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TheMan
TS Member
Re: Chessington World of Bad Ventures
This is the thing, I never really got to experience Beanoland lol! Wild Asia hardly makes me go WOW though. At least it doesn't make me go, urgh, however like some new themes do!
But to replace that? Renovation, with sympathy to the existing brilliance. I don't understand why this is not seen as the sensible option.
Oh look, a beautiful art deco fireplace - let's rip it out!
I have now renamed the place:
Chessington World Of Bad Ventures.
Now featuring the new "improved" C***s Cauldron.
DiogoJ42 said:
This is the thing, I never really got to experience Beanoland lol! Wild Asia hardly makes me go WOW though. At least it doesn't make me go, urgh, however like some new themes do!
But to replace that? Renovation, with sympathy to the existing brilliance. I don't understand why this is not seen as the sensible option.
Oh look, a beautiful art deco fireplace - let's rip it out!
I have now renamed the place:
Chessington World Of Bad Ventures.
Now featuring the new "improved" C***s Cauldron.
DiogoJ42
TS Member
I like to think of it more along the lines of people are finally starting to wake up and see what I've been saying for yearsDave said:EDIT: think i have started channeling Diogo
OK, but apart from that, what have the Romans ever done for us?Islander said:
E
electricBlll
Re: Chessington World of Bad Ventures
The area may not impress you as much because of its small size and the aim towards younger visitors, but surely with your pronounced ability to admire theming you can appreciate the 'artistry' that went into the transformation? Such as the close attention to detail based on real Indian/South Asian cities, like how Dragon River was inspired by real landmarks, yet exaggerated in places to give a fun theme park twist. Most of Beanoland's flaws were solved with inspired, original ideas, keeping the area's fun atmosphere but adapting it to Chessington's retro "wild" image.
Wild Asia was the first part of Chessington's 5-year plan after Merlin restructured it, but you and others ignore it because it doesn't fit into your blanket view that Merlin is flat-out ruining the park. And, since you bring up Count's Cauldron again, I'd like to again point out that 80% of its lush themework was actually removed years ago, it's not a new thing; all they have done this year is take off the false frontage and repainted the interior walls.
If those rotting stone faces and manky rocks were "stunning" in your opinion, then how come giant snake statues and a taking elephant "hardly make you go wow"? Oh yes - because Wild Asia was not designed by John Wardley or BigAl or built twenty years ago, therefore it isn't fashionable for enthusiasts to praise it.
I'm sentimental about Dragon Falls too, but the view that it can never be as good as it was in 1987 just demonstrates a lack of imagination...
For somebody so vocal about your passion for Chessington, I'm confused as to how you can totally overlook Wild Asia. Surely you have "seen pictures" like you have with original Dragon River and realised the difference between then and now - like how out of place and worn out Beanoland was?TheMan said:
The area may not impress you as much because of its small size and the aim towards younger visitors, but surely with your pronounced ability to admire theming you can appreciate the 'artistry' that went into the transformation? Such as the close attention to detail based on real Indian/South Asian cities, like how Dragon River was inspired by real landmarks, yet exaggerated in places to give a fun theme park twist. Most of Beanoland's flaws were solved with inspired, original ideas, keeping the area's fun atmosphere but adapting it to Chessington's retro "wild" image.
Wild Asia was the first part of Chessington's 5-year plan after Merlin restructured it, but you and others ignore it because it doesn't fit into your blanket view that Merlin is flat-out ruining the park. And, since you bring up Count's Cauldron again, I'd like to again point out that 80% of its lush themework was actually removed years ago, it's not a new thing; all they have done this year is take off the false frontage and repainted the interior walls.
If those rotting stone faces and manky rocks were "stunning" in your opinion, then how come giant snake statues and a taking elephant "hardly make you go wow"? Oh yes - because Wild Asia was not designed by John Wardley or BigAl or built twenty years ago, therefore it isn't fashionable for enthusiasts to praise it.
I'm sentimental about Dragon Falls too, but the view that it can never be as good as it was in 1987 just demonstrates a lack of imagination...
CoasterCrazyChris
TS Member
Even if they rebuild the theming like for like (unlikely) it won't ever feel the same because it won't be the original 1987 creation...
