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jon81uk
TS Member
I think the moan is more about a low capacity ride in a park already full of low capacity rides.
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Rob
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
I don't agree. I think most of us who are not overly keen on the prospect of this coaster at present have given valid reasons as to why that is. It is not moaning for the sake of moaning.
Benjsh
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Throughput concerns aside i don't understand the issue though. Vekoma boomerang coasters aren't great for throughput yet everyone is happy enough when those are built.
B&M's are amazing. In my eyes they are the top dogs still.
This coaster / new area will prove immensely popular will it not? Of course it will. Case closed.
AT86
TS Member
I expect it to be very popular.
And also very miserable for guest experience if Chessington’s historical operations are anything to go by.
This coaster has a theoretical throughput of around 750ph.
Compare that to the theoretical throughput of Dragons Fury and Rattlesnake of somewhere in the 900ph. The problem is the actual throughputs they get on these rides are more like 200ph.
Combine this with the fact it’s the shiny new thing everyone will want to ride and it will be a grim, slow moving wait.
And also very miserable for guest experience if Chessington’s historical operations are anything to go by.
This coaster has a theoretical throughput of around 750ph.
Compare that to the theoretical throughput of Dragons Fury and Rattlesnake of somewhere in the 900ph. The problem is the actual throughputs they get on these rides are more like 200ph.
Combine this with the fact it’s the shiny new thing everyone will want to ride and it will be a grim, slow moving wait.
Rob
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
For the record I cannot stand Vekoma Junior Boomerang's, I find them extremely dull. But they of course serve a purpose.
No doubt this will prove popular, and I guess from Merlin's point of view that is the most important thing. They have a bulk deal on high quality B&M coasters, so the cost is not as high as it otherwise would be. It will be reliable and it will age well. And I know the target audience will find it fun to ride. I would just have loved to see Chessington get a coaster with a longer layout, maybe a multi-launch, that would have had a better throughput and would have shown the UK audience that family coasters don't have to have short and bland looking layouts.
Alas, maybe that will come in the future.
The Big Mack
TS Member
Has this been confirmed anywhere?
Personally I'm expecting it to be around the 600pph mark as that's close to Swarm's throughput on one train. Whether or not it comes close to that is another story, knowing how families visiting Chessington like to faff during loading.
AT86
TS Member
It was part of the noise report in terms of how many trains would go around in an hour, think the throughput based on the number of seats was worked out to be around 720ph.
But as you say by the time little Jonny’s parent has lifted him into the seat, sat him down, strapped him in to check he is safe, but their bag in the rack, checked Jonny’s belt again on the way past, then sat down themselves down and then the whole thing in reserve at the end of the ride - I dread to think what the real world throughput will be!
jon81uk
TS Member
That's the issue, it will prove very popular, leading to multi-hour long queues and unsatisfied guests.
They needed a high-capacity full circuit coaster and a boomerang too.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
The Noise Impact Assessment stated that a train would be dispatched every 2 minutes, with the ride lasting 1 minute and the load/unload time being 1 minute. With the train seating 28 riders, this would place the theoretical at around 840pph.
As for why people are complaining about this ride and don’t complain about Vekoma Family Boomerangs; it’s probably worth noting that the target audience for this coaster is somewhat older than that of a Vekoma Family Boomerang. The height restriction is 1.2m, so it will naturally have an older clientele than something like Accelerator or Velociraptor. It even has an inversion, which is something that is typically associated with bigger thrill coasters. With that in mind, I can see why people were hoping for something a bit more inspired or unique. And that’s before you take into account capacity concerns.
For this type of coaster, B&M would not typically be your first choice, and given the price premium that typically comes with building a B&M coaster, I can see why people are questioning why they didn’t go for a different type of ride that could have given them more bang for their buck. It could be argued that a Wing Coaster was an especially surprising choice of ride system for a more compact ride like this given that they have quite big, wide trains that aren’t the most versatile.
With that being said, I think that B&M will provide them with clear benefits in terms of maintenance and build quality, and I also think that Mandrill Mayhem could be better than people expect based on what I’ve seen so far.
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Benzin
TS Member
Are they? Context is important and say for Liseberg their one is clearly a small addition to support the park and be one of a number of family rides. Even so I doubt there's many clamouring for another Boomerang being built somewhere.
Mandrill Mayhem is clearly the next icon coaster for the park; so it coming in with a questionable throughput is a peculiar business decision. Though we know from enough parks that often the decisions taken are often unconsidering of the situation on the ground.
Lol neither of those theoretical throughputs are correct. Regardless of poor operations in recent years Fury could only hit that with 8 cars which it hasn't run since opening year.
7 cars on Fury usually got you around 600-700 when I was working on it. No idea on Rattlesnake but that had more issues with loading even then. But the operations have deteriorated a lot since 2009 in my few visits since.
AT86
TS Member
But that is correct then isn’t it? When it opened with the number of cars it was designed for it could hit that throughput by your own confirmation. The fact it no longer runs with that many is part of the overall problem Chessington have with operations.
My point is simply that this coaster has a poor theoretical throughput from the start. That’s before you factor in Chessington’s poor operations that will inevitably reduce it in real world conditions.
Altonadvocate1
TS Member
B and M - Super reliable, super safe, super comfortable (usually), premium manufacturer. In my book, the best by far.
The layout isn't aimed at me and will probably be hugely popular with families. It makes sense to appeal to the widest demographic.
Don't think a shuttle layout is right for Chessington though.
The layout isn't aimed at me and will probably be hugely popular with families. It makes sense to appeal to the widest demographic.
