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Britain and foreign languages

Matt N

Matt N

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Hi guys. Sorry if this seems like a bit of a random topic, but as many of you know, I went to Germany last week to visit Europa Park for the first time. I had a brilliant time, but that’s besides the point of this thread.

I made this thread because I made a very interesting cultural observation while in Germany. And that is how much more tolerant of and knowledgeable about foreign languages they appeared than Britain.

For example; as someone who knows very little German (I attempted to get some basic grasp before going, but I couldn’t have a fluent conversation in German), I was able to get by fine in Baden-Baden airport. They had fantastic English signage, many of the employees spoke impeccable English or at very least made a commendable effort at speaking English; I had absolutely no struggles there, and I think very few English people would. And they also had a selection of signage catering to other languages, such as French and Dutch. And this isn’t exactly a huge, popular airport compared to some other German airports.

By comparison, London Stansted had very little to aid foreign tourists. All signage was in English, I heard no employees speaking other languages, and I can imagine it being a very intimidating environment for foreign tourists who don’t speak English.

Also, every EP employee we encountered spoke phenomenal English, even when they didn’t have English on their badge. I felt frankly ashamed at how little German I knew by comparison; I know a few very basic phrases, and I was able to understand things like numbers (for ride rows and such) over my time in Germany, but as I said above, I definitely couldn’t have a fluent conversation in German. And that made me feel absolutely appalled with myself; when these people are trying incredibly hard to speak English, why shouldn’t I be doing the same with German?

I can speak GCSE level Spanish, and I know some French (although not that much), so I do have some grasp of other languages, but I would certainly say that my only fluent language is English; I’m certainly not making myself out to be a saint in terms of foreign language knowledge, because I’m not. I think in future, I will aim to try and learn a fair amount of the language of the country I’m going to if ever I travel abroad, as I did feel quite bad at how little German I knew aside from basic phrases.

So I just wanted to make this thread to ask; why do you think it is that Britain seemingly has a much lower tolerance of foreign languages than other countries, and do you think it’s right that we don’t cater as much to foreign countries as they do to us?
 
Because we don't need to bother to learn other languages, because the rest of the world has learnt English!

It's mostly just an old carry over from Empire when if you wanted to trade with UK or America you pretty much had to speak the language, and is still aided by English being the de facto international language for a good few things, including aviation and another forms of transport, and the language of Holywood with its universal reach. You don't have to watch too many hours of subtitled TV to start picking up words and the rhythm of language.

We should be able to learn any Germanic language pretty easily as they share a lot of root words and structure. If you are interested in some of the history of the English language I reccomend you read Mother Tongue by Bill Byrson. Then read everything else by Bill Bryson, because everything he has ever written is excellent.
 
Yeah, basically, the world superpowers of the last couple of hundred years have been English speaking (Yeah, I know China are rapidly going for the title in recent times). And it's not only England and the USA who have English as their first language. As above, USA and English culture is consumed in massive quantities worldwide. I always try to learn the very basics of a foreign language when I go abroad though as it's helpful in some circumstances but also shows some respect to the natives.
 
I think it's both embarrassing and arrogant how English speakers just expect everybody else to speak English when you're in another country.

English is the most widely spoken language and is often the second one people learn where it's not their native language. One thing I found interesting is how Europeans even use English as a common language between them if they don't speak each other's language (e.g. a Dutch person speaking to a German person).

However in countries that speak English natively, there's generally a laziness and apathy to speaking other languages. I think it's disrespectful to not even learn the basics. It's also a shame as learning another language is rewarding and you learn more about the culture of the country you're visiting too.

That said, I'm not very good at languages... but I do try 😂
 
Completely, it really annoys me when I go abroad and others don't even learn the very very basics. Even just to learn "hello" and "thank you" is enough to show some respect, no one is really asking for anything else. But some can't be arsed to even do that and I find it pretty rude.
 
I struggle with English at the best of time, and despite my best attempts to learn German using a few different Apps, it just does not stick in my head.

I know the basics, Thank you, Goodbye, Do you speak English please?

I always feel embarrassed when someone speaks fluent English in a foreign country, and I wish I had worked harder to learn French when I was at school.