Benzin
TS Member
Unfortunately the optimism that came with Wild Asia vanished after the next few planned additions fell through the roof (Monkey and Bird Garden refurb as an example)... They just didn't take the advantage as 2010 was a very good year for the park...
If they can do stuff to the level of Wild Asia (which really was a decent retheme of the area, not perfect but it does work), rather than the likes of 'Africa' then why can't Chessie make things better or as good?
The inside of Burger Kitchen does look crap mind, seems to be part of the Merlin way of their in-house stuff (indeed, name me an actual themed in-house eatery these days), though I really don't mind the outside look of it as it suits the Village section of Translyvania more than Count's Cauldron's cartoony look at the theme...
It's all apples and oranges really... But all they need to do with Falls is bring back the rockwork (it won't be the same of course, but hopefully done with better materials that will last longer due to modern manufacturing techniques, OH LOOK IT'LL BE BETTER!), add stuff on the top to look at/hide buildings and then it's done... Hell, some theming in the tunnel wouldn't go amiss either...
There are much, much more flawed areas of the park mind then Burger Kitchen and Falls mind...
If they can do stuff to the level of Wild Asia (which really was a decent retheme of the area, not perfect but it does work), rather than the likes of 'Africa' then why can't Chessie make things better or as good?
The inside of Burger Kitchen does look crap mind, seems to be part of the Merlin way of their in-house stuff (indeed, name me an actual themed in-house eatery these days), though I really don't mind the outside look of it as it suits the Village section of Translyvania more than Count's Cauldron's cartoony look at the theme...
It's all apples and oranges really... But all they need to do with Falls is bring back the rockwork (it won't be the same of course, but hopefully done with better materials that will last longer due to modern manufacturing techniques, OH LOOK IT'LL BE BETTER!), add stuff on the top to look at/hide buildings and then it's done... Hell, some theming in the tunnel wouldn't go amiss either...
There are much, much more flawed areas of the park mind then Burger Kitchen and Falls mind...
Dave
TS Founding Member
Wild Asia wasn't done by Merlin Studios, it was an external company (think it might have been the same people who did Raptor Attack at LWV). That said Studios proved they can theme well with Raptor at Garda, Swarm and Sharkbait Reef... They just don't always put everything into a new theme (like Th13teen).
E
electricBlll
Yes that's right, but I can't remember the name; they had a website at one point but I can't find it.
The majority of theme parks hire external companies to do everything, and it has been Chessington's normal procedure since 1987. The company that built most of Transylvania, Mexicana and Forbidden Kingdom was "Ministry of Art Construction", and the Mystic East sculptures were by "Sculpture Studios". Obviously the projects themselves are designed and commissioned by the park.
Chessington hardly ever use Merlin Studios for obvious reasons, but I'm not sure whether Merlin Magic Making is involved or not... Are they the same thing or separate departments?
The majority of theme parks hire external companies to do everything, and it has been Chessington's normal procedure since 1987. The company that built most of Transylvania, Mexicana and Forbidden Kingdom was "Ministry of Art Construction", and the Mystic East sculptures were by "Sculpture Studios". Obviously the projects themselves are designed and commissioned by the park.
Chessington hardly ever use Merlin Studios for obvious reasons, but I'm not sure whether Merlin Magic Making is involved or not... Are they the same thing or separate departments?
Benzin
TS Member
All they need to do is hire JoraVision or Neverland...
If they did that, any new theming would automatically be better than the old... Simple as... That won't happen, but even the same company as Wild Asia wouldn't be a bad thing...
When Studios charge what they do it's obvious why Chessie go elsewhere... It's such a stupid system really as it doesn't promote anything aside from other companies... Surely your internal design team should be the first choice? But it isn't because BUDGETS...
If they did that, any new theming would automatically be better than the old... Simple as... That won't happen, but even the same company as Wild Asia wouldn't be a bad thing...
When Studios charge what they do it's obvious why Chessie go elsewhere... It's such a stupid system really as it doesn't promote anything aside from other companies... Surely your internal design team should be the first choice? But it isn't because BUDGETS...
joelpagett
TS Member
Chessington are trialing a new meal deal.
Try our great NEW food package and save up to £6.95*
Our Family Meal Deal allows you to grab a meal (including drinks) for each member of your family for just £5 per person.
