Doctor Who

Discussion in 'Box Office' started by James, 2nd Aug 2012.

  1. Lottie.

    Lottie. TowersStreet Member

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    Thought it was weak and underwhelming. I didn't really like anything in the episode other than the nice touch of Amy returning in the last part.

    Yeah. I have enjoyed some of Moffat's stuff but this is the first Christmas special that I didn't enjoy. :/
     
  2. Quetzal

    Quetzal TowersStreet Member

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    I thought on the whole it was overwhelmingly average, and returned back to the style of writing from series 6 that I thought Moffat had left behind.

    My biggest issue is the huge plot hole, why on earth does the Doctor have a grave onTrenzalore.
     
  3. CGM

    CGM TowersStreet Member

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    I can't even form a full opinion on the episode because I'm still not entirely sure what just happened. What was that? It was like watching a dream. It was just a jumble of random Moffat era Doctor Who related events happening in no particular order and making no sense at all. There clearly wasn't enough time in the episode for all the ideas that they wanted to get across but they just left them all in anyway.

    The episode was just a vehicle for tying up story arcs. I suppose in some ways this was to be expected but the thing is, loose ends that were tied up long ago were pointlessly re-opened just for this episode. I understand that the intention was to do a recall of the events that Smith's Doctor has lived through but it just added confusion to an already convoluted episode.

    I believe that in a good TV series, you should be able to watch any individual episode in isolation and it should still be entertaining and easy to follow. At the moment, even if you watch a full series, Doctor Who is impossible to keep track of. It seems that each episode only exists to add more confusion to the overall plot and that the final episode in the series is a test to see if you were paying attention.

    Everyone blames Steven Moffat and his writing for this but I think it's a wider problem than that. Part of the problem is that they're having to pander to a fan base in a way that guarantees the show will be awful.

    In the past, a television program began and ended on TV. Anything that happened in the imaginary world of the program whilst it was off-screen was left up to the viewer. However, these days with the internet being the way it is, you have these huge obsessive fan bases and they demand ridiculous story arcs, stupid amounts of detail and unnecessary relationships. Unfortunately, Doctor Who has found great success of late by pandering to this type of fan and it has come at the expense of entertaining story telling.

    The problem with fans of any kind whether that be TV programs or theme parks is that as a collective, they don't always realise what they want. Imagine if you let a bunch of Trekkies direct a Star Trek film, it would almost certainly be awful. I would suggest that Moffat and co need to stop writing the show for die hard fans and start simplifying it as it's alienating casual fans from the series, get it back to a format where each episode can stand by its self. The stupid thing is that Moffat is capable of writing brilliant stand alone episodes, just look at Sherlock.

    At the moment, Doctor Who is a very successful phenomenon but a pretty dire piece of entertainment. I hope some changes come about soon.
     
  4. Craig

    Craig TS Administrator Team Member

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    Nail on the head there CGM for me, summed up my feelings better than I could! I consider myself very much a casual viewer of Doctor Who. I wont' always watch every episode religiously, and I'll find myself dipping in and out of it, maybe catching up on a few episodes when I have a spare couple of hours.

    I think this really added to the confusion of this episode, and I wholly agree that the whole thing is overly complicated for all but the diehard viewer. I loved the sentimental moments in the episode, but overall it was just far too busy to really enjoy what should have been a fantastic episode. I think there really needs to be some effort by the writer to remember this is a prime time show which is watched (and therefore needs to be understood) by millions of all ages.
     
  5. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    I like Moffat but he just ruined the ending of one of my favourite doctors.... Meh

    Though it wasn't as cringeworthy as tenants 20 minute death
     
  6. Burbs

    Burbs TowersStreet Team Team Member

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    When Matt had the huge regeneration at the end of the episode, I expected it to be taken into a New Year's Day special, especially after he didn't change into Peter straight away. It was a big shock at the end when his face changed really rapidly!
     
  7. Bob

    Bob TowersStreet Member

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    In preparation for Matt Smith's final story, on Christmas Eve I watched his first story to see where he came from when he started to where he ended up in Time of the Doctor. In the Eleventh Hour he was a quiet soul, funny and unassuming and yet behind the quirky lines, lay something far darker then the ranty nature of Tennants Doctor.


    I feel a bit for Matt actually. Time of the Doctor does not do his talents any justice at all (aside from the last five minutes), here is a versatile excellent actor hidden behind prosthetics or taking the action away from the Doctor, focusing more on the Daleks or the Cybermen.

    When it comes to the Regeneration story, I always feel like it works better when the Doctor is at the forefront and here he is fighting against Daleks, Cybermen, Weeping Angels, Timelords, Cracks in the Walls, a Town called Christmas, Whizzing back and forth excessively in the TARDIS or between worlds, Clara's family, turkeys, Silence spaceship, religious orders and the TARDIS exploding as well as a previous companion turning up. Somewhere the Doctor gets lost and that's a shame.