As others have suggested, we are spoilt in that most people learn English as a second language.
 
The other thing about languages is you do have to keep actively using them. If you stop using them for prolonged periods then it does fade away. You have to make an effort to retain the knowledge and that's why I think English speakers are so bad at it.

My German is better than my French, even though I did French for three years at school and German for only one year. However I have used German more recently, and French I have not used for over a decade.
 
I speak fluent French and have a solid grasp of German.

UK language skills are shocking.

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Just learning the basics works. I did an A Level in Spanish, and ever since I started working at Manchester Airport, it's occasionally come in useful. Such as when I had to explain to a woman from El Salvador that she couldn't take all her oversize liquids on the plane with her. Even the basic pleasantries in other languages can help people feel valued.
 
Alsty said:
The other thing about languages is you do have to keep actively using them. If you stop using them for prolonged periods then it does fade away. You have to make an effort to retain the knowledge and that's why I think English speakers are so bad at it.

My German is better than my French, even though I did French for three years at school and German for only one year. However I have used German more recently, and French I have not used for over a decade.
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same here. I was very good with French during my three years. Now I can remember about 5% of it.
 
As I've switched from travelling for leisure to traveling for work I've realised that as much as I hate it I've become that guy who only speaks in English. I'm very conscious of it and I'm always annoyed about it afterwards. But for practical reasons it just ends up being the best option.

Languages don't come naturally to me. I had to take additional English classes for spelling and grammar so I knew learning a second language would be an uphill struggle. But I was determined to learn German, which I've been doing the last 2 years. But I'm still nowhere near capable of holding a conversation. I can listen and string together the meaning of a sentence but I'd need a lot of real world practice to take it further.
Likewise I used to have colleagues in Germany who were the same with English. They could understand it but wouldn't often speak because they weren't sure how well they'd be understood.

And that's just one language. I'm currently working with people from Italy, Holland, Belgium, Germany, Korea, China and Malaysia. That's a lot of languages to confuse and muddle up. To the point that even simple phrases like Hello, Thank You and Goodbye end up causing confusion. So I've just kind of accepted to stick with English and if someone doesn't understand or the information is really important I just jump straight for the translation app.

The important thing is I have a lot of respect for anyone that can speak another language. Even if I'm not trying as hard as I could I at least let them know I'm grateful they've made the effort.
 
There are two issues with the UK and learning languages.

1) We don’t need to because of all the reasons mentioned above, it actually sometimes annoys me that when I go to Germany I try my German and they reply in English, the challenge to try is lost.

2) We don’t start teaching foreign languages until it is too late (was high school for me). I’m a scientist not an English expert but the rules of English are incredibly different to other languages (word order is more important and we don’t have masculine and feminine words). If you struggle with the theoretical language skills like I do then it’s a real burden. I have had the pleasure of listening to @AstroDan on many a holiday talk away in French or German but he is also incredibly fluent in the rules of language and the theories that underpin it. I am terrible at that and I think if you struggle with the academic application of language then 11 years old is too late to start learning. We need to get kids learning French and German from pre-school. On the other hand I know more quantum physics so there we go.

All that said I always try the basics and if nothing else I will say thank you in the native tongue.
 
People all over the world not only grow up learning English from a young age but they are constantly hearing it spoken in songs and films. English / US born musicians go on tour all over the world and everyone knows the lyrics.

Example: I once went to see Arctic Monkeys play in Madrid and you can hear the Spanish singing 'tackie bottoms tucked in socks'. Hahahahaha.
 
Alsty said:
The other thing about languages is you do have to keep actively using them. If you stop using them for prolonged periods then it does fade away. You have to make an effort to retain the knowledge and that's why I think English speakers are so bad at it.

My German is better than my French, even though I did French for three years at school and German for only one year. However I have used German more recently, and French I have not used for over a decade.
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Oh, this is definitely true, from my experience.