Offer only available when booked in advance
Valid for one use 30th March – 27th April
Only available to families of 2 - 6 people
PLUS 5 free donuts per transaction.
http://www.chessington.com/plan-your-trip/family-meal-deal.aspx
Sounds like a good idea if you want to budget your trip!
Try our great NEW food package and save up to £6.95*
Our Family Meal Deal allows you to grab a meal (including drinks) for each member of your family for just £5 per person.
Offer only available when booked in advance
Valid for one use 30th March – 27th April
Only available to families of 2 - 6 people
PLUS 5 free donuts per transaction.
http://www.chessington.com/plan-your-trip/family-meal-deal.aspx
Sounds like a good idea if you want to budget your trip!
TheMan
TS Member
Re: Chessington World of Bad Ventures
I wont quote everything else you wrote, there's more false conclusions in it than a game of Cluedo.
I love it when conclusions are jumped to in here haha ;D
I'm not remotely sentimental about Dragon Falls. There is no sentiment attached to Chessington, I live over 3 hours from the place and have only visited it 3 times.
I don't find Wild Asia at all inspiring. None of it made me go wow. I couldn't give a monkeys who designed it. The rides in there are generally tat, and it is more or less my least favourite area of the park - probably due to other than bumper cars, there is nothing in it I like. I also find the area too open, where as Chessington on the whole feels very cosy and intimate.
I'm not saying it is a bad area, just it is one I do not like. Likewise, Dragon Falls, especially in the early days was gloriously brilliant for ONE RIDE.
Unlike yourself, I have no preconceptions, attachment, or sentiment with the place at all other than appreciating the place for what it is. It grabbed me very quickly.
As for Counts Cauldron I am on about the interior design, which appears to have had beautiful chairs, facades and goodness knows what else removed - and exterior repainted in a WEIRD colour.
You know mate, your post contained just a bit too much edge for my liking. I didn't dismiss Wild Asia, just expressed an opinion of it. Much like I defended other peoples rights to maintain their OWN meanings of what CWOA meant to them art wise...
Ironic you bought that up, when I didn't actually express a view other than it is a subjective one, and cleverly done, which allowed people to experience it in their own way.
Personally? I just like the place, and recognise something a bit special when I see it.
Oh and my "blanket" view is based upon what I am experiencing as a result of Merlin, and whilst others walk around with the blinkers on as to what they are up to business wise - I just observe and call it as I see it, much like 3 or 4 years ago I had NOTHING but praise for them.
Please don't put me into a bracket of someone incapable of thinking outside the masses. I've been around the corporate and service world long enough to spot problems like this a mile away. Not exactly hard.
electricBlll said:
I wont quote everything else you wrote, there's more false conclusions in it than a game of Cluedo.
I love it when conclusions are jumped to in here haha ;D
I'm not remotely sentimental about Dragon Falls. There is no sentiment attached to Chessington, I live over 3 hours from the place and have only visited it 3 times.
I don't find Wild Asia at all inspiring. None of it made me go wow. I couldn't give a monkeys who designed it. The rides in there are generally tat, and it is more or less my least favourite area of the park - probably due to other than bumper cars, there is nothing in it I like. I also find the area too open, where as Chessington on the whole feels very cosy and intimate.
I'm not saying it is a bad area, just it is one I do not like. Likewise, Dragon Falls, especially in the early days was gloriously brilliant for ONE RIDE.
Unlike yourself, I have no preconceptions, attachment, or sentiment with the place at all other than appreciating the place for what it is. It grabbed me very quickly.
As for Counts Cauldron I am on about the interior design, which appears to have had beautiful chairs, facades and goodness knows what else removed - and exterior repainted in a WEIRD colour.
You know mate, your post contained just a bit too much edge for my liking. I didn't dismiss Wild Asia, just expressed an opinion of it. Much like I defended other peoples rights to maintain their OWN meanings of what CWOA meant to them art wise...
Ironic you bought that up, when I didn't actually express a view other than it is a subjective one, and cleverly done, which allowed people to experience it in their own way.
Personally? I just like the place, and recognise something a bit special when I see it.
Oh and my "blanket" view is based upon what I am experiencing as a result of Merlin, and whilst others walk around with the blinkers on as to what they are up to business wise - I just observe and call it as I see it, much like 3 or 4 years ago I had NOTHING but praise for them.
