Blackpool Pleasure Beach: General Discussion

[Spike]

I challenge someone to beat 1680

Rode it a few months ago - 2240

:-*

Damn it, the time penalty is a killer!

It is a genuinely well themed ride though

I thought so. The original version of the Ghost Train when it was new was fantastic. Then it was just left to rot.

 

[MiserableMonkey]

RideRater reports:

Blackpool Pleasure Beach records £500,000 loss

Blackpool Pleasure Beach made a bottom-line loss of £524,000 for the financial year ending April 2012.

The Holdings – which includes the amusement park, Big Blue hotel and the South Shore Mutual Insurance Company – suffered the loss despite revenue actually increasing by 7% on last year.

The figures are the first released to include the introduction of the Nickelodeon Land themed area and its new rides in 2011.

A profit of more than £300,000 was recorded in the previous financial year.

Managing director Amanda Thompson said: “Since weather during the key 2011 season was materially worse than that of the 2010 season, this is considered to be the main reason for the shortfall in sales compared to budget.”

TheBusinessDesk.com website reports that a cost-cutting exercise is currently underway, and the company expects to make an even heavier loss for the current financial year.

It is widely expected that some of the less popular attractions are to remain closed during the 2013 season, which begins initially on weekends starting 9 February.

Pleasure Beach has not released visitor numbers since free admission under a pay-per-ride basis was removed in 2009.

Source

So the park made a loss for the year April 2011 - April 2012, which was the same year they introduced Nickelodeon Land.

The park has debts of around £20m, after the loan for Wallace and Gromit. I'm not sure how accurate that figure is as it was from a free company check website last year.

How long can the park keep going like this? ???

 

[MiserableMonkey]

I find the debt the park has held to make interesting reading, if of course this is anywhere near accurate. The park's liabilities according to DUEDIL are as following:

• 1996 - £27,904,000.00
• 1997 - £25,572,000.00
• 1998 - £28,433,000.00
• 1999 - £42,872,000.00
• 2000 - £46,463,000.00
• 2001 - £41,722,000.00
• 2002 - £39,606,000.00
• 2003 - £38,439,000.00
• 2004 - £43,192,000.00 (Amanda takes over)
• 2005 - £40,977,000.00
• 2006 - £37,433,000.00
• 2007 - £36,388,000.00
• 2008 - £26,778,000.00
• 2009 - £23,473,000.00
• 2010 - £21,618,000.00
• 2011 - £25,207,000.00

[sub](Sorry for the double post, wanted to add this to previous post)[/sub]

 

[Tom]

I worry about the park's future in the medium and long term. Conservatives typically destroy things by refusing to move with the times. I know the park has along and glorious history under a Conservative family's ownership, but I think the ship will sail soon without major and pioneering new ride/attraction.

Like what I suspect alton Towers are doing with SW7, they need to revert to the 'old ways' and build a record breaking ride to draw people back in. Any source of funding is going to have to come from another loan, which makes it really unlikely.

 

[Anonymous]

How much longer can the park last with little to no investment? I thought Nickeloden Land was a turn round for the park and on the up obviously this isn't the case. Regarding the weather im pretty sure 2012 had some pretty decent weather?

 

[Plastic Person]

I find the debt the park has held to make interesting reading, if of course this is anywhere near accurate. The park's liabilities according to DUEDIL are as following:

• 1996 - £27,904,000.00
• 1997 - £25,572,000.00
• 1998 - £28,433,000.00
• 1999 - £42,872,000.00
• 2000 - £46,463,000.00
• 2001 - £41,722,000.00
• 2002 - £39,606,000.00
• 2003 - £38,439,000.00
• 2004 - £43,192,000.00 (Amanda takes over)
• 2005 - £40,977,000.00
• 2006 - £37,433,000.00
• 2007 - £36,388,000.00
• 2008 - £26,778,000.00
• 2009 - £23,473,000.00
• 2010 - £21,618,000.00
• 2011 - £25,207,000.00

[sub](Sorry for the double post, wanted to add this to previous post)[/sub]

To be fair to Amanda, that's what happens when your Father is a sweet talking, regionally beloved cowboy who built an empire of sand.

Shocking figures though. PBB has a very special place in my heart, and I actually think bar the lack of actual thrill ride investment, Mands has picked up her slack. Nickelodeon Land is exceptional and the park looks and feels better than ever. Unfortunately, I'm beginning to wonder if a sale might be necessary sooner rather than later.

 

[BigT]

I worry about the park's future in the medium and long term. Conservatives typically destroy things by refusing to move with the times. I know the park has along and glorious history under a Conservative family's ownership, but I think the ship will sail soon without major and pioneering new ride/attraction.