I did Spanish to GCSE level, so I do have a fair amount of Spanish vocabulary under my belt, but my GCSEs were 3 years ago now, and I haven’t had any real reason to use Spanish within the last 3 years. And I’d say my Spanish is definitely somewhat rustier now than it was 3 years ago, and given that I used the word “pues” (a Spanish substitute for “um…”) an awful lot in my GCSE speaking exam, I certainly wouldn’t have called myself a fluent Spanish speaker to begin with, even though I did have a fair grasp of some Spanish vocabulary from my GCSE education.
 
When I go to a country I try and learn the basics, please and thanks. I've tried learning other languages and I just can't. It's think it's just polite even if you can't speak the native language to at least say thanks as a mark of respect.
 
Certainly need to start learning foreign languages earlier. I didn't start until high school and then was able to drop it in the options for years 10/11(The last group that was able too). The idea of learning a foreign language then filled me with dread, and whilst a initially enjoyed it in the first year (I got French, some got German, you didn't have a choice of which one), I soon lost interest. Kind of wish I hadn't and stuck at it.

I do wonder whether Brexit will compound this apathy towards learning a foreign language, which is usually a European language, given some may think there is no point as we are not in Europe anymore😥

2 examples I can relate too on peoples experiences of foreign languages. I have a friend who is from Slovenia, and had never learnt any foreign languages, being from the deepest darkest depths of Slovenia where there wasn't much around. When he first came to the UK about 8 years ago, he could barely speak a word of English, just some basics, but through simply listening to what other people say and watching TV (Didn't do any courses or self teaching) he is now probably better than many natives. Does occasionally get stuck on trying to think of a word to describe something but it is rare).

Then I have a British friend, who went over to live in Hamburg in Germany about 5 years ago, having also spent a few years in France too. When I spoke to him last I enquired about how his German speaking skills were and he replied that he can't speak a word of German and there is no point as everyone speaks English anyway. I have suggested maybe he should try? His wife on the other hand (who is Bulgarian) can speak and write fluently in 5 different languages.
 
One thing is for sure, if you learn the right language properly fluently you can make a FORTUNE as a translator. Very very lucrative work.
 
As a complete school failure, I don't even understand English properly. You can probably tell this by the way I type. So I have a massive respect for many in the rest of the world who have learnt it from a young age and can speak relatively fluidly. Seeing some of the English spoken from Ukrainians on the news recently I've been really impressed with it. They speak my own language better than I do!

I also find it interesting how much modern media/the internet has an impact on our language and vocabulary from the US. I frequently read the word "gotten" on this very forum, a word that does not exist in British English. My eldest son the other day asked if he could get a drink from the "Gas Station" and my youngest son reffered to a footpath as a "sidewalk".

I was speaking to a Portuguese colleague not along ago and he said that, although other European countries learn British English from a young age, they find it very confusing when they're here due to regional dialects and the impact of American media. A Chilean colleague, who learnt the American version of English at school like South American countries do, said the same. Even at Europa, I remember reading signage with the letter Z where an S should be, Rulantica had a sign alluding to the disposal of "diapers" and a H&S warning on Atlantica read "It is not allowed to stand up on this ride".

I have the greatest respect for other countries who learn English. We seem to not bother here until we make a cursory attempt at secondary school. Like I said, I still struggle with it as it doesn't seem to make much logical sense and there's so many variations.

An Indian guy who works for me moved from London a few months ago and it took him weeks to understand what we were saying here in the west. He put it as "we learn English at school, but when we get here you all speak differently to what we were taught.".

In an accent the other day I said to him what sounded like (he recreated what it sounded like to him) - "Eee-ant goh-a clue. wha' eee dunt know 'bout needs sorrrt'n out. Sorrr 'im out la'errr yeah?". (Translation being - "He seems to be struggling with this. Will you kindly train him on this task later this evening please?")

Every other person around understood what I was saying. But it shone a light on just how bad our regional English (especially mine) was, how much we take it for granted and just how stupid and confusing this must sound to people who learn Queens English as a foreign language and are bombarded with American English in Movies and on YouTube. I used to work in Bradford and even only 4 hours away by car neither of us could understand each other when we'd had a few pints.
 
I remember a new girl starting at our secondary school from another area, and we all joked about her strange accent.
She came from five whole miles away, but you could tell her dialect was different to "ours".
 
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