Blackpool Pleasure Beach: 2023 Discussion

[Alexsniff7]

I have a big hot take:

Pleasure Beach isn't the "little seaside fairground" that I see some people online claim it is, it's a major UK amusement park, sure it's not a theme park like Alton Towers but neither are many other parks in the UK and they never get the "price is too high" debate. Sure BPB is a little pricy but I personally think everything inside is reasonably priced so it's an ok trade off

 

[rob666]

Friday is stayover break changeover day Rick, people either arrive or leave, so don't have a full day to spend on the Beach.

 

[Rick]

I have a big hot take:

Pleasure Beach isn't the "little seaside fairground" that I see some people online claim it is, it's a major UK amusement park, sure it's not a theme park like Alton Towers but neither are many other parks in the UK and they never get the "price is too high" debate. Sure BPB is a little pricy but I personally think everything inside is reasonably priced so it's an ok trade off

I completely agree that lumping BPB in with all other seaside parks doesn't make any sense, that's what we discussed last week.

I am not convinced BPB is a little pricy ... there are very few days of the year where you can't experience ten pretty large rides with ease - so even if you have paid £40, if your metric is price per ride paid, that's still pretty good value to me.

Friday is stayover break changeover day Rick, people either arrive or leave, so don't have a full day to spend on the Beach.

Maybe, but it's still the busiest weekday on the park (in my experience?). No ?

 

[Alexsniff7]

I completely agree that lumping BPB in with all other seaside parks doesn't make any sense, that's what we discussed last week.

I am not convinced BPB is a little pricy ... there are very few days of the year where you can't experience ten pretty large rides with ease - so even if you have paid £40, if your metric is price per ride paid, that's still pretty good value to me.


Maybe, but it's still the busiest weekday on the park (in my experience?). No ?

Also people ask for the walk-around pass to return and while I would not be opposed to it (in fact I would rather like it) I think the arguments are weak sometimes

"Oh if there is 4 of us and one doesn't like rides then we can't go" doesn't that apply to any uk park then? why does only BPB get the stick for this?

 

[Craig]

Also people ask for the walk-around pass to return and while I would not be opposed to it (in fact I would rather like it) I think the arguments are weak sometimes

"Oh if there is 4 of us and one doesn't like rides then we can't go" doesn't that apply to any uk park then? why does only BPB get the stick for this?

Because the park is an attraction within a resort which already has a lot of things to do. Most go to Blackpool for the seaside, the Pleasure Beach for most is an added extra to their day/weekend/week away, so they're already fighting for people's wallets.

There's also the issue that access to the park was previously free/cheap for those that didn't want to ride so a precedent has already been set in the decades before the switch to a single fee for entrance. The nostalgia factor with Blackpool also means people are also far more likely to visit with multiple generations of the family at Blackpool too, and your 75 year old gran ain't likely to see value for money on a £50 entrance price.

 

[shakey]

Also people ask for the walk-around pass to return and while I would not be opposed to it (in fact I would rather like it) I think the arguments are weak sometimes

"Oh if there is 4 of us and one doesn't like rides then we can't go" doesn't that apply to any uk park then? why does only BPB get the stick for this?

Because when people go to Alton towers they are going to the park. So they probably won't take Grandma and Grandad.

But when people come to Blackpool they are not necessarily just going for the pleasure beach. Whole families come for all sorts of reasons and the pleasure beach may only be part of it. So if they can't get Grandma and Grandad (or anyone else that isn't a ride fan) in for a nominal fee then they may well look elsewhere.

Attendances have definitely dipped since 2018 , when the walk round pass went up to £10.

EDIT : craig beat me to it !!

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[Alexsniff7]

Because when people go to Alton towers they are going to the park. So they probably won't take Grandma and Grandad.

But when people come to Blackpool they are not necessarily just going for the pleasure beach. Whole families come for all sorts of reasons and the pleasure beach may only be part of it. So if they can't get Grandma and Grandad (or anyone else that isn't a ride fan) in for a nominal fee then they may well look elsewhere.

Attendances have definitely dipped since 2018 , when the walk round pass went up to £10.

EDIT : craig beat me to it !!

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yeah fair enough I guess - I agree with you when it is put like that

 

[Rick]

@shakey (and others) I would be interested to hear your guestimations on the following metrics to see how much we differ :

• The % of visitors that used the entry pass prior to its demise
• The % split of visitors who only visit the park* vs. those who visit Blackpool for several days and take on the whole Smörgåsbord of attractions in the town.

*or that the park is their primary destination ... but they may visit something else for a short time / eat / drink elsewhere. Like with our Jolly Boy's trip ... last time we spent two days on park, drank (too much) in a few places and went to that pinball place - the whole trip was essentially built around PB.

