Disneyland Paris: General Discussion

[jon81uk]

and as much as theme park lands are meant to immerse you in foreign lands (Animal Kingdom), or the past (Magic Kingdom), or fantasy (Magic Kingdom) or a far-off planet (Star Wars at DHS and Disneyland), or a Wizarding World (IoA and USF), or an island with Dinosaurs (IoA or USH).
Avengers is set in New York and present day places, therefore Avengers Campus is going to look like present day city architecture!

 

[The Big Mack]

Honestly, and I say this as someone who works in the film industry, a film studio themed area full of grey industrial buildings/soundstages/warehouses with next to no detailing whatsoever is far from 'magical'. It felt like it was replicating an industrial site like parts of Luton. I remember the first time I went to WDSP and it felt more garish than the industrial warehouses at Thorpe Park.

Avengers Campus looks fresh, detailed and has that shiny sci-fi feel that makes Marvel Studios films like Iron Man and The Avengers so great. The area looks like it's packed full of fine detailing that make the Disney parks some of the best out there. I'm in love with the designs of the restaurants, especially Pym Kitchen. Finally a truly immersive themed land that can really begin to sort out WDSP's issues, it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Matt N]

I was thinking about why people are less happy with Avengers Campus than they are with other IP-themed lands at Disney and Universal parks, and I did think of one possible problem with the Marvel IP that doesn’t plague other IPs that have had lands given to them. I once heard someone say this.

The Marvel IPs centre primarily around the superpowers of the protagonists, so the locations used in Marvel films (which Avengers Campus tries to replicate) are arguably quite dull, everyday locations unless the protagonists are present.

With something like Harry Potter, on the other hand (just as an example); key locations like Hogwarts and Diagon Alley are quite intriguing and mystical even if the protagonists aren’t present, so the WWOHP lands are still quite magical and offer lots of in-theme opportunities for shopping, F&B etc even though the protagonists themselves are not actually there.

I’m not sure how much sense I’m making, but could this be why Avengers Campus is leaving people so non-plussed?

 

[Squiggs]

Avengers is set in New York and present day places, therefore Avengers Campus is going to look like present day city architecture!

I honestly hope they're not going for an NYC theme, I've not seem anything in the avengers campus architecture that even hints at New York.

Looking at the pictures people have shared above, it seems like that part of WDS has gone from a 90s out of town business park to a slightly more high end out of town business park in 2020. Either way, very strong 'Luton' VIBES.

 

[jon81uk]

I honestly hope they're not going for an NYC theme, I've not seem anything in the avengers campus architecture that even hints at New York.

Looking at the pictures people have shared above, it seems like that part of WDS has gone from a 90s out of town business park to a slightly more high end out of town business park in 2020. Either way, very strong 'Luton' VIBES.

I don't thin Avengers campus is set in New York, I just meant that the films are set in present-day and of course the Avengers tower is in NYC. This is why Avengers Campus has a 2020 feel to it, thats when the films were set.

 

[pjanvil]

I honestly hope they're not going for an NYC theme, I've not seem anything in the avengers campus architecture that even hints at New York.

Looking at the pictures people have shared above, it seems like that part of WDS has gone from a 90s out of town business park to a slightly more high end out of town business park in 2020. Either way, very strong 'Luton' VIBES.

haha I love how Disney have gone to provide an immersive experience of Luton. All they need is an airport theme for the queue lines

 

[Thameslink Rail]

Honestly, and I say this as someone who works in the film industry, a film studio themed area full of grey industrial buildings/soundstages/warehouses with next to no detailing whatsoever is far from 'magical'. It felt like it was replicating an industrial site like parts of Luton. I remember the first time I went to WDSP and it felt more garish than the industrial warehouses at Thorpe Park.

haha I love how Disney have gone to provide an immersive experience of Luton. All they need is an airport theme for the queue lines

Never thought anyone would compare Disney to my home town!
Looking at the photos posted fair enough, Merlin often say they're second to Disney and we mock them for that, but if that's Disney's standard then they might actually be correct.

