• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Cuts 2015: How the consistency of the product is being eroded.

I ready said the opening times of rides wasn't a small issue.

I don't remember theming in the Rapids station anyway?

The head choppers on mine train need to come back, I assume the wood was rotten? Hopefully next closed season they will rebuild (but not too hopeful).

Dark Forest scaffolding is terrible, but wouldn't ruin my day.

Sub-Terra wait time yesterday doesn't justfiy needing actors, save them for peak days maybe? But if they aren't doing that in Easter hols then yes they are eroding the value of that attraction.

Overall though the only thing that would cause my day to feel bad would be long queues that mean I cant ride all major coasters and the opening times affecting that too. Everything else might not look great but I could still enjoy a day even if the Rapids statin doesn't have theming. Food prices would also make the day feel worse, particularly pizza pasta over £10.
 
jon81uk said:
I ready said the opening times of rides wasn't a small issue.

I don't remember theming in the Rapids station anyway?

The head choppers on mine train need to come back, I assume the wood was rotten? Hopefully next closed season they will rebuild (but not too hopeful).

Dark Forest scaffolding is terrible, but wouldn't ruin my day.

Sub-Terra wait time yesterday doesn't justfiy needing actors, save them for peak days maybe? But if they aren't doing that in Easter hols then yes they are eroding the value of that attraction.
£10.
Click to expand...

The old roof had african themed graphics on the beams and some ropes hanging down, it wasn't anything amazing. The new roof has horrid metal beams, thats it.

Sub-Terra has lost it's actors full stop, however if someone coming on a quiet day is paying the same as someone on a busy day i wouldn't say losing in actor was fair in that situation. However everyone is getting screwed equally here.

Yesterday the queues where all about 30 minutes longer than they would have been last year, i would say that impacts on the day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom
It's rare that I make a post on the forum these days. However after yesterdays visit I feel like I should chip in my 5 cents.

On a positive note I think CBeebies land refurbishment and octonaughts addition is great for the younger guests and families that wish to visit the park. Despite some operational tweeks needed to optimise Octonaughts throughput (which is to be expected on its first day), kids and parents seem to love it alike.

The addition of more entertainment on park is great, the acrobatics, maintenance team show, pirate show, characters around the park make the place feel like it has a glimmer of soul in an otherwise baron wasteland.

Finally the corner coffee refurbishment is awesome, I love the new themed seating and a place to buy bacon rolls in the morning is always a positive in my books. The only criticism I have is that they need to bring back caramel slices and paninis!

Unfortunately the visit was not all good. It now clearly shows that Alton Towers are really cutting back on costs, firstly staffing. Removing the SRQ on Nemesis and Rita I can understand to a certain extent. Because of the 2 seater arrangement on Rita it made for a very long SRQ and pointless and Nemesis' SRQ slows down throughput due to its placement on the offload platform. For some reason or another it appears that Alton Towers now seem to want to staff the park for lower guest figures despite it being a normal/busy day. Why change a formula that has worked for the past 2/3 decades?! If money is that tight then sort out your bag drops.. Myself and DanB worked out that if you reduced the staff in the bag drops on Th13teen, Sub-Terra and Smiler to 1 member of staff and have self-service biometric or automated ride platform bag cages (like Universal, Europa Park) the workings out would be as follows:

£6.50 x 2 (for the 2 staff that would be saved) = £13 per hour
£13 x 9 (hours per day) = £117 per day
£117 x 7 (days open per week) = £819 per week
£819 x 4 (weeks in a month) = £3,276 per month
£3,276 x 9 (months in a season) = £29,484

That is a considerable cost and i'm pretty sure you can pick up a set of automated lockers with 1 member of staff manning it for less than £30k meaning after a year or two it has paid for itself.

