in the Hole match Project Horizon’s quite closely, and that does provide an interesting piece of evidence in favour of an RMC dark ride roller coaster. However, I’m not sure that Alton Towers would necessarily go for an exact duplicate of Fire in the Hole’s layout, so the building dimensions may be different if the ride type was built for a different park. I’d also say that the Fire in the Hole project and the advent of this new model from RMC almost seem like a labour of love and a very specific project request from Silver Dollar City rather than something RMC necessarily expect to sell en masse like their IBox and Raptor coasters. Furthermore, just because the building dimensions match Fire in the Hole quite closely, that does not mean that they couldn’t match another ride type.
- As for John Wardley’s comments; I would personally take anything he says with a pinch of salt. I respect John Wardley enormously, and I am not trying to accuse him of lying or anything by any means, but since forging his new relationship with Merlin in the 2020s, he has said some things regarding upcoming projects that have at very least been strongly misinterpreted. For instance, many are still wracking their brains trying to work out what John meant when he said that “B&M [had] solved the shuttle coaster capacity problem” with Mandrill Mayhem given that the ride still only has 1 train and arguably has a lower throughput than the average shuttle coaster based on various anecdotes, seemingly only managing around 400pph. He also said various things about The Curse at Alton Manor and the upcoming Nemesis retrack that later proved to be, at very least, strongly misinterpreted by enthusiasts. John definitely seems to be an enthusiast ally, and he has been quite candid in previous conversations with enthusiasts, but he is now back working with Merlin in some kind of professional capacity, so he is always going to have the responsibility of positively marketing and hyping up upcoming investments. As such, I’d treat his comments in a very similar way to how you’d treat an official park source given that he is now back working with Merlin in some capacity.
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