 

[The Big Mack]

I honestly hope they're not going for an NYC theme, I've not seem anything in the avengers campus architecture that even hints at New York.

Looking at the pictures people have shared above, it seems like that part of WDS has gone from a 90s out of town business park to a slightly more high end out of town business park in 2020. Either way, very strong 'Luton' VIBES.

It's a French base for the Avengers, as confirmed by the Imagineers.

 

[Funcone]

It’s kind of hard to know how big our expectations should be for Disney. It’s like trying to compare my expectations for a league one side with my expectations for Manchester United. Of course Manchester United is going to do better, but they’ve got such different budgets people are going to have different expectations. When you compare the budget for a Disney project with any of the British parks, even with the best concept in the world a British park would struggle to come up with something as ‘good’.

I haven’t seen either Avengers Campus in person, and I haven’t watched any videos of the French one. It does sound disappointing though. The spiderman animatronic never sounded ‘that’ exciting to me, but it clearly was one of the most talked about aspects of the other Avengers Campus, so it’s a shame not to have it here. And it sounds like the Pym’s Kitchen is a scaled down version with screens instead of models moving along a conveyor.

It is hard to judge a dark coaster from videos, and clearly the exterior looks better (but surpassing a low bar). The launch area does look very bland compared to the original, though. And it’s a shame that the Studios park has so few original attractions.

Dark rides are particularly hard to judge from videos or photos, and I’m not generally a fan of shooting rides. But it sounds like it is a very short ride, and the premise of being on a training assignment (if I’ve understood that right) isn’t very compelling. Mission Space had a similar ‘story’, and that clearly wasn’t a very successful attraction, and Midway Mania feels like a poorer use of the ride system compared to Maus Au Chocolat, which has a more engaging setting and feels less like a video arcade.

Going back to my original point, how should we judge this area? Compared to what was there before? Compared to other Disney resorts? Compared to what Universal has been doing lately? Compared to Universal’s Marvel attractions? Compared to other top European parks like Efteling, Phantasialand and Europa Park? Compared to Parc Asterix, which is the nearest major competitor? Clearly, it does well with the first comparison. I’m not sure about the others.

 

[Ian]

14th of July is Bastille Day in France, a major national holiday. After a few years of absence DLP’s firework celebration of the day has returned.

Quelle surprise, it features what now seems to be a staple of DLP nighttime shows…

Spoiler

Someone’s getting their money’s worth out of those drones

It also seems to feature some of the most aggressive fireworks I’ve ever seen! Somewhat befitting of Bastille Day I guess!

 

[AstroDan]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

Wheres the awesome ride in this new land?

Shocking that Disney's Spiderman ride effort is vastly inferior than what Universal did 23 years before.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[Funcone]

It’s always difficult to judge a dark ride from photos, but it doesn’t look as good as It’s a Small World which Disney did 56 years ago. I don’t think the age makes that much difference. Disney has done a lot of great dark rides over the years, but I doubt this is one of them, even allowing for the fact I don’t personally enjoy shooting rides. We haven’t had a lot of dark rides in the UK in recent times, but it doesn’t look as good as Wallace and Gromit’s Thrill O Matic for that matter. Although I’m sure it has a higher throughput and a more elaborate queue line.

 

[Rob]

It's sounding like the Star Wars themed area which was part of the WDS expansion has been cancelled, with Disney working on a new theme for this area (source). I'm not bothered if they do change the theme, but all this is going to do is mean we have to wait even longer for the project to be completed. If Disney are still working up ideas for this area, then you would imagine it is going to be 5 years at the very least until we see it open.

In the meantime, the only new rides expected are a Toy Story themed flat and the Frozen boat ride. Give us an E Ticket, please!!

 

[venny]

Sad, but not unexpected. It does make you wonder what caused the cancellation though. Remember how excited everyone was for the theme park opportunities when they bought Lucasfilm. There must be something going on to suggest it’s not as popular as perhaps first thought.