Secondly operations: Oblivion was running with 2/3 shuttles and on a one-station operation. Now this could be due to technical reasons I don't know. I also understand that a lot of the staff are inexperienced and new to the job on opening day so throughputs won't be the best. However just the sheer poor performance of the rides including Th13teen which had closed its queue line at 4 but was still allowing guests in the queue to ride seems a little fishy to me. It's also annoying me that they still haven't configured the turn styles to accept an annual pass. That you have to go to some person by the gate to scan your pass meaning increased bottle necks of people wanting to get in the park. Come on Alton, this is no way to treat your regular annual-pass paying visitors sort it out.

Car Parks: The park has invested thousands of pounds in new car parking barriers, yet the coach park road is an absolute disgrace, especially as they charge £16 for premium parking and your suspension gets shot to shit with the amount of potholes and poor surfacing. Not only that the thousands of pounds worth of 'new' barriers are also the same as the entrance barriers as it didn't accept my annual pass. Whether this was just me or not I don't know but what was the point of buying these new barriers if they aren't going to configure them correctly?

Staggered Openings: Now that half of the park doesn't open until 11pm onwards it creates such a cluster of people in X-Sector and removes that natural dispersal of people allowing people to make the most of the day as people follow the same pattern of movement creating large bursts of queues on rides throughout the day.

Finally the general state of the park. I would not have guessed they have done anything over closed season, graffiti everywhere, litter that is 4/5 months old, signs peeling, themeing rotting away. Normally staff over closed season make an effort to paint, clean and make the park look presentable and this year it seems to have just gone down the toilet. I would go as far to say this is the worst i've seen the park since 2007. The small things like removing the head chopper effects on RMT would make Wardley weep. The Dark Forest is just a lost cause. For an area of the park that only got refurbished 5 years ago it is looking such a state with scaffolding everywhere, rotten queue lines and previous seating areas which were removed due to change of operation and safety are looking dire. I would go as far to say that it's the worst area of the park now and to stick a massive advertising banner that's bright yellow on top of the scaffolding in a poor attempt to polish a turd is absurd.

I don't want to come across as a moaner, I feel strongly about going to guest services when Alton Towers get things right. However I am really upset after yesterdays visit and it makes me wonder what next? Dave made a point that there is a clear lack of someone who sees a project through from Planning, Design, Construction to Operations (like Wardley) and so the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle are forced together rather than fitting in a nice way.

I have lost faith in any tactical or strategic plans the operations team and Alton Towers management have and i'd be interested in seeing Nick Varney do a spontaneous tour of the park unannounced to see the sorry state it is in. It's about time that Towers stop listening to this 'research' from their guests which is clearly biased and twisted to fit their plans and start talking to people, staff and their regular visitors to get honest feedback on what would work and what is letting the park down.
 
Last edited:
I think of this as the same as Tussauds. To start with, Tussauds did some wonderful things, but towards the end of their ownership of the park, it dwindled, crashed and burned. The addition of Rita is still something I highly disagree with. It was plonked in an area without being thought through and worked into the surrounding theme. Maybe it was the only place it could have gone, but that doesn't mean it was a well thought out investment.

I remember visiting in 2005 and walking through the towers complex and feeling sick at the state of it. Completely dilapidated and ignored. Other areas of the park were run down, tatty, disgusting. Theme music was being ripped away, completely removing most of the atmosphere around the park (Casio keyboard, old towers street music going, nemesis theme disappearing).

Then comes Merlin, with a promise of being wonderful and being as successful as the company was at the time, we all believed them. Now, I'm not saying they haven't done anything good. Early into their ownership there was some wonderful additions, along with the atmosphere creeping back in.

I think, sadly, some bad decisions in the past have bitten them back, causing them to make more bad decisions in hope that it changes things. Cuts, more cuts, removals of things, increased prices. It's turned from improving the park and being passionate about making it wonderful, to being able to actually afford to keep the place running and financially stable to a degree that doesn't upset people.

Sadly, these are issues that a successful company has to face. It's how each company deals with these things, and Merlin frequently remind us how much more important our money is to them, rather than our general experience.

