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Drayton Manor Park
- Thread starter Matty
- Start date
I know it can be done, I’ve done it myself. The idea that any serious company would have some pay to play option on their control system is farcical, and that it would pass any kind of reasonable cyber security audit is laughable.
It wouldn’t be needed, and it certainly wouldn’t be at the whim of some third party elsewhere in the world.
It’s what contracts are for.
DistortAMG
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- POTC Disneyland Paris
I do not think it is. PLC systems I have used have had remote disabling functions by the equipment manufacturers that the PLCS control. In case a rogue update, unauthorised modification of the equipment or a whole host of other things are done by the owner without the consent of the manufacturer, that could put them at liability. Nothing out of the ordinary there and that is pretty similar system wise to what was being said. It passes a security audit with flying colours as the auditors can see the source code and can see that is it just a kill switch. Very common to have one. So no reason why Mack would not have implemented one.
It is not a pay to play system though is it. You agree to buy a ride, you do not pay, they are within their rights to disable it.
Jb85
TS Member
Accountant here. The terms commitments can refer to your creditors. I.e. You have committed to that spend and owe the money.
They can also refer to future commitments:
Commitments are agreements to perform in the future. Commitments consist of all obligations for future fiscal years. Examples of commitments would include operating lease payments on property. Problems in the area of commitments relate to recognition of expenditures in the proper period and disclosure of future payments.
Disclosure of commitments should include the nature, amounts and any unusual terms and uncertainties of the commitment
Reading the accounts, I have interpreted it as they have committed to spend £3m on future projects. In theory that could just be a deposit or down-payment towards future purchases. In general though, with the businesses I have worked in and reported for if the full future cost is know, we would disclose that amount. It gives shareholders an insight into what the board have committed to spend of their hard earned cash more than anything.
They can also refer to future commitments:
Commitments are agreements to perform in the future. Commitments consist of all obligations for future fiscal years. Examples of commitments would include operating lease payments on property. Problems in the area of commitments relate to recognition of expenditures in the proper period and disclosure of future payments.
Disclosure of commitments should include the nature, amounts and any unusual terms and uncertainties of the commitment
Reading the accounts, I have interpreted it as they have committed to spend £3m on future projects. In theory that could just be a deposit or down-payment towards future purchases. In general though, with the businesses I have worked in and reported for if the full future cost is know, we would disclose that amount. It gives shareholders an insight into what the board have committed to spend of their hard earned cash more than anything.
DistortAMG
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- POTC Disneyland Paris
So I think I read it correct then. They have committed 3.3 million for future ride hardware and plant. The question is, what ride hardware and what plant. Pretty sure the full cost of the coaster hardware itself is in there with that figure, but does it also include the log flume and what plant equipment. As that would then bring down the total cost committed for the coaster hardware.
Seeing as Looping group is a publicly traded company and the park have stated they have committed to a purchase of next years new ride, ie agreed a price. I am pretty certain that the 3.3 million is part of the total cost for the hardware, or multiple bits of hardware for multiple projects (not the total project cost). It is in their interest as a publicly traded company to disclose the true cost when it is known (it appears to be). When you commit to a new ride, you do not commit to just the deposit, even though that may only be paid upfront. You have still committed to the total cost.
For comparison. September 2021, the park had committed £1.6 million for ride hardware and plant. This was more than likely the total cost for the three flat rides for Vikings, as nothing extra is mentioned in this years report. The total cost to create the area including the rides cost roughly £7 million. This should give you an idea of how much everything that is not ride hardware can cost when creating an area from scratch. £5.5 million being spent on the area itself, Buffalo refurbishment and infrastructure to support the new ride hardware. Plus I have a feeling they may have included little bits of work that were done around the park and the zoo over that closed season.
So yeah. I am going back to my original stance based on what is in black and white. I mean, they should still get something pretty decent.
Peoples ideas of what stuff costs is usually pretty skewed anyway, as the total cost given by a park usually includes all works required to make the ride a reality and not just ride hardware.
Say if they are spending 2.5ish million on coaster hardware (the rest being the log flume hardware) they should still get something half decent. Just not something spectaular like people have made out. It could also point towards a possible prototype, hence the lower cost.
I missed this. Sorry that I came across that way. You haven't upset me at all! Tones are a difficult thing to interpret across the Internet. I was just trying to get my point across. It has made for a really interesting discussion though I am sure you will agree. So thank you for that.
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Themeparksandy1981
TS Member
As the report is up to September 2022 and includes this years ride wouldn’t this be for the log flume?
Like having the water treatment system wouldn’t be cheap.
Like having the water treatment system wouldn’t be cheap.
DistortAMG
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- POTC Disneyland Paris
Water treatment isn't too expensive now a days. The technology is so cheap anyone can have it in their homes in hot tubs. On a smaller scale. But the same technology. All you need really is a pump, filter and a way of putting chemicals into the water. Even so, 3.3 million on a log flume of that scale, is way out the ball park of what something like what is being built would cost.
I would have thought that too but the report specifically says this;
Now I am assuming that the commitment was made in the time frame of that financial report for 2x reasons.
1. It is mentioned in the report for that financial year.
2. Lead times that are currently needed for coaster hardware match up with a commitment being made within that fiscal year.
That said. There is a potential the commitment was made at a later date. In the time from Sept 2022 up until the report was released in Feb. In which case it won't be mentioned. But they would be cutting it fine if they want it open next year. But not totally out the realms of possibility. The reason why I think this is because in the same sentence they do state about the Halloween event. Which is outside of the reports remit.
It's all exciting but confusing right now.