I’m just constantly amazed by how slow, timid and indecisive Disney currently are in the theme park market. I’d say it was similar to the end of Eisner’s tenure, but even that didn’t produce such a lack of new attractions. Perhaps even more surprising given their competition both in Europe and North America, they don’t appear to be doing anything to resolve the issue. If anything they’re getting worse.

 

[Matt N]

Sad, but not unexpected. It does make you wonder what caused the cancellation though. Remember how excited everyone was for the theme park opportunities when they bought Lucasfilm. There must be something going on to suggest it’s not as popular as perhaps first thought.

I’m just constantly amazed by how slow, timid and indecisive Disney currently are in the theme park market. I’d say it was similar to the end of Eisner’s tenure, but even that didn’t produce such a lack of new attractions. Perhaps even more surprising given their competition both in Europe and North America, they don’t appear to be doing anything to resolve the issue. If anything they’re getting worse.

With regard to the bolded; I don’t actually think Disney really has any competition.

That might seem like a strange thing to say given that Orlando, southern California and mainland Europe all have other theme park resorts around competing, but I do think Disney still storms ahead in terms of popularity among the general populace, and rightly or wrongly, I think most outside of enthusiast circles (and a considerable number within enthusiast circles) still view Disney as the absolute crème de la crème of theme parks.

Disney theme parks have a considerable captive audience who visit them purely because they’re Disney parks, irregardless of what they actually build. I don’t think that could be said of any other theme park in the world, even the likes of Universal.

Perhaps Disney feels that their work is done in terms of pulling people to the parks, and that their good work over the last however many decades will tide them over? (Which it probably will from a guest figures standpoint)

 

[jon81uk]

In Florida Disney definitly has competition from Universal.
Yes there are people that will always want to do the "first trip" to Disney. But a lot of regulars are now looking at trips of just Universal/Seaworld. Americans don't get as much leave as us, so whereas we might think of a two-week Florida holiday taking in all the theme parks, Americans are more likely to choose one week of just Disney or just Universal. Epic Universe will push that more as with three parks and a water park doing Universal only will be a thing.

In Europe its different I guess that only Disney offer the IP-driven park, but of course Europa, Phantasialand, Port Aventura, Parc Asterix and Alton Towers all offer major theme parks. I don't think therefore Disney have competition exactly, people go there to meet Mickey Mouse or Princesses, but there are plenty of other ways to spend a long weekend.

 

[Benzin]

Disney seem to go through ebbs and flows of the quality of their additions.

However at the current time with their focus it's a right push on IPs and "interactive experiences" at the high end of the budget it's arguable if that's the right idea. But given they are a huge company it's no surprise that their ideals match more with income than guess experience.

Most of the time any improvement to guest experience is purely with the thought process of how to get guests spending more money. And they've been the kings of that for years.

 

[venny]

I think Disney has serious competition in Orlando specifically. The competition in Europe is arguably not as strong, as I don’t believe the public view other local theme parks there as an alternative to Disney.

The competition in Orlando is definitely there and Universal continue to position themselves as a genuine alternative to Walt Disney World. In a couple of years they will have three theme parks and arguably Orlando’s best water park, along with a much-expanded resort offering - that is definitely competition.

Disney’s response has been paltry compared to what Universal are building. I genuinely believe that there is and will continue to be a shift in the dynamic in Orlando. That shift will reflect both the downward spiral of Disney’s offering and prices, along with Universal’s perpetually improving resort in terms of both quality and scope.

In Europe that competition is definitely less visible, in that it’s spread over a much larger area. However, I don’t believe that potential customers aren’t looking for alternatives given the lack of new attractions, quality of additions and most importantly the skyrocketing pricing.

 

[Matt N]

The thing is; from my standpoint, the majority of people I know who go to Orlando go for “Disney World!”, and even on my last trip to Orlando in 2019, the bulk of people in the airport were decked out in Mickey ears and full Disney apparel, looking like they were going with Disney as their sole purpose. The airlines and holiday companies also still very much emphasise Disney over the other parks in the area, which would suggest they are still far more popular by very nature.