I come to theme parks for the atmosphere and experience. I don't like to be reminded every five seconds how much money they want me to spend during my day, and it gets even more disgusting when you look at the cuts, setbacks and general state of the park is in.
 
I would also add if your clever and have an existing MAP you can do more positive by visiting A LOT. Take your own food and fill out KPI screens reflecting your impression of the day.
 
^ this is my strategy. I'm doing my bit to drag down spend per head as much as possible. I also left feedback via the touchscreens as I didn't have time to queue to complain in person
 
All the reports out of AT makes me never want to set foot in it again. Its about 4 hours from us.
There seems no point in going on off peak days as they are trying their best to make the rides really slow and build up queues. I don't want to wait 40 mins for a ride which is why I avoid peak times.

M£rlin are killing that park and I just hope Paramount park does open and kills off M£rlin. They do not deserve to survive as a company.

I might as well save up and just nip over to EP for a few days. At least I know I am getting some great value for money.
 
I spoke to guest services in the park, the hotel, left feedback on electronic screens and just written a trip advisor review.

Hey look, if Alton want to offers guests a lesser experience on quieter days such as no actors on sub terra to enhance the ride experience then fine, offer it at a much lower price then.

If I had paid full price yesterday to visit I would have been so annoyed.

The park looks like it hasn't had any love or care shown to it over closed season.

I took someone who hasn't been for many many years and felt ashamed!
 
A lot of young people work in the demolition business, so it’s good to hear that merlin’s keeping them in work.

But it’s disappointing about Katanga Canyon. I know it might seem picky to have strong feelings about a basic head chopper effect and some painted designs on a roof, but these are important to creating the right kind of atmosphere. When Tussauds took over Katanga Canyon was one of the first themed areas, and if you asked me to name a ‘family’ area at Alton Towers (rather than a thrill area, or a kids area), Katanga Canyon is still the one I’d think of first.

There’s part of me that wonders how much longer Katanga Canyon has left. Is there another area of the park (aside from the house and gardens) that has remained unaltered for such a period of time? And in an interview, did John Wardley say that one of the alternatives to The Smiler was a stand up coaster in Katanga Canyon? It’s possible that they have plans for Katanga Canyon, and just want to patch it up for a few years before something major happens. Maybe we’ll get that karaoke coaster.

On the other hand, does it look any worse than The Dark Forest? Is this the new standard? The rumours suggest Forbidden Valley will be the next part of Alton Towers to have something done. Katanga Canyon could look like that for many years to come.

I know enthusiasts can be quite negative. Not just theme park enthusiasts, but enthusiasts of anything. But either I’ve grown old and cynical, or we’ve reached a new low. A few years ago it was, ‘I hope they build a cross valley woodie’, ‘I hope they do something with Coaster Corner’. Now it’s, ‘I hope they don’t demolish too much next year’
 
Nothing says Dark Forest quite like a bright, obtrusive yellow up selling banner.

The area is an absolute disgrace. I'd say that's the reason Towers are keeping it closed until 11, but it's fairly obvious it's down to the budgets.

The passion I have for Towers has almost been extinguished courtesy of these cuts. I feel deeply sorry and sympathetic for anyone who paid full price or even the online price to see the disgrace of a theme park being ran this weekend.

Ashamed. Irritated. Saddened. Done.
 
Funcone said:
But it’s disappointing about Katanga Canyon. I know it might seem picky to have strong feelings about a basic head chopper effect and some painted designs on a roof, but these are important to creating the right kind of atmosphere. When Tussauds took over Katanga Canyon was one of the first themed areas, and if you asked me to name a ‘family’ area at Alton Towers (rather than a thrill area, or a kids area), Katanga Canyon is still the one I’d think of first.
Click to expand...

Little bit of a pedantic point. Tussaud's built Katanga Canyon, only the Rapids were pre-Tussauds. RMT was the first real investment after Tussauds bought AT, it opened in 1992 after Tussaud's bought the park in 1990. In fact I would say it was the Tussauds takeover that turned AT into a theme park as Katanga and then Forbiddon Valley were created. Of course a lot of this can be credited to a Mr Wardley.