 

[rob666]

I'm too old for metrics, I can only do imperials.
Mainly the minty ones.
I would say the entry only ran at around 25% of the people on the park.
They stopped doing the Smorgasbord at the Ship in Freckleton back in the eighties, which is miles from the Beach...I didn't know they did them in Blackpool as well.
Does anyone do blackpool for more than 3 or 4 nights now though?
36 hours leaves me feeling all dirty and bleak.

 

[shakey]

@shakey (and others) I would be interested to hear your guestimations on the following metrics to see how much we differ :

• The % of visitors that used the entry pass prior to its demise
• The % split of visitors who only visit the park* vs. those who visit Blackpool for several days and take on the whole Smörgåsbord of attractions in the town.

*or that the park is their primary destination ... but they may visit something else for a short time / eat / drink elsewhere. Like with our Jolly Boy's trip ... last time we spent two days on park, drank (too much) in a few places and went to that pinball place - the whole trip was essentially built around PB.

Questions that I only have anecdotal evidence for so I could of course be wrong.

Yes, the jolly boys revolves around the park but we are park fans .

They already have scanners in place that they use (for some bizarre reason) so the only question that needs answering is...

Would the park make more or less money if the walk round pass (at £5 . Not £10) was brought back ?

Now unless non riders are stumping up £40 in their droves or all those families with non riders are still coming and leaving Grandma behind, then the answer has to be , they are making less money . And even if people are leaving non riders behind that's still lost revenue for the park on entry and secondary spend.

Maybe the scanners are their because the walk round pass will return. Who knows.

It just seems odd that they are using the scanners but not allowing non riders cheap entry.







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[Rick]

@shakey you just went full Ed Miliband on me ... ditched my questions and asked/answered your own !

A lot of your musings are the basis of my questions ...

Now unless non riders are stumping up £40 in their droves or all those families with non riders are still coming and leaving Grandma behind, then the answer has to be , they are making less money . And even if people are leaving non riders behind that's still lost revenue for the park on entry and secondary spend.

I am not convinced that there were droves of non riders to begin with, but from this it suggests that you think there might have been ? If there was a huge market for the Pleasure Beach Pass / Diamond Thingy, I am not convinced that they would have got rid of it.

If for example ... the split was 98% wristband / 2% Pleasure Beach Pass (the latter of which I suspect is on the high side) and you worked on the basis that the average revenue for a wristband was £30 (after group visits, season passes, discounting etc) and a PBP was £10 (which was the peak). And for simple maths we'll work on attendance of 500,000

Wristbands - 490,000 guests @ £30pp = £14,700,000
PBP - 10,000 guests @ £10pp = £100,000
Total Revenue = £14,800,000

Then ... you remove the PBP offering. With those assumed numbers, you only have to bring a third of the grannies back at full price to maintain your revenue. That doesn't sound unachievable to me, neither does attracting 1 additional rider for every three bag carriers that you lost to make it up.

Goodness knows why the scanners are there - but if they were going to bring the Pleasure Beach Pass back, I feel like they would have done so by now. If they sold that many, it made that much difference to the bottom line and there are that many people not coming back because of it, who spent lots of money on park, it makes no sense to me that they wouldn't offer it.

 

[rob666]

The only reason for stopping the Diamond Pass was covid...got that from the lovely admissions manager (since gone) who promised my wife one full wristband because her diamond pass was paid for but not actually issued...she never got that wristband!
Lots of people had the entry ticket, far more than one in fifty, in my humble opinion.
You haven't got a third of the grannies into the park any more though, simply hasn't happened...they are all on the piers, and in the Velvet, supping gin.
You must have lost 90% of the non riders.
The park used to have a full mix of ages, not any more, kids to thirties in the main.
The non riders tend to have a bigger secondary spend...arcades, shop junk, food and strong lager all get consumed while the others are in the queues.
It is granny that often treats the grandkids to the ride photo, and all those grandparents who took the grandkids to nickland in the afternoon off peak, a fifty quid trip for three became over a hundred.
There is no sense to the park though, the scanners don't make sense, the ice show doesn't make sense, the fluid pricing doesn't make sense.

 

[Rick]

@rob666 I completely agree that COVID was the motivating factor in their removal, but we're way beyond that now. If they were that much of a money spinner, saw vast popularity etc - why haven't they returned ?

My best guess is that they didn't sell all that many, removing it flattened their ticketing model to make it more straightforward to market + administrate and that they were confident that :

a) the numbers were low enough that the losing them wasn't a big deal
b) that they could upsell people that bought those tickets to E-Tickets
c) a hybrid of the two

I am sticking with the 98% / 2% mix. Curious to understand your guess @rob666 @shakey

 

[shakey]

@rob666 I completely agree that COVID was the motivating factor in their removal, but we're way beyond that now. If they were that much of a money spinner, saw vast popularity etc - why haven't they returned ?