While the likes of Star Wars Land will certainly appeal to a certain demographic, I’d wager that Disney could maintain broadly similar guest figures by not building anything at all for 5-10 years. As an example; if I’m remembering correctly, there was somewhat of a drought in major additions to the Florida resort between Expedition Everest in 2006 and New Fantasyland in 2014… yet the guest figures still grew, in spite of The Wizarding World of Harry Potter opening at Universal in that timeframe. I’m led to believe that Disneyland Paris also hasn’t been a hive of activity until fairly recently, but that resort maintains fairly steady guest figures (weren’t a lot of its financial problems caused by troubles during the early years rather than its modern day success?).

For a lot of people, I don’t think they visit Disney for its new attractions, I think they visit because it’s Disney. I don’t think any other park in the world has that kind of appeal, and that would naturally give Disney an advantage. Universal and some of Disney’s European competitors may be comparable in terms of quantity of things to do, but they lack Disney’s raw brand appeal, and in some people’s eyes, they’re nowhere near as good as Disney; I’ve even heard Universal described as “more comparable to Merlin than Disney”. The Disney parks, rightly or wrongly, have a special stigma attached to them in popular culture that will give them a fairly strong captive audience regardless of what they add or how they’re priced, which I don’t think you could say about any other theme park in the world.

And I say all that as someone who vastly prefers Universal to Disney; Islands of Adventure and Universal Studios Florida are two of my favourite worldwide theme parks, whereas no Disney park makes my top 5, so I’m hardly biased towards Disney.

 

[jon81uk]

The thing is; from my standpoint, the majority of people I know who go to Orlando go for “Disney World!”, and even on my last trip to Orlando in 2019, the bulk of people in the airport were decked out in Mickey ears and full Disney apparel, looking like they were going with Disney as their sole purpose. The airlines and holiday companies also still very much emphasise Disney over the other parks in the area, which would suggest they are still far more popular by very nature.

While the likes of Star Wars Land will certainly appeal to a certain demographic, I’d wager that Disney could maintain broadly similar guest figures by not building anything at all for 5-10 years. As an example; if I’m remembering correctly, there was somewhat of a drought in major additions to the Florida resort between Expedition Everest in 2006 and New Fantasyland in 2014… yet the guest figures still grew, in spite of The Wizarding World of Harry Potter opening at Universal in that timeframe. I’m led to believe that Disneyland Paris also hasn’t been a hive of activity until fairly recently, but that resort maintains fairly steady guest figures (weren’t a lot of its financial problems caused by troubles during the early years rather than its modern day success?).

For a lot of people, I don’t think they visit Disney for its new attractions, I think they visit because it’s Disney. I don’t think any other park in the world has that kind of appeal, and that would naturally give Disney an advantage. Universal and some of Disney’s European competitors may be comparable in terms of quantity of things to do, but they lack Disney’s raw brand appeal, and in some people’s eyes, they’re nowhere near as good as Disney; I’ve even heard Universal described as “more comparable to Merlin than Disney”. The Disney parks, rightly or wrongly, have a special stigma attached to them in popular culture that will give them a fairly strong captive audience regardless of what they add or how they’re priced, which I don’t think you could say about any other theme park in the world.

And I say all that as someone who vastly prefers Universal to Disney; Islands of Adventure and Universal Studios Florida are two of my favourite worldwide theme parks, whereas no Disney park makes my top 5, so I’m hardly biased towards Disney.

As I said, it’s the second visits that Disney will be losing. A lot of people will still want to do that first trip to Disneyworld. Brits will still likely go to Florida and do all the theme parks across all the chains in two weeks, or at least Disney and Universal. But for Americans who only generally take a week off at a time, Universal is definitely more appealing once people have got that first trip to Disney out the way. Many guests will be considering if it’s worth spending the huge sums on a second/third Disney trip or to do universal instead.