This has got me thinking (and this has been said before) that is was the 2000-2007 Tussauds that started the decline of the park really. Warwick Castle also started getting s lot more commercial during this period, rather than just being a castle with some Tussaud waxworks.
 
Basically Early Tussauds was a time when the park constantly improved (that doesn't mean it was better back then, a lot of the park was still unthemed). Then DIC Tussauds really brought the park down. Merlin took over and for about 4 years seemed to be on the up (Mutiny Bay, Sharkbait Reef, Skyride refurb, Monorail Refurb), then they started going the same way as DIC Tussauds.
 
I can't believe Katanga Canyon is being destroyed further. It was once the best themed area of the entire park.

I've not been impressed with anything Merlin have done since the takeover. To pick up on what you pointed out Dave:

1. Mutiny Bay - crap, cheap. BG is a mildly pleasant attraction to look at, but ANOTHER wet ride was the wrong choice.
2. Sharkbait Reef - standard copy and paste job.
3. Skyride - insurance job
4. Monorail - crap. Horrible seats. Can't see out of the damn windows.

Going further:

6. Hotels/AT Hotel - crap refurbs. All hotel perks removed. Crap entertainment compared to previous years (Dickie & Tanya for example).
7. Hotels/Splash Landings - total b@stardisation of the theming and colour scheme. Crap food. Crap layout changes to the restaurant. Coffee shops, snack bars, and stalls shoe horned into every available space.
8. Water park - reduced operating hours especially outdoors. Charging for hotel guests. Charging for towels. I don't even need to mention the state of the place.
9. Extraordinary Golf - Nothing exciting, half arsed, wasn't even finished properly.
10. Th13teen - meh. People are warming to it but most still can't get over the way it was wrongly marketed.
11. Sub Standard - meh.
12. The Smiler - meh.
13. Ice Age - mildly entertaining, but not exactly ground breaking as far as 4D cinemas go.
14. Events / Scarefest - they cancelled the legendary firework shows for this! It looked promising in it's first couple of years but has taken rapid decline since 2008.
15. Events / Return of the Fireworks - total garbage up until the previous 2 years, but that is down to 1 man's determination to make it entertaining again. If it wasn't for him, what would it be like? Oh yeah, the marketing departments iPod playlist. I appreciate last years effort but it's still nothing more than an advert for the park.
16. Enchanted Village - boring, uninspiring.
17. The Go Ape Thing - boring, uninspiring. Not even themed.
18. CBeebies Land - doesn't even come close to the magic of Old McDonald's Farm. Where is the theming? Where are the animatronic characters? Where are the animal experiences (i.e. stuff kids actually love)? That outdoor entertainment area is one of the worst thing's I've ever seen. Thomas Land at Drayton beats CBeebies without a shadow of doubt.

That's without mentioning the hundreds of other additions/subtractions, and the general scruffy state of the park, the price increases, extra charges, and upsells everywhere.

I put Merlin below DIC. Well below them. These are Towers' darkest years for sure.

Charterhouse I can get away with, they seemed to maintain the status quo after buying from Pearson. 2003 was the year I started noticing big changes and cuts. Good things that happened around that time (like Splash Landings) were remnants of previous years work.

Pearson set an example in my opinion. They took the park on in what, 1990? Grew it massively, the park became held in high esteem by everyone. Magic, freebies & perks everywhere, built some of the world's best rides, some of the world's best entertainment and shows, you name it, it was happening then and there. And after all of that they went on to sell the park in 1998 for an enormous profit. THAT is how you do things if you want to make money.
 
They're too black and white as a company. They need the return on every pound invested clearly explained and proven.

Imagine the huge theming objects you get as Disney parks trying to be signed off in a Merlin boardroom.

All they're interested in is making Merlin as big as possible via generic expansion strategies, and then Varney and co will sell off the park.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top