Like what I suspect alton Towers are doing with SW7, they need to revert to the 'old ways' and build a record breaking ride to draw people back in. Any source of funding is going to have to come from another loan, which makes it really unlikely.

You realise how what you have written contradicts itself don't you? Conservatives mess things up by not moving with the times - they need to revert back to old ways!

Looking at those figures unless I'm missing something they have halved the debt in the last 10 years, I'd say that's pretty good considering the economic climate the last five years.

 

[Tom]

I worry about the park's future in the medium and long term. Conservatives typically destroy things by refusing to move with the times. I know the park has along and glorious history under a Conservative family's ownership, but I think the ship will sail soon without major and pioneering new ride/attraction.

Like what I suspect alton Towers are doing with SW7, they need to revert to the 'old ways' and build a record breaking ride to draw people back in. Any source of funding is going to have to come from another loan, which makes it really unlikely.

You realise how what you have written contradicts itself don't you? Conservatives mess things up by not moving with the times - they need to revert back to old ways!

Looking at those figures unless I'm missing something they have halved the debt in the last 10 years, I'd say that's pretty good considering the economic climate the last five years.

They need to revert to the old ways in terms of choosing a certain type of ride.

 

[Alastair]

I think the consensus among BPB fans is that the introduction of the £5 entry charge is a massive contributory factor to the park's decline. People that originally would have wandered into the park later into the evening to do a few rides are suddenly put off, and therefore visitor numbers decrease and park opening times are cut. It's a vicious spiral that has continued until today when we see 6pm closures sometimes in comparison with the 10-12pm closures 10 years ago.

 

[TheMan]

That does make concerning reading doesn't it.

Of course no one here is attesting to their total accuracy, it's well found as it is! However, if they are close even, that's an incredible amount of debt.

I hope they have an upturn in fortunes - makes installing the W&G ride make sense in many ways. Not too expensive, quite high profile IP, should please the family market nicely.

Let's hope this year is a great one for them.

EDIT:

I think the consensus among BPB fans is that the introduction of the £5 entry charge is a massive contributory factor to the park's decline.

That wouldn't surprise me at all mate. It also changed the landscape of that entire end of the promenade. It was part of Blackpool, you went up that end for a wander round, to grab something, a ride or two on days that you weren't having the whole day there. Inevitably ended up spending, even those not going on anything.

It's a strange one, it's one of the main draws for Blackpool, aside from the Tower and Lights - it's strange that it is now almost isolated in a way.

 

[thefatone]

Regarding the weather im pretty sure 2012 had some pretty decent weather?

The weather in 2012 was abysmal. Entire of may, a fair bit of sept and oct wiped out. But this is on about 2011.

Introducing the charge made the park more family friendly, easier to secure and run, and judging by the debt compared to 10yrs ago, more profitable. They must've been losing a fortune with midnight closes, no matter how busy it seemed to be with people milling about. Least those milling would've actually spent something now.

 

[Spike]

If indeed those debt figures are accurate then Amanda has done a brilliant job reducing it by 20million in this tough climate. The minimal investment - excluding Nik Land - over the years has been for a reason - Not to accrue more debt.

The park has been receiving a make-over in the last 5 years in place of new attractions as a whole. There have been substantial losses to the line up though and I feel it may continue if they are to reduce the level of debt.

I think Amanda has proven herself to be a shrewd business women. It's no secret that she borrowed half the money from Blackpool Council to construct Nik Land meaning that there's no heavy interest rates and the Pleasure Beach's survival is key to Blackpool so it's also a shrewd investment by the Council - Just as Merlin's takeover was.

Geoffrey Thompson was a spendthrift, building things which were out of the PB's league in financial terms, but he was in it for the love of the park and didn't care how much it cost, hence the high debt of the park. It's a catch 22 situation though, if he hadn't have dragged the park into debt with PMBO & Valhalla, would the park still be surviving to date?

I say give it another few years when the debt deficit is reduced some more I think she may splurge a little on something big. For now, Wallace & Gromit will provide a filler.

 

[TheMan]

Agree Spike entirely with your post. Particularly this bit:

Geoffrey Thompson was a spendthrift, building things which were out of the PB's league in financial terms, but he was in it for the love of the park and didn't care how much it cost, hence the high debt of the park. It's a catch 22 situation though, if he hadn't have dragged the park into debt with PMBO & Valhalla, would the park still be surviving to date?

At no point when those things were being built did they feel out of place for a park like BPB - those figures are shocking and as you say, Mandy has done a very decent job in reducing that debt, but you can only do that so long before you need to build something special to bring visitors in.

It's a two way thing with Blackpool I think, more people go because of the PB, but also, more visit the PB because they are going to Blackpool. I don't think either would survive without the other, they've been so closely integrated for so long now.

