Blackpool Pleasure Beach: General Discussion

[jon81uk]

Alton's queues were worse in the nineties than they are now. You could easily expect to wait a couple of hours for Nemesis or Oblivion on an average Saturday.

The long queues have just moved rides. Instead of Nemesis and Oblivion getting the two hours or longer queues, its now The Smiler and WickerMan.

At Blackpool I agree that ticket sheets distributed crowds better than wristbands, also as has been said, if people are paying per ride then a breakdown means they stop getting money.

 

[CGM]

Didnt the dome end up costing over five hundred quid per visitor in terms of costs versus visitor numbers?
Love reading up on the world fairs and expositions.
The New York site is still full of concrete follies from both fairs.

Not quite, more like £120 per head. Still far from an insignificant amount though.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

It had 25 boats when it opened and could in theory operate with them all - they certainly tried to during 2000.

The difficulty with the ride is all down to blocking - which is strange on the surface as it's largely free flowing throughout most of the course (run outs are quickly cleared post drop, lifts can dual occupy, etc) - all the complexities come from the two turntables, (#1 being more problematic than #2). They settled on 18 being the absolute maximum number of boats and it regularly ran 14 until 2002/2003.

The station speed is variable to aid loading, if you batch in the queue line, it's not too difficult to run a high number of boats - the difficulty comes when you have a stoppage on one of the turntables and things begin to back up.

"Ladies and gentlemen inside the ride, please remain seated, an operator will be with you shortly", amazing that they never bothered to record that.

It’s disappointing that a ride which is basically a log flume only tends to run 6-8 boats.

Imagine Splash Mountain running on 6 boats, doesn’t bear thinking about. Surely Valhalla can’t be getting more than about 300 per hour now.

 

[John]

Further info on boat numbers: Valhalla is programmed to only allow a certain number of boats between the top of each lift and the drop back to ground level - something like 3 in each section. I'm not sure if that was part of the original programming, but I can't see how they ever hoped to operate it reliably anywhere near full capacity if so.

Bonus fact - the ride won't let a boat go down both main drops at the same time, which is why you sometimes stop at the top of one of the drops for a few seconds.

 

[Dipper_Dave]

Just had a thought about Valhalla. Presuming that maintenance isn’t going on now behind closed doors, surely the season long closure of it could end up being even longer.

 

[Matt N]

Could Pleasure Beach potentially have changed elements of the refurbishment due to the financial impact of COVID-19?

Also, I'm very surprised that Valhalla didn't do as well as the park was hoping for in terms of visitor figures; I was under the impression that it was built in the so-called golden era when the park was attracting huge visitor numbers and making loads and loads of money, so I would automatically have assumed that an expensive ride like Valhalla would have been hugely successful?

As this is true, could the failure and long-term financial strain of Valhalla be one of the things that led to their financial downfall in the mid-2000s?

 

[MiserableMonkey]

I was thinking more of money, than the refurb being able to take place. With the park writing off Wow Weekends due to the abysmal weather, then closure due to lockdown, will their budget still be achievable?

 

[Matt N]

Another thing; I'm rather surprised that Valhalla was designed to be getting a throughput of 2000pph, as on the day I went last year, the throughput actually seemed quite low (well, the 2 hour queue seemed to move quite slowly, at least) in comparison to some other rides there; for example, I'd say the highest throughput ride at the park that day was probably Icon, and according to my Dispatch Timer app, that was achieving 844pph on 3 trains. Valhalla's throughput seemed quite considerably lower, so I'd assume that something may be preventing it from attaining a high throughput these days.

 

[Plastic Person]

Bonus fact - the ride won't let a boat go down both main drops at the same time, which is why you sometimes stop at the top of one of the drops for a few seconds.

Is this something to do with the volume of water in the shared splashdown zone? God forbid, anybody were to get wet on Valhalla.

 

[MiserableMonkey]

Another thing; I'm rather surprised that Valhalla was designed to be getting a throughput of 2000pph, as on the day I went last year, the throughput actually seemed quite low (well, the 2 hour queue seemed to move quite slowly, at least) in comparison to some other rides there; for example, I'd say the highest throughput ride at the park that day was probably Icon, and according to my Dispatch Timer app, that was achieving 844pph on 3 trains. Valhalla's throughput seemed quite considerably lower, so I'd assume that something may be preventing it from attaining a high throughput these days.

Valhalla was running with only 3 to 5 boats for a large part of last season, which is one of the reasons for the refurb now. Many, many issues with it, but mainly the lift hills suddenly being unable to cope with more than one boat on the lift at one time.

 

[Matt N]

Valhalla was running with only 3 to 5 boats for a large part of last season, which is one of the reasons for the refurb now. Many, many issues with it, but mainly the lift hills suddenly being unable to cope with more than one boat on the lift at one time.

