Did Th13teen disappoint you?

[Secret Weapon]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I remember thinking that Thirteen was actually worse than the ride that it replaced (Corkscrew), which I wouldn't say about The Smiler (Black Hole) or Air/Galactica (The New Beast?) - but I only ever rode Corkscrew once or twice, so perhaps I am not remembering it correctly!

(I am slightly biased, though, because I generally prefer major rollercoasters to feature at least 1 inversion)

Dare I say this. It had the best add campaign of the lot.

I heard some people say that the ad campaign was almost too good, because it raised expectations (e.g. talk of age restrictions, having to sign waivers, and banned pre-watershed TV adverts, etc) and thus made people disappointed with the end result?

I think that attendance at AT may have begun to drop shortly afterwards, but I'm not sure.

 

[pluk]

I heard some people say that the ad campaign was almost too good, because it raised expectations

It wasn't too good, it wasn't for (ie didn't represent) the ride they were actually building.

That might get people through the turnstiles once, but overall it's bad marketing if it falls so wildly short on delivery.

 

[Secret Weapon]

It wasn't too good, it wasn't for (ie didn't represent) the ride they were actually building.

That might get people through the turnstiles once, but overall it's bad marketing if it falls so wildly short on delivery.

I remember reading an observation in "Making Thorpe Park" that there was sometimes a disconnect between the advertising agencies and Merlin around this time, as the marketing for "Saw Alive" (around 2010, I think) didn't quite match the image that the park had tried to cultivate.

I think rides that such as Nemesis may have been a bit different, as they were perhaps designed, named, and themed by the same core team? I may be wrong, though.

 

[Slugjc]

I heard some people say that the ad campaign was almost too good, because it raised expectations (e.g. talk of age restrictions, having to sign waivers, and banned pre-watershed TV adverts, etc) and thus made people disappointed with the end result?

I think that attendance at AT may have begun to drop shortly afterwards, but I'm not sure.

You have to remember. That advert had 2 purposes. 1, make people aware of new ride, 2 get the folk through the doors and the tills rolling.

It maybe was a bit too clever for its own good.

I could have another factor. The wardley factor. Why would we assume that sir John would create a rollercoaster so tame?

Looking back. The same thing happened with Air. That was sold to us as a way of being able to fly. The ride sets of, then we see folk flying without a coaster track or harness in site. Plus a weird exaggerated launch sequence. When I asked an ex on how it was, as she went before me, she said "it's tame, best bit is when it tilts." Which is why I always bolt the two together. Brilliant ideas, limited by Alton Towers various issues budget and building regs wise.

 

[Secret Weapon]

The wardley factor. Why would we assume that sir John would create a rollercoaster so tame?

I think John Wardley said (either in a YouTube interview and/or his book) that he wanted Thirteen to have a lower height requirement* so that younger children could ride it as well, and so perhaps this is why it wasn't as intense as other SW rides?

Personally, I would not have declared it as a Secret Weapon ride to begin with, because this probably also raised expectations, and somewhat diminished the prestige of the SW name; if AT wanted Thirteen to be a family rollercoaster, then it may have been better to have not given it an SW number at all (similar to Rita and Spinball Whizzer).

*On a sidenote: I remember that Nemesis had a height requirement of 1.2 metres when it first opened in 1994, but it now has a height requirement of 1.4 metres; I'm not sure why, but maybe the regulations have changed?

 

[jon81uk]

I could have another factor. The wardley factor. Why would we assume that sir John would create a rollercoaster so tame?

Why wouldn't he make a tame rollercoaster? He is a theatrical set designer really. He set out to make experiences, not thrills.

 

[Slugjc]

I think John Wardley said (either in a YouTube interview and/or his book) that he wanted Thirteen to have a lower height requirement* so that younger children could ride it as well, and so perhaps this is why it wasn't as intense as other SW rides?