Don't think a shuttle layout is right for Chessington though.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
What I would say is that B&M’s theoretical throughputs, from my experience, tend to be more realistic and attainable than most, and their coasters are often naturally easier to get a throughput on than those from some other manufacturers.
With that in mind, I could see Mandrill Mayhem getting quite close to its 840pph theoretical throughput. I could definitely see it being the highest throughput coaster at Chessington.
With that in mind, I could see Mandrill Mayhem getting quite close to its 840pph theoretical throughput. I could definitely see it being the highest throughput coaster at Chessington.
Ian
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Dizz, Bobby’s Yarn Land
I don’t think there’s any disputing the quality of the hardware. B&M remains the number one choice when it comes to that. It’s absolutely down to fitness for purpose, which I personally don’t think this is.
It’s like saying we’re going to get Rolls Royce to build a new Tube train because it’ll be very comfortable and reliable, but then it only has space for half as many passengers to make room for the leather armchairs they are now sat in.
Will it deliver a solid piece of hardware in a park lacking exactly that? Certainly. Will it be a misery to queue for due to low throughput? More than likely. Will guests enjoy the ride experience? Undoubtedly. Will it be worth the trade off if their total rides per day is reduced when they spend 90 minutes or more waiting for this? That’s the key question that we’ll have to wait and see.
I don’t know the ins and outs of Chessington’s park capacity, but if they do run close to their operating ceiling at the moment then at least the new ride and area will help spread guests across more attractions and ease some pressure on the existing infrastructure (assuming they don’t see the new area as a reason to raise the maximum capacity). I think it’s important to look at the impact it has on the guests day as a whole, not just a single attraction in isolation.
It’ll be progress at least, and hopefully investment will continue over the coming seasons to provide more overall capacity to the park. It’s one that really seems to creak when even remotely busy.
It’s like saying we’re going to get Rolls Royce to build a new Tube train because it’ll be very comfortable and reliable, but then it only has space for half as many passengers to make room for the leather armchairs they are now sat in.
Will it deliver a solid piece of hardware in a park lacking exactly that? Certainly. Will it be a misery to queue for due to low throughput? More than likely. Will guests enjoy the ride experience? Undoubtedly. Will it be worth the trade off if their total rides per day is reduced when they spend 90 minutes or more waiting for this? That’s the key question that we’ll have to wait and see.
I don’t know the ins and outs of Chessington’s park capacity, but if they do run close to their operating ceiling at the moment then at least the new ride and area will help spread guests across more attractions and ease some pressure on the existing infrastructure (assuming they don’t see the new area as a reason to raise the maximum capacity). I think it’s important to look at the impact it has on the guests day as a whole, not just a single attraction in isolation.
It’ll be progress at least, and hopefully investment will continue over the coming seasons to provide more overall capacity to the park. It’s one that really seems to creak when even remotely busy.
RicketyCricket
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Taron
@Matt N
From the testing videos, the ride is 1 min 5 secs long. Add on another 10-15 seconds for dispatch and parking you're looking at 1.20 secs.
That gives them roughly 40-45 seconds to unload and load a full train to achieve the theoretical throughput of 840pph. There is absolutely no way that is going to happen.
Add in the RAP and Fastrack queues and the normal queue will be lucky to get 500 pph.
Think even the Queens mourners per hour queue would be quicker!
From the testing videos, the ride is 1 min 5 secs long. Add on another 10-15 seconds for dispatch and parking you're looking at 1.20 secs.
That gives them roughly 40-45 seconds to unload and load a full train to achieve the theoretical throughput of 840pph. There is absolutely no way that is going to happen.
Add in the RAP and Fastrack queues and the normal queue will be lucky to get 500 pph.
Think even the Queens mourners per hour queue would be quicker!
Poisson
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Giant Squid
I have mixed opinions on boomerangs. Something like a GIB is worth it and some of the Vekoma family units are great as they're cheap for smaller parks or as filler attractions. The main issue is this is the new flagship.
A sliding track/twin station boomerang would solve the issue and most complaints will be nullified but they didn't opt for this. A park like Parque Warner Madrid can get away with their GIBs low throughout as it has high capacity B&M coasters and a decent capacity (I think it can be anyway?) Woodie in park already. Chessie does not have this luxury.
A sliding track/twin station boomerang would solve the issue and most complaints will be nullified but they didn't opt for this. A park like Parque Warner Madrid can get away with their GIBs low throughout as it has high capacity B&M coasters and a decent capacity (I think it can be anyway?) Woodie in park already. Chessie does not have this luxury.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
Fair enough; I was simply going off of the values given in the Noise Impact Assessment, which implied that both the ride time and load/unload time would be exactly 1 minute. That inferred that a train would theoretically be dispatched every 2 minutes, thus placing the theoretical throughput at 30 trains per hour or 840 riders per hour.
With your values in mind, I could maybe see them dispatching a train every 2m 20s or so (I think 1 minute for park time is reasonable; I’ve seen an operations video where Swarm manages this) which would lead to 25/26 trains per hour or 700/728 riders per hour. Based on previous anecdotes, I believe that would place it as Chessington’s highest throughput coaster and one of their highest throughput rides overall.
Even if you assumed a pessimistic scenario of a train every 3 minutes (which would make the park time nearly 2 minutes; that seems like a very pessimistic estimate to me), that would still equate to 20 trains per hour or 560 riders per hour, which, based on the recent anecdotes I’ve heard, would comfortably beat Rattlesnake and Dragon’s Fury and might roughly match Vampire.
With regard to RAP/FT; I know people often moan about the impact of these two queues, but it might be worth remembering that these queues do take people out of the main queue, so while the main queue moves more slowly (which could admittedly increase the perceived time it takes), there will be less people in it, so the time won’t be that different (in theory at least).