My best guess is that they didn't sell all that many, removing it flattened their ticketing model to make it more straightforward to market + administrate and that they were confident that :

a) the numbers were low enough that the losing them wasn't a big deal
b) that they could upsell people that bought those tickets to E-Tickets
c) a hybrid of the two

I am sticking with the 98% / 2% mix. Curious to understand your guess @rob666 @shakey

I would guess more like 5% , especially in holidays.

But you also have to factor in that losing one non rider could lose you 3 or 4 riders aswell, because they all choose not to go in and spend their cash on the piers where they can all be together.

Even if the loss is minimal, when you have scanners in place it seems mad not to offer a non rider option.

There could possibly be another factor as to why attendances seem to be dropping.

Family attractions.

We may want the park to build a new thrill machine and it is already 5 years since icon, but when was the last family attraction added ?

Ten years since Wallace and Grommet . And technically that was a retheme. You have to go back to 2011 for the last new family ride addition. And since then we've also lost the monorail and tea cups.

Families make up a big chunk of the visitors and the park are stagnating on ride offerings , be that thrill or family rides, especially when you compare it to somewhere like Poultons that seem to add rides on an almost yearly basis.

Even small parks like Fantasy Island or Great Yarmouth regularly update their attractions.

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[Rick]

5% seems too high for me, but I guess we won't know unless someone in the know spills the numbers.

I am not convinced that attendances are dropping in any meaningful way - I just don't see it. Nor do I buy that families are going to the pier for a day out because you have to pay for grandma on the beach. There's just no equivalence between the two experiences. I think people are more likely to suck it up and pay for the non-rider, or leave them at home or the B&B - I honestly do.

The presence of the scanners is weird, I totally agree about that, but I don't buy that they should implement something that they think is damaging to the bottom line because the they have the technology to do so.

It's certainly true that the number of new rides has been dropping in previous years, but I think the line up remains pretty solid. If you're talking about 'true' family rides, I think refreshing them is less important given that they market to such a narrow demographic that is forever changing. If you were 5 when Wallace & Gromit was introduced, you're 15 now and don't care about that ride, but a kid who is 5 now has no idea that the ride is 10 years old.

 

[Alexsniff7]

We may want the park to build a new thrill machine and it is already 5 years since icon, but when was the last family attraction added ?

Ten years since Wallace and Grommet . And technically that was a retheme. You have to go back to 2011 for the last new family ride addition. And since then we've also lost the monorail and tea cups.

Families make up a big chunk of the visitors and the park are stagnating on ride offerings , be that thrill or family rides, especially when you compare it to somewhere like Poultons that seem to add rides on an almost yearly basis.

Even small parks like Fantasy Island or Great Yarmouth regularly update their attractions.

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i think they spent the past few years just throwing everything at valhalla so now that's done with we might get something

 

[Matt N]

On a broadly related note, Coastercal on CoasterForce, who is a taxi driver in the local area who often transports Pleasure Beach staff, revealed some interesting info about 2023 visitation to Pleasure Beach that they had ascertained from conversations with employees: https://coasterforce.com/forums/threads/wtf-bpb.46255/page-4#post-1156969

They said:

• Average attendance is a lot less than it used to be. The highest day of attendance the park has seen this year is 9,000 guests, and on many days, the park has seen under 1,000 guests.
• The Hot Ice Arena has a capacity of 1,600 guests, but has been pulling in less than 10% of that figure on most nights of the week.

This does paint a concerning picture, and it does imply that Blackpool's guest figures are a lot lower than I had previously thought... with the park being the 2nd most visited park in Europe and by far the most visited in the UK during the mid-2000s, I had previously assumed that the park's attendance was still at least level with that of somewhere like Alton Towers, if not even higher.

 

[rob666]

2nd most visited in Europe???
Really?
Lies, damn lies and statistics!
Would love to see the real, audited figures.
As a Beach happy clapper, I just cannot believe that.
And if Hot Ice is running at 160 per show, that wouldn't even cover the basic staff costs, let alone running the hole that it is shown in.
And Rick, how dare you leave gran behind in the B&B...when she has been so kind in storing all your coaster junk.
Shame on you.

 

[Rob F]

Anyone have any idea on when we may expect dipper to reopen? It looks ready anyone seen any testing recently? Going Sunday so hope shes opens

 

[Alsty]

Nor do I buy that families are going to the pier for a day out because you have to pay for grandma on the beach. There's just no equivalence between the two experiences. I think people are more likely to suck it up and pay for the non-rider, or leave them at home or the B&B - I honestly do

I can only speak anecdotally here, but last year my parents looked after the grandkids for a week and were looking at places to take them. Pleasure Beach was one of the options they considered, but as my mother doesn't ride anything and would still have to pay full price to go in, they decided to do something different instead. As a result Pleasure Beach lost out on two junior wristbands, one adult wristband, and secondary spend from food and drinks.

Still, it was good news for a local tourist attraction who got their custom instead