Personally, I would not have declared it as a Secret Weapon ride to begin with, because this probably also raised expectations, and somewhat diminished the prestige of the SW name; if AT wanted Thirteen to be a family rollercoaster, then it may have been better to have not given it an SW number at all (similar to Rita and Spinball Whizzer).

*On a sidenote: I remember that Nemesis had a height requirement of 1.2 metres when it first opened in 1994, but it now has a height requirement of 1.4 metres; I'm not sure why, but maybe the regulations have changed?

Until the smiler I always had the thought the Secret weapon name was code for world first. Which thirteen does have.

Why wouldn't he make a tame rollercoaster? He is a theatrical set designer really. He set out to make experiences, not thrills.

I maybe could have written this better.

2010 was a different world. I can remember this ride being showcased on GMTV. In it's usual format of outside presenter screaming uncontrollably around ride and explaining how thrilling it is. To me, I could be wrong on this. If you saw a new coaster at AT on Tele, it meant one thing. Tear ya face off excitement. The thirteen ad in its defence, doesn't showcase this, it just talks of a supernatural element taking control.

I see your point as to why wouldn't he and yes, why wouldn't he. But to the non enfusiast world. Why would he? And why would Towers showcase something that isn't.

 

[jon81uk]

I maybe could have written this better.

2010 was a different world. I can remember this ride being showcased on GMTV. In it's usual format of outside presenter screaming uncontrollably around ride and explaining how thrilling it is. To me, I could be wrong on this. If you saw a new coaster at AT on Tele, it meant one thing. Tear ya face off excitement. The thirteen ad in its defence, doesn't showcase this, it just talks of a supernatural element taking control.

I see your point as to why wouldn't he and yes, why wouldn't he. But to the non enfusiast world. Why would he? And why would Towers showcase something that isn't.

It was the marketing that was at fault not John Wardley. Thirteen is a decent enough attraction (although the outdoor section needs to be twice as long) with a slightly scary drop. But marketing at the time said it was the most thrilling thing ever and similar. But generally, why wouldn't they showcase any new ride opening, it doesn't need to be thrilling to appear on TV?

 

[Secret Weapon]

Until the smiler I always had the thought the Secret weapon name was code for world first. Which thirteen does have.

I remember seeing on a YouTube video that SW3 (Nemesis) was supposedly marketed as Europe's first inverted rollercoaster, rather than a world first - although I'm not sure if this is true, as I don't remember seeing this ever featured in any TV adverts etc at the time? I definitely remember hearing Shockwave at Drayton Manor being described as Europe's only stand-up rollercoaster, though.

I think that SW5 was marketed as the world's first flying rollercoaster, although this is debatable, given that Vekoma had already launched the Flying Dutchman rides by then (I didn't know about them at the time, though), and B&M also opened Superman: Ultimate Flight around the same time (although technically afterwards).

Alton Towers weren't always entirely honest with their 'first of a kind' marketing, as they also told multiple journalists that they were the first to ride Nemesis in 1994!

Incidentally, I'm not sure if SW1 or SW2 were ever planned to feature a world's first element?

 

[jon81uk]

I remember seeing on a YouTube video that SW3 (Nemesis) was supposedly marketed as Europe's first inverted rollercoaster, rather than a world first - although I'm not sure if this is true, as I don't remember seeing this ever featured in any TV adverts etc at the time?

Nemesis was not a worlds first, Batman at Six Flags opened a year earlier.

 

[Benzin]

Most I remember from the marketing was the post watershed Evil Dead from Wish version of the TV advert.

Sure it's a big moment in many an enthusiast's awakening though.

 

[Secret Weapon]

Nemesis was not a worlds first, Batman at Six Flags opened a year earlier.

I think that Nemesis was the world's third inverted rollercoaster, as there was a Batman ride at Six Flags Chicago in 1992 (which directly inspired Nemesis), and then a clone at Six Flags New Jersey in 1993.

I think Nemesis would have been the fourth (rather than the third) if it had opened a few weeks later, as yet another clone opened in California during March 1994!