Please don't put me into a bracket of someone incapable of thinking outside the masses. I've been around the corporate and service world long enough to spot problems like this a mile away. Not exactly hard.
E
electricBlll
Ah, the internet! :twirly:
I brought up Wild Asia in response to your comment:
However, if you barely visit Chessington and you don't feel any attachment to it, then what are you basing all your strong opinions on? It certainly sounded like you were attached.
It seems to me that, now that its charm is being taken away, interest in Chessington amongst enthusiasts has sharply increased in recent years; in other words it has become fashionable to love Chessington and to moan about its demise. That seems like jumping a bandwagon, especially for people who have actually experienced most of the "stunning" features whose loss is now being lamented. For example, Count's Cauldron was nothing special by the time Burger King got hold of it and needed a change. If you ask me, Chessington lost its magic a decade ago but few people vocalised their complaints at the time...
It's still a fun place to visit though.
I brought up Wild Asia in response to your comment:
But it turns out you "don't give a monkeys" about the answer to your challenge or whether Merlin created it or not. Fair enough, not everybody appreciates the same thing.
However, if you barely visit Chessington and you don't feel any attachment to it, then what are you basing all your strong opinions on? It certainly sounded like you were attached.
It seems to me that, now that its charm is being taken away, interest in Chessington amongst enthusiasts has sharply increased in recent years; in other words it has become fashionable to love Chessington and to moan about its demise. That seems like jumping a bandwagon, especially for people who have actually experienced most of the "stunning" features whose loss is now being lamented. For example, Count's Cauldron was nothing special by the time Burger King got hold of it and needed a change. If you ask me, Chessington lost its magic a decade ago but few people vocalised their complaints at the time...
It's still a fun place to visit though.
A
Anonymous
I think now is about the right time for me to step in and give my view on the whole Wild Asia / Mystic East / Park Theming attempts. Bare in mind that my opinion is of course very biased, considering that I have grown up at Chessington and it has sculpted me into a theme park lover, yes, THEME PARK. I’m a fan of theme and therefore, when I saw Dragon Falls just last week I was shocked beyond belief to the point of coming close to weeping a little.
Wild Asia to me, represented a glimmer of hope that the park was going to change, and finally a turn in the right direction. The level of theming was, to me, brilliant, but when I thought more about it, I realised that there wasn’t actually that much done. Much of the area is just a recovering of the old façade and doesn’t actually change too much of the area. The biggest change was of course, the moving of the Dodgems, Bash Street Bus and then all the install work / theming on Kobra. The ideas in the area, were brilliant, but to me it didn’t do what it was supposed to.
The area lacked that same level of atmosphere that the rest of the park had, it was too open and lacked the weaving paths, shrubbery and general built up layers that the world of adventures theme represented. For me, the World of Adventures is something more. It represents a selection of ideals and to me they all need to be met. There needs to be immersive theming, a thought to the layout of the area, the music needs to be creative and yet realistic and the area needs to represent the land which it is trying to mimic. To me, Wild Asia just didn’t do that.
That is an east Indian street. Wild Asia doesn't come close.
The buildings are all dark, the streets weren’t quite tight enough and the general feel of ‘Asia’ just wasn’t there to me, whereas for Mystic East, you know what it was supposed to represent. It was Japan / Chinese architecture and it was stunning. The rocks looked like the mountains in Japan, the Buddha was big and bold, the tunnel under Dragon River, the layout and flow of the paths, although illogical allowed you to see the ride. Then you had the amazing station, the giant heads from Angkor and just one of the most impressive and immersive themed rides and areas.
Wild Asia, as promising as it looked, just didn’t deliver in the same way that Mystic East did, the ideas were there, but the planning, execution and budget limitations ruined that. It could have been so much more, in a similar way, Zufari could have been, as could Africa.
The Forbidden Kingdom, Mexicana and to a lesser extent Transylvania all represented these ideals, they all worked well in ways that didn’t have to make sense, but gave you that level of escape. It was as though you were somewhere else. Not a theme park just outside London, but an actual different place. Dragon River, The Runaway Train, Vampire, Bubbleworks and all those amazing and iconic Chessington attractions were made with love, attention to detail and a large budget. It wasn’t built by people who had no imagination, for example, the below videos show the attractions theming being made by external companies. The rides were amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu69__KysoE#ws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obUW4ZNawl0#ws
Hopefully, you can understand our wishes to see the rides return to their former glory, as well as my beliefs that although Chessington’s new management may have ‘ideas’ and ‘plans’, they will be nowhere near as well executed as previously.