It deserves to be a success though, I love the place, and if Amanda has actually rescued it from potential financial meltdown, then she really does deserve some thanks and recognition in this aspect.

 

[Spike]

At no point when those things were being built did they feel out of place for a park like BPB - those figures are shocking and as you say, Mandy has done a very decent job in reducing that debt, but you can only do that so long before you need to build something special to bring visitors in.

It's a two way thing with Blackpool I think, more people go because of the PB, but also, more visit the PB because they are going to Blackpool. I don't think either would survive without the other, they've been so closely integrated for so long now.

It deserves to be a success though, I love the place, and if Amanda has actually rescued it from potential financial meltdown, then she really does deserve some thanks and recognition in this aspect.

They were out of place financially like I said. Both rides cost - as near as damn it - £12million and for the time would match the cost of SW7 (more for PMBO). So they were out of their league and left the park in debt.

I think the recession has helped Blackpool, oddly. More people have holiday'd locally in the UK and Blackpool's numbers rose sharply during the last 4 years. Although they dropped off last year.

The struggle I feel is going to come within the next few years.

 

[TheMan]

Don't get me wrong Spike I get what you mean, all I was saying is for a park that size, they didn't feel out of place, and therefore I doubt anyone thought much of it at the time.

Big park, big investment, those figures are a shock to me for sure and I've followed it for decades now. I think you are also right about the "stay-cation" side of things. When people start going abroad again, they could be in some right trouble.

I hope not, we need BPB doing well! The only thing I think is, that Blackpool Council would be unlikely to let it go under, as it is bound to contribute massively to the local economy.

Blackpool without a Pleasure Beach, that's just not Blackpool is it?

EDIT: My worst fear on this, aside from it going under, is Merlin getting their hands on it. It is the last main competitor and they are creeping into Blackpool. It would be amazing on the pass of course, but I'd far rather we had more successful independent parks.

Somehow however, I think it is inevitable...

 

[Alastair]

Don't get me wrong Spike I get what you mean, all I was saying is for a park that size, they didn't feel out of place, and therefore I doubt anyone thought much of it at the time.

Big park, big investment, those figures are a shock to me for sure and I've followed it for decades now. I think you are also right about the "stay-cation" side of things. When people start going abroad again, they could be in some right trouble.

I hope not, we need BPB doing well! The only thing I think is, that Blackpool Council would be unlikely to let it go under, as it is bound to contribute massively to the local economy.

Blackpool without a Pleasure Beach, that's just not Blackpool is it?

EDIT: My worst fear on this, aside from it going under, is Merlin getting their hands on it. It is the last main competitor and they are creeping into Blackpool. It would be amazing on the pass of course, but I'd far rather we had more successful independent parks.

Somehow however, I think it is inevitable...

I know Merlin taking over would be bad for the UKTP industry in general because of the dominance issue - but I can't help but feel it would be brilliant for BPB. An arm like BPB for Merlin would be huge and the amount of investment they could put back into the park would make their market dominance worth it IMO. They also seem to know a thing or two about how to advertise for maximum effect - something Blackpool desperately needs at the moment.

 

[Dave]

Generally i think BPB has done great under Amanda, it has had the benefit of public money grants which i don't believe any other major park has had but hey if you can get it why not. She has smartened the park, sorted its finance and added a professional twist. The only major thing i think she got wrong was the £5 entry charge.

Now they are investing in the lucrative family market and boosting the parks general image, in many ways BPB was starting on a downward spiral in regards to "aesthetics" but its very much on the up now. Hopefully Amanda will prove to be as passionate as her father was with maybe a little bit of business savy as well.

She is a character in the theme park world, not something you can say of anyone in Merlin as they hide behind the corporation.

 

[TheMan]

For the good of its survival and future, it makes sense in ways, but it just does not feel right to me - and I would hope that Blackpool themselves, would take it on before Merlin did. I agree that Merlin would invest, and gobble up that debt, but they have enough and I think at a point we as consumers need to make sure as best as possible - not matter how it may even benefit us in terms of entry etc, that some healthy competition is maintained.

They really would be a monopoly at that point, and manager/leadership changes - it's too precarious a position I think by that point to have all those parks under the charge of essentially one person/vested interest.

Don't forget who backs Merlin, giant corporate venture capitalists ultimately.

Though your points are completely understandable and very, very logical of course.

 

[TheMan]

She is a character in the theme park world, not something you can say of anyone in Merlin as they hide behind the corporation.

That is very true Dave, also of course, she is obviously respected with her getting onto the board of (however you spell it) this year - so she will be getting some excellent connections for the park.

 

[Dave]

If you mean IAAPA then yes i imagine she is though the Thompson's are already well connected to IAAPA (and the MACKS it seems). I just like the fact it's still a family run park which is rare for big parks these days.