I think Nemesis was the first in Europe, although I don't remember Alton Towers ever marketing it as such (unlike Shockwave)? I'd always just assumed that Alton Towers left it deliberately vague as to whether any other such rides existed (this was during the pre-internet era), but maybe I am wrong.

 

[Slugjc]

It was the marketing that was at fault not John Wardley. Thirteen is a decent enough attraction (although the outdoor section needs to be twice as long) with a slightly scary drop. But marketing at the time said it was the most thrilling thing ever and similar. But generally, why wouldn't they showcase any new ride opening, it doesn't need to be thrilling to appear on TV?

Did marketing say that? Certainly didn't on the TV adverts of the time. Ok they did they did the usual weird angle to make it look faster. But it the only words spoken are "if you go down............." Most poster form I can see just says "don't go alone."

Away from Hex, I've never seen a TV spot for anything but coasters at AT.

Im not sure if it's my poor command of the English that is to blame. Certainly in my youth with Nemesis, Oblivion and air. Alot of people I know associated towers with thrill seeking. That's my point. The association and brand hammered into us late 90s early millennium via towers adverts and wardley interviews was this kind advertising. Ok John isn't to blame. But he can hype up his own work better than anyone.

Wasn't nemesis advertised as Europe's first?

 

[Matt N]

Did marketing say that? Certainly didn't on the TV adverts of the time. Ok they did they did the usual weird angle to make it look faster. But it the only words spoken are "if you go down............." Most poster form I can see just says "don't go alone."

I ascertain that Morwenna Angove, the then marketing director of Alton Towers, was a fan of attention-grabbing marketing stunts, and many of these revolved around Thirteen.

They ran promotions saying things such as that riders had to be between 16 and 55 and sign a waiver to ride and that they were going to put a nurse at the ride’s exit to cure people from the trauma they’d just experienced. They also called it “the ultimate rollercoaster” and “every rollercoaster you’ve ever dreamed of rolled into one” in some PR pieces.

 

[Secret Weapon]

Wasn't nemesis advertised as Europe's first?

I can't remember for certain; the problem with advertising as "Britain's first" or "Europe's first" is that it immediately tells the public that there is another one out there in another country, or else it'd be advertised as "the world's first".

(Until / unless humans begin colonising Mars, of course - at which point, Earth has no hope of competing, as Martian rides would no doubt be much taller due to the weaker gravity )

 

[Slugjc]

Back then it was more or less thought that the Americans would have had it first. Or Japan, they were thousands of miles away and a few hundred quick to get to. If memory serves me right, John rode batman and knew he needed at the towers. So the idea of the first this side of the pond would have been seen as massive draw. Especially since, this being 1994. Away from the odd article in papers and magazines or one of those travel programmes. I doubt anyone would have known.

 

[jon81uk]

Away from Hex, I've never seen a TV spot for anything but coasters at AT.

As in appearances on breakfast TV and similar? Yes I think most of those were for coasters plus maybe CBeebies and Curse. But for actual advertising Submission, Ug Land, Mutiny Bay, Curse and many others.

 

[Slugjc]

As in appearances on breakfast TV and similar? Yes I think most of those were for coasters plus maybe CBeebies and Curse. But for actual advertising Submission, Ug Land, Mutiny Bay, Curse and many others.

We've all seen the adverts. I was on about live tv

 

[Secret Weapon]

I vaguely remember hearing about The Energizer on a TV show in 1995; it may have been The Big Breakfast, but I might be wrong.

I definitely remember seeing the "Great White" hoax on Live & Kicking, though!

 

[Slugjc]

Could it be argued that they had no choice but to have it advertised in that way?

They must have known, from early on that it was limited and not as in ya face as the previous SW's. It's has 1 selling point which the track drop, so, you have to focus on that but in a way that doesn't give any spoilers. It did it's just job incredibly well. What is advertising? It's a way of selling you a feeling. It's job was to hype you up, for that first ride. To want to pull you to Alton Towers and it did it. If your disappointed in the end product. That's not Merlin, Morwenna or Wardleys fault. That's on you personally.