Wild Asia to me, represented a glimmer of hope that the park was going to change, and finally a turn in the right direction. The level of theming was, to me, brilliant, but when I thought more about it, I realised that there wasn’t actually that much done. Much of the area is just a recovering of the old façade and doesn’t actually change too much of the area. The biggest change was of course, the moving of the Dodgems, Bash Street Bus and then all the install work / theming on Kobra. The ideas in the area, were brilliant, but to me it didn’t do what it was supposed to.
The area lacked that same level of atmosphere that the rest of the park had, it was too open and lacked the weaving paths, shrubbery and general built up layers that the world of adventures theme represented. For me, the World of Adventures is something more. It represents a selection of ideals and to me they all need to be met. There needs to be immersive theming, a thought to the layout of the area, the music needs to be creative and yet realistic and the area needs to represent the land which it is trying to mimic. To me, Wild Asia just didn’t do that.
The buildings are all dark, the streets weren’t quite tight enough and the general feel of ‘Asia’ just wasn’t there to me, whereas for Mystic East, you know what it was supposed to represent. It was Japan / Chinese architecture and it was stunning. The rocks looked like the mountains in Japan, the Buddha was big and bold, the tunnel under Dragon River, the layout and flow of the paths, although illogical allowed you to see the ride. Then you had the amazing station, the giant heads from Angkor and just one of the most impressive and immersive themed rides and areas.
Wild Asia, as promising as it looked, just didn’t deliver in the same way that Mystic East did, the ideas were there, but the planning, execution and budget limitations ruined that. It could have been so much more, in a similar way, Zufari could have been, as could Africa.
The Forbidden Kingdom, Mexicana and to a lesser extent Transylvania all represented these ideals, they all worked well in ways that didn’t have to make sense, but gave you that level of escape. It was as though you were somewhere else. Not a theme park just outside London, but an actual different place. Dragon River, The Runaway Train, Vampire, Bubbleworks and all those amazing and iconic Chessington attractions were made with love, attention to detail and a large budget. It wasn’t built by people who had no imagination, for example, the below videos show the attractions theming being made by external companies. The rides were amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu69__KysoE#ws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obUW4ZNawl0#ws
Hopefully, you can understand our wishes to see the rides return to their former glory, as well as my beliefs that although Chessington’s new management may have ‘ideas’ and ‘plans’, they will be nowhere near as well executed as previously.
TheMan
TS Member
electricBlll said:
I can only base my opinions on my experiences and looking at it from a completely neutral enthusiast perspective. I couldn't vocalise complaints back then, as I had never visited the place, and was too busy to be on any forums. I visited Chessie for the first time with family, not as a result of any conversations or affiliation with any forums or enthusiast community, or indeed not even as a Merlin detractor. Quite the opposite at that time.
Wild Asia lacks soul, lacks atmosphere, lacks intimacy, and lacks immersion. Most other areas of Chessington have a very close feel to them Wild Asia doesn't have that. To be honest, I feel Jared articulated that reason excellently above.
I have seen absolutely nothing, that replicates the early brilliance that I have seen in photos, and in person, of Chessington.
It is clear for me, to any enthusiast, that they had it more or less bang on - and it is losing it even in the short time I have been visiting! In terms of the way they run it, and thinking they can improve a theme that didn't need improving. You build UPON brilliance, you do not strip it down. You take the best parks, and bring the rest up to that standard.
That is really obvious for anything, music, to manufacturing. Don't break what works. Somethings are just right.
Chessington was fantastic, Merlin should get hold of that art, and refurbish the place and use that as a template for future creations and they will have a park that borders on world class - and doesn't rely on cramming coasters in or having already beautiful surroundings... it is completely self created, which is very, very difficult to do.
Return the place to it's majesty, and don't "Merlinise" it!
Somethings you move on from, others you don't. A Volvo should always be "boxy and good". A big heavy reliable tank, that adds some style as things develop - not strip the whole lot away and try and start again!
Some. Things. Just. Work.