I would have thought that too but the report specifically says this;
Now I am assuming that the commitment was made in the time frame of that financial report for 2x reasons.
1. It is mentioned in the report for that financial year.
2. Lead times that are currently needed for coaster hardware match up with a commitment being made within that fiscal year.
That said. There is a potential the commitment was made at a later date. In the time from Sept 2022 up until the report was released in Feb. In which case it won't be mentioned. But they would be cutting it fine if they want it open next year. But not totally out the realms of possibility. The reason why I think this is because in the same sentence they do state about the Halloween event. Which is outside of the reports remit.
It's all exciting but confusing right now.
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Themeparksandy1981
TS Member
It’s hard to judge prices as they report At 30 September 2021 the company had capital commitments for plant and machinery (rides) of £1,661,509Water treatment isn't too expensive now a days. The technology is so cheap anyone can have it in their homes in hot tubs. On a smaller scale. But the same technology. All you need really is a pump, filter and a way of putting chemicals into the water. Even so, 3.3 million on a log flume of that scale, is way out the ball park of what something like what is being built would cost.
I would have thought that too but the report specifically says this;
Now I am assuming that the commitment was made in the time frame of that financial report for 2x reasons.
1. It is mentioned in the report for that financial year.
2. Lead times that are currently needed for coaster hardware match up with a commitment being made within that fiscal year.
That said. There is a potential the commitment was made at a later date. In the time from Sept 2022 up until the report was released in Feb. In which case it won't be mentioned. But they would be cutting it fine if they want it open next year. But not totally out the realms of possibility. The reason why I think this is because in the same sentence they do state about the Halloween event. Which is outside of the reports remit.
It's all exciting but confusing right now.
Now that price must be for the wave swinger with the rapids coming in on the Sept 2022 report.
I can see Vikings costing 5-6 million with the rest of the rapids re-theme and cost of painting and theming Adventure Cove.
Zeock
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Journey to the Center of the Earth
QTXAdsy
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Black Hole
People lamenting of Drayton losing its Thrill market aspect and while I'm not exactly impressed about though honestly part of me can understand why of them dipping into the family market much like other parks across the country are doing now. The family market will no doubt have far more appeal than a purely Thrill market and will make the money and from a business sense it is a no brainer for if it will make them the money - at least in the short term for perhaps maybe returning to the Thrill market say in the long term perhaps like what Paultons might do - then of course they're going to go for it. Yes, many of us have expressed displeasure over how things have gone yet at the end of the day, we all want these parks to not only survive but thrive and in the case of Drayton here if this actually puts them in far more better place some years down the line then so be it.
At times, I think we’re all a little guilty of underestimating the costs of running a theme park and associated infrastructure costs. We all focus on the spin that companies present us with… “a £15million investment” etc etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if that figure in Draytons report does cover the log flume, the associated ground works, the (what looks to be) new motors on Maelstrom, ground clearance and prep for the new coaster site, apocalypse removal. They may have “committed” to the new ride hardware for 2024 but I still remain sceptical that’s anything other than a purchase order, contractual agreement / memorandum of understanding etc. On the thrill ride aspect, Staffordshire is not poorly served in the thrill department and Drayton have got to find that pathway that differentiates them. Having something that elder brother and sisters can navigate through at the park and enjoy, whilst younger siblings might enjoy Thomas Land means opportunities for multi-day stays, better hotel occupancy rates, expansion in to other accommodation options… it might not be what us “thoosies” want, but for them, I can absolutely see why they’re diversifying and providing more opportunities for families to have an enjoyable day out, rather than trying to compete with Towers on the thrill option (teens and thoosies) and limiting families / younger children to Thomas Land. It’s basically opening up the park - and for that, I’m genuinely quite excited to see how that manifests over the next few years. They’ve certainly got a very capable and very experienced management team in place (and a brilliant social media team, too) and seemingly, Looping view it as their flagship park and haven’t been shy in spending money there. Looping, to me, are doing all the right things there at the moment. Resurrecting the rapids, repainting and updating rides that were in a very poor condition, the new Vikings expansion etc. It’s hard to remember now (and with no disrespect to the Bryan’s), but they bought a park in very poor condition. Exciting times, I’d suggest. Whether it’s our preferred ride hardware or not. A strong and growing Drayton Manor is good for the UK industry. Much like Poultons.
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Themeparksandy1981
TS Member
It’s been nearly 30 years next year since Shockwave opened and was the only ride in the parks history that’s been for the 1.4m height. Like they had Apocalypse but still let 1.2m enjoy it by sitting down and when Pandemonium 1st opened it was 1.2m. Klondike was 1.2m. Not sure on G Force but in its final years was raised to 1.35m.
BigShadowtinytree
TS Member
As long as they don’t go down the Lightwater Valley route, which I don’t think they will, then I think Drayton will do just fine catering to families of all ages.
jon81uk
TS Member
It does feel like Drayton are going more down the Paulton route of all ages rather than just looking at kiddie rides and fairground rides. I think if DM install the coaster hardware Paultons have added over the last 10 years it would be pretty decent.
Shaggy_Dog_
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Ride To Happiness
Paulton’s have chosen their ride hardware extremely well. A Gertslauer Bobsled, Vekoma SFC, and Mack Spinner were all excellent choices for a family park. DM need to pick their rides just as well and I’m sure that they’ll be keeping an eye on what Emerald Park are doing also.
jon81uk
TS Member
Yep and coasters and maybe a small drop tower does feel like the gap in DMs line up, they have water rides, madhouse, shooter ride, 4D show, flat rides, train rides etc. More coasters and a dark ride are maybe the major gaps.
Agreed entirely. