Blackpool Pleasure Beach: General Discussion

[Plastic Person]

Perhaps it's worth noting that BPB have been operating this model for a decade or so now, and have inherited a whole new audience in that time who can't recall the days of PPR, or it's associated percieved value. In that respect alone, it wouldn't make sense for the park to go backwards on this.

 

[shakey]

Perhaps it's worth noting that BPB have been operating this model for a decade or so now, and have inherited a whole new audience in that time who can't recall the days of PPR, or it's associated percieved value. In that respect alone, it wouldn't make sense for the park to go backwards on this.

In that case why not scrap PPR completely and save money on running the wristband system.


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[RoyJess]

The problem I see, is that the pleasure beach is situated at a seaside resort, they are trying to market it and run it like a theme park which it isn't . A theme park is usually situated in the middle of nowhere and has to pull in day guest to make it work. With a pleasure beach situated at the seaside, then the tourist that you are pulling in are either day trippers or holiday makers.

Holiday makers don't book in advance and will plan their week purely based on the weather, and the day trippers decide last minute to visit on the day subject to the weather, especially when the weather is very nice.

If I went to the beach on a nice day, I would want to spend the day on the beach enjoying the sunshine, then probably take a look around the seafront once I'm bored with sitting down on the beach. For most families day tripping would probably visit the pleasure beach for a couple of hours as part of their day trip and not for the whole day. So the PPR works well for the day trippers where as the wrist bands work well for those of us theme park enthusiast that have specially taken a trip to Blackpool to ride the rides.

There will also be families where not everyone wants to ride the rides including as already mention the elderly, so they will be unwilling to pay the entry fee, so the family will just simply turn around and go on the pier and pay for the odd ride or two.

Also people visiting for the day, will probably want to look around first to see what rides are available, before being tempted to purchase either wrist bands or individual ride tickets.

 

[Plastic Person]

In that case why not scrap PPR completely and save money on running the wristband system.

I think it's largely to do with The Big One. There are still people who visit Blackpool on a group trip, and consider riding it a sort of rite of passage. They're willing to pay too, hence the extortionate fifteen quid pass, or however much it is. The rest of the options are just there for parents, guardians and so on.

 

[shakey]

Holiday makers don't book in advance and will plan their week purely based on the weather, and the day trippers decide last minute to visit on the day subject to the weather, especially when the weather is very nice.

And this is exactly why the 20% increase in gate price to £39 is a bad move. They are obsessed with advanced bookings which many people simply do not want to do, and the gate price is clearly too high.


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[Rick]

What @Plastic Person said, but also to support the value proposition of a wristband - "I'd be an idiot to pay £15 to go on Icon once when we can go on all these rides all day for less than double that.

This is standard across the industry. A one day ticket to any of the parks at WDW is £200. A 7-day ticket is £53/Day a 14-day ticket is £27 per day. If someone pays for a one day ticket, Disney wins - if John Doe from Delaware brings his family for the week, he's saving a ton.

And this is exactly why the 20% increase in gate price to £39 is a bad move. They are obsessed with advanced bookings which many people simply do not want to do, and the gate price is clearly too high.

How many people? What is the net revenue loss associated with these visitors? What is their demographic?

Advanced bookings make this industry work or not work in 2018. They are right to be obsessed.

 

[shakey]

How many people? What is the net revenue loss associated with these visitors? What is their demographic?.

Answers that nobody knows. The only way the park can find out if the gate price is too high is by reducing it for a season and seeing if revenue goes up or down.

One thing is clear, the park is currently no where near as busy as they expected it to be and they need the summer season to be a big success, or I may not live long enough to see the next big coaster installed!!


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[Rick]

Answers that nobody knows. The only way the park can find out if the gate price is too high is by reducing it for a season and seeing if revenue goes up or down.

The modelling that they have done will have helped inform the price. They have the ability to reduce it - it wouldn't be the first time they have changed it mid-season if it's not working.

For my own interest, would you reduce the online rate by the same percentage as the walk up rate?

One thing is clear, the park is currently no where near as busy as they expected it to be and they need the summer season to be a big success, or I may not live long enough to see the next big coaster installed!!

That might be true, but if the park has a long-term strategy (which they do) to grow and change their business model over the next few years, success is not measured in the weeks after the opening of a new ride.

 

[Ash84]

I would agree with you Rick, if the system wasn't already in place and being used, but it is, it's just priced in such a way only a nut would use it.

Coincidence or not, I have just got off the phone to my parents, and after the happy father's day stuff we got on about Icon, to cut a long story short, my mum wants a go, they would both like to meet up with Emma, Luke and I, have a ride on Icon (my dad isnt up for it anymore, the lap bars on the Nash nearly finished him a couple of years ago)

But she certainly isn't going to pay £21 plus another £6 get get my dad into the park. Now if they got the entry fee back in food and drinks vouchers as I suggested she may be more inclined to pay £5 for a ride on Icon (and the chances are once in the park my dad would gladly get back on the Dipper and Streak at let's say £3 a go)

Besides, they don't want to shell out for the entire day on park, a lot of people just want a few rides. BPB are totally missing out on customer's like that and as a result, my mum is unlikely to go on (I don't see her losing any sleep over it) but BPB are missing out her potential income, plus anything else either of them would go on, how many times a day is that happening?

As I said, I'm not asking for a reverse to PPR, keep both systems running together as they are now, just actually make it so people who don't want a wristband don't feel ripped off.

 

[shakey]

That might be true, but if the park has a long-term strategy (which they do) to grow and change their business model over the next few years, success is not measured in the weeks after the opening of a new ride.

I am sure it is a long term strategy and that is what's concerning.


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[Tom]

Let's not forget the examples of free entry surviving and possibly thriving - Fantasy and Adventure Island. However, I'd like to know what the average spend per guest was under free entry and pay-per-ride, versus now. Then taking into account the park's operating costs in addition to the 7 versus 1 million (for arguments sake) attendances, it'd be interesting to see if they are better off now. I guess they have to be based on how adamant they are that they are not going back to the old system.

Regardless of what you think is best for the Pleasure Beach, clearly the owners are reasonably confident in the current setup going forward, considering the investments they have and continue to make.

 

[Rick]

I would agree with you Rick, if the system wasn't already in place and being used, but it is, it's just priced in such a way only a nut would use it.

I feel like I am on the Astroswirl with this conversation! It's not designed to be used in high volumes. It's designed to demonstrate the value of the wristband system and provide an alternative for those people who wish to ride a single ride, ensuring someone doesn't come into the park for free, spending a fiver on a single ride before leaving.

But she certainly isn't going to pay £21 plus another £6 get get my dad into the park. Now if they got the entry fee back in food and drinks vouchers as I suggested she may be more inclined to pay £5 for a ride on Icon (and the chances are once in the park my dad would gladly get back on the Dipper and Streak at let's say £3 a go)

What's the £21 associated with? Regardless, I don't think £6 is too much for entry to the park with the rides/attractions that it includes. It serves its purpose in terms of offering a deterrent to those who wish to enter to cause trouble.

In terms of offering a rebate on the entrance fee... The £6 entrance fee is currently £6 revenue without cost with supplementary spending on top. Under your suggested system the £6 entrance fee would be £6 revenue minus the cost of the food/drink.

If you offer an option to ride coasters via a 'back door' that is directly in competition with your wristband price, those visitors who don't want to ride much, but who would currently spring for a wristband will inevitably spend less by adopting the PPR option.

Besides, they don't want to shell out for the entire day on park, a lot of people just want a few rides. BPB are totally missing out on customer's like that and as a result, my mum is unlikely to go on (I don't see her losing any sleep over it) but BPB are missing out her potential income, plus anything else either of them would go on, how many times a day is that happening?

I would put to you that it's not as many as you think it is - because I think a lot of families will pay low £20s per person to enter the park for a good portion of the day, with all attractions being available to them, regardless of how many rides they will take advantage of - it's no different than any other park (the key difference being they can pay 20% of the wristband fee to ride nothing, if they choose to!)

Plus, the park are trying to demonstrate through their pricing and entrance policy that they offer a full/multi-day experience and that the park is no longer somewhere that you nip in to to ride a couple of coasters.

As I said, I'm not asking for a reverse to PPR, keep both systems running together as they are now, just actually make it so people who don't want a wristband don't feel ripped off.

But you can't do that, for the reasons that I have explained a hundred times.

I am sure it is a long term strategy and that is what's concerning.

Enthusiasts are giving Merlin hell for being short-term, Pleasure Beach are now getting it in the neck for being strategic. As per my previous post - would you lower the price of pre-booked wristbands?

It'd be interesting to see if they are better off now. I guess they have to be based on how adamant they are that they are not going back to the old system.

It is likely not a case of being better off now, it's a case of finding the system & product that suits the current visitor number profile, historic spending & its associated revenue and how that transpires in the P&L.

 

[Sm1lingAdvocate]

£6 is a small price to pay to escape the drunkards, and my family are willing to go back to pleasure beach whereas no one in my family (me included) wanted to step foot back in Skeggeh because of FI audience.

 

[shakey]

As per my previous post - would you lower the price of pre-booked wristbands.

I think 10 days in advance is too much so I would change that to 7 and charge the following...

7 days in advance £23
Night before £26
Gate price £29




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[ScottPBE]

Something to consider, since the entry fee was put in place, Pleasure Beach have invested a lot on new attractions and changes around the park, if the entry fee was the big issue for the park then I doubt we'd have seen so much investment. I don't know why Pleasure Beach is quiet right now, but I am pretty confident that it will get busier in the coming weeks and then be very busy throughout the summer season, and then onto the illuminations. I can agree with the theories of doing something different with the entry fee, maybe anyone who pays the £6 fee gets a coffee/cup of tea or hot dog/burger thrown into the deal.

The PPR prices are high, but they have been for ages and this isn't going to change, Pleasure Beach would rather guests bought wristbands, especially if they are buying them in advance.

The entry fee has allowed Pleasure Beach to put on school trips and group visits, the entry fee makes the park a safer environment to do those kind of trips and I do believe school trips are good for BPB to host, plenty of secondary spend to be had there.

Do I think scrapping the entry fee is beneficial? No!

Do I think a PPR system alongside the wristband system would work now? No, I really don't, even if the prices were dropped I don't think it would be something that would make a huge difference, I think if people are going to go in and do the rides, they're going to buy a wristband.

Opening times? The late night openings have been a huge success, but the fireworks are a huge contributing factor along with the live acts etc, I am not confident 9pm/10pm closes every Saturday night would be as popular as many of us like to think.

Pleasure Beach do a lot of marketing research, using their target audience to see when people want to visit, what opening times they want and so on, I am confident they know what's best for the park but I do agree that seeing it as quiet as it has been at times since Icon opened is a concern.

 

[shakey]

I agree with a lot of what you say Scott but the trouble with their market research is that I suspect it is probably all done by emailing out to people who have visited the park and booked in advance, so in a sense they are preaching to the already converted.

They are not going to get any opinions from the people who simply refuse to come to the park because the gate price is too high or who turn up in the afternoon and don't come in because the park is closing early or who want to just do a couple of rides but don't bother because the ticket price is too high.

Regarding the gate price, I believe it is now the highest of any park in the country by some distance (if you take into account the readily available half price vouchers for Merlin parks), and considering Blackpool is a seaside park with lots of potential walk up trade then that has to be a bad move by the park. They may as well just stick a sign up that says "If you haven't booked in advance then you are not coming in!"

 

[venny]

Walk up for Adventure Island is £30, Paultons £34, Fantasy Island £22 high season. All cheaper than BPB. However you can argue they all offer considerably less in value against the available rides than Pleasure Beach.

I think that whilst we discuss how BPB can gain more from passing trade, it might be the case that there just isn’t a structure which perfectly suits both models - you either tailor your business to one or the other. It appears that Pleasure Beach have made their choice in that respect and that choice will have been driven by commercial considerations. Given that they had previously run the same model for a century, switching to wristbands will not have been a decision they took lightly.

In this instance I think you are never going to please everyone. It is frustrating for those of us who want to see BPB do well when they appear to be turning away potential custom. What is more difficult for us to see is the amount of additional custom the wristband model has generated (either via advance sales, the increase in park security/environment etc).

In a way it’s a question which will never be answered. If BPB could still get the crowds of the 90s, generating record profits, then they surely would retain that model. The fact is that they couldn’t, so they had to change. It’s not to everyone’s taste, but if it is the difference between a successful park and a dying one, I’ll take it.

As to why it’s been so quiet, other than some marketing faux pas, is a little difficult to understand. Especially since the weather has been so consistently good. It is these sorts of circumstances which throw the wristband model into the spotlight, but it’s clearly not practical to change the entire model due to a slow couple of months. It may however spur a rethink or tweaking to make the value proposition of on-the-day a little more attractive.

Like other have said, adding something into the entry fee to make it more attractive may work, but it may also attract the ‘wrong’ clientele if not done correctly. Perhaps just better communicating what you get for the entry fee would improve things. If you think you’re getting 2/3 attractions (dare I count the fountain?) for your £6, and this can be effectively communicated, it should look like a better deal to some people. I think at the moment a large proportion of people view it just as an entry fee.

If you can effectively communicate the value proposition in that £6, I think you’ve overcome the biggest hurdle. Those people will then generate an increase in secondary revenue and might even buy a wristband once they can ‘see’ what it gets them.

 

[shakey]

Walk up for Adventure Island is £30, Paultons £34, Fantasy Island £22 high season. All cheaper than BPB. However you can argue they all offer considerably less in value against the available rides than Pleasure Beach.

Poultons at £34 was the highest I could find but still £5 cheaper than BPB. And that's a park that will have very little in the way of walk up trade. I visited there in 2017 and thoroughly enjoyed it. Very clean and well presented, some good family thrills and Peppa Pig world is fantastic for younger kids. And as far as I know it doesn't have a fast track system either (which is another good thing IMO). It is not a park for the out and out thrill seeker but perfect for the family market.

 

[Spin-Ride-Lover]

Opening times? The late night openings have been a huge success, but the fireworks are a huge contributing factor along with the live acts etc, I am not confident 9pm/10pm closes every Saturday night would be as popular as many of us like to think.

I don't want to put words into your mouth or anything, I seem to remember you saying last season on the old forum You thought PB would do away with the fireworks and May see more late closes.

What made you change your mind?

On Vampire beach last October I was speaking to Amanda about this and she said If Blackpool got busy enough they would open in the dark more, wherther that means more NTR's or just open in the dark more as the norm again I don't know.

All I know is as things stand the 7pm closes IMO are crap really

 

[MakoMania]

All I know is as things stand the 7pm closes IMO are crap really

Not for an Alton Towers forum