    The regeneration itself such as Matt Smith's speech to Clara is absolutely perfect, he nails every line and shows that his Doctor was modest, humble and kind and accepting of his fate. I don't think Capaldi can pull off lines like not liking the colour of his kidneys in the same way that Smith can, I don't think he needs that level of Zany as his eyes already looked crazed enough as it was.

    Still, here's too August.
     
  8. Meat Pie

    Meat Pie TowersStreet Member

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    Clearly no-one ever told Moffat that less is more.

    You know what makes an entertaining narrative? It is characters with compelling personality and relationships, and with genuine and consistent emotional responses. It doesn't matter where you set your drama, if you have that, it will work. What doesn't make an entertaining narrative is treating your characters as perfunctory pawns to move your plot from one action sequence to another, only prioritising and dedicating time to plots so complex that they are barely communicable.

    I've had enough with convolution and unfollowable plots that are raced through at a ridiculously quick pace, and I've had enough with goofy, intangible characters.

    Hopefully this can be a fresh start now that the worst of the new Doctors is out of the picture and that there is a very good actor in Peter Capaldi filling the role. Though that said, I don't know whether any blame can lie with Matt Smith since it is hard to tell his impact when the character was written so dreadfully and two dimensional.
     
  9. DiogoJ42

    DiogoJ42 TowersStreet Member

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    In fairness, Amy and Rory (especially in his "WHERE. IS. MY. WIFE?" Centurian guise) were some of the best characters in the show's history.
     
  10. James

    James TS Founding Member

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    Arguably Amy and Rory have had the most character development than any other companion in New Who. I quite liked the 'journey' they went through - they've by far been the most interesting new companions for me. Rose I found irritating, Martha was written to be the nobody which made her boring, Donna of was just a fun 5 minute romp, Clara (current companion), there has been no real insight into who she is. The whole story arc surrounding her overshadowed her as just a companion, a person. Hopefully in series 8 we will see the 'real' Clara now all of this 'who is she' thing has finished.

    It's quite sad after so many years the new companions have lacked in, well, anything.
     
  11. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    As I have said a few times i really like the 11th doctor and Matt smith, he is very much in the style of the old doctors and for me beats the crap out of ecclestone and Tennant (who just pouts all the time). As for two dimensional I felt they got the perfect balance of quirky, angry and old that is needed for a doctor. I especially felt the 11th held his own against the 10th constant whisper then shout then repeat style of acting who got a bit angry for 2 episodes near the end of his run.

    But my god did Moffat ruin his ending, something I am actually really annoyed about as the 11th deserved something more.
     
  12. EuroSatch

    EuroSatch TowersStreet Member

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    Just for a change, I actually really enjoyed this episode. It provided satisfactory answers and was a good romp throughout. What I didn't like was the over stretching of the story arc from 2010 so most people, me included for a while, had no care about the answers
     
  13. Simon

    Simon TowersStreet Member

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    I'd consider myself one of those 'casual' viewers. I missed loads of Tennant, came to most of Ecclestone on Watch or whatever channel it is constantly repeated. Matt Smith's doctor is pretty much the only one I've been with for 'the journey', as it were.

    I felt confused at first by the episode, and often feel that some of the episodes are rushed or poorly-paced, but actually, the bewilderment subsided as the loose ends were tied up, and there were a flew 'ahhh!' moments where things I'd seen previously suddenly seemed to makes sense and actually fitted logically in to a narrative structure.

    I think CGM is right in some ways, particularly about diehard Whovians having undue influence, but I think you can overthink Doctor Who, and though some thing have been left unsatisfactorily, to be honest, I don't think it matters too much: a series that has lasted for 50 years couldn't have done so if it wasn't adaptable.

    That said, what is it with these 20-minutes/whole episode regenerations now? Just have some blurry dodgy a special effects and get it over with and spare us the mush!
     
  14. Islander

    Islander TowersStreet Member

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    First official image of Capaldi in his Doctor costume:

    [​IMG]
    Looks good to me...
     
  15. Stevie

    Stevie TowersStreet Member

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    Ooh very Pertwee-ey.

    I like it!

    :)
     
  16. James

    James TS Founding Member

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    I like it too. A nice mix of old and new.

    No doubt if Capaldi stays in the role for a while there will be minor changes here and there over the years!
     
  17. DiogoJ42

    DiogoJ42 TowersStreet Member

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    I assume everyone has seen this by now, but sod it.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. delta79

    delta79 TowersStreet Member

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    Yes, I like this version of it without them stupid ruffle Shirts.
     
  19. QTXAdsy

    QTXAdsy TowersStreet Member

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    Funny, as I did say that when the picture was shown that he looked like a magician :p
     
  20. James

    James TS Founding Member

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    Doctor Who will be back on TV in August!

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYN6ruU672Y

    Short and sweet! Tweaked logo there too!

    I have my bets on it airing 23rd August (bank holiday weekend).
     

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