Thanks for the clarification @MiserableMonkey! I think the sign in the station said that it was running 8 boats when I was there last August, which was quite good; I didn't log the throughput, but judging by the speed at which the queue was moving compared to other rides we rode, I would probably have said somewhere in the ballpark of 500pph, possibly less. It seemed to have periods where it moved at a reasonable speed, and then just stopped completely for about 10 minutes; I think the boats all sort of came in one big batch at a time and then had a long period in between with no dispatches.

I am rather perplexed as to why the ride is seemingly having so many issues (e.g. boats filling up with water, lowered throughput etc.) when other, similar Intamin flumes across the world operate relatively problem-free by comparison. Does Valhalla have other inherent issues in its design that these other Intamin flumes don't?

 

[Plastic Person]

Thanks for the clarification @MiserableMonkey
I am rather perplexed as to why the ride is seemingly having so many issues (e.g. boats filling up with water, lowered throughput etc.) when other, similar Intamin flumes across the world operate relatively problem-free by comparison. Does Valhalla have other inherent issues in its design that these other Intamin flumes don't?

Reputedly, the park forced Intamin's hand in order to make the system operate in ways that they were they desperate to resist. The ride takes place in a limited space, and while you have to respect some creative decisions, even Geoffrey Thompson couldn't bend the laws of physics.

 

[Rick]

I liked the dome.

I am rather perplexed as to why the ride is seemingly having so many issues (e.g. boats filling up with water, lowered throughput etc.) when other, similar Intamin flumes across the world operate relatively problem-free by comparison. Does Valhalla have other inherent issues in its design that these other Intamin flumes don't?

I think the reasons @Plastic Person outlined are a factor, but it's also fair to say there have been problems with that model. Six Flags gave up with theirs, Rio Bravo limps along. I think there's another in Asia somewhere.

Valhalla comes from a time where Intamin projects were notable if they weren't a disaster.

 

[Matt N]

Reputedly, the park forced Intamin's hand in order to make the system operate in ways that they were they desperate to resist. The ride takes place in a limited space, and while you have to respect some creative decisions, even Geoffrey Thompson couldn't bend the laws of physics.

I liked the dome.

I think the reasons @Plastic Person outlined are a factor, but it's also fair to say there have been problems with that model. Six Flags gave up with theirs, Rio Bravo limps along. I think there's another in Asia somewhere.

Valhalla comes from a time where Intamin projects were notable if they weren't a disaster.

Ah right, thanks for the clarification guys! If the park had the money, then I think a different ride system might perhaps benefit Valhalla; maybe a Mack Water Coaster, with the park's good relationship with Mack, would work? Or I'm sure Intamin would be capable of producing a more able ride system today with some of their more recent work being excellent; I'd argue that Valhalla was built before their real golden age as a manufacturer started.

That does beg a question, actually; if the Thompson family allegedly have such a good relationship with the Macks, why weren't Mack Rides bought on to build Valhalla? Some of their log flumes have turntables like Valhalla has, and they'd already opened one or two water coasters by the time Valhalla opened.

 

[Rick]

The closeness of the two families feels quite contemporary in a lot of ways. The park has three Mack rides (right?), two of which were built during Amanda's tenure. There's always a lot of conversation about how 'loyal' the park was Arrow - I think there was probably an element of loyalty, but it wasn't as if there were a ton of alternatives.

Plus, loyalty only goes so far if you're dealing with eight figure contracts.

The park had a great log flume at the time, so suspect there was little desire to create another. The closest Mack offering is their water coaster, but construction on Valhalla was already underway by the time the first opened. The former WDW Maelstrom ride is said to have some influence on Valhalla, Intamin built that too as I recall.

I owe Intamin days, or maybe weeks cumulatively for time I should have been working but the ride I was operating was dead.

 

[Dar]

They must have changed the programming, because I've definitely had a ride when a boat came down the other drop at the same time. Got utterly, totally soaked. Even worse than usual.

This was somewhere between 2004-2007; me, my dad, and my uncle decided it would be a laugh to just go round and round all day. We were on holiday in Blackpool for a fortnight and had season passes, so it seemed like a reasonable way to spend the day.

 

[John]

The park has three Mack rides (right?)

Four, assuming my data is accurate -
Icon, Avalanche, SpongeBob's Splash Bash & Backyardigans Pirate Treasure

Dora is from WGH, in case anyone was wondering.

 

[Rick]

Sounds right, I forgot Backyardians. I have never ever been on that ride, even in its former guise.

 

[Matt N]

Which ride is Backyardigans Pirate Treasure? I obviously know Avalanche and Icon, and I know that SpongeBob is a Mack Twist'n'Splash, but I've never seen Backyardigans, even having been to Blackpool and in Nickelodeon Land (albeit only briefly to ride the Streak, and Blue Flyer on my first visit) twice. The name would imply a pirate ship, but I don't think Mack builds pirate ships.

 

[John]

It's a (small) seastorm, between Avatar Airbender and Diego's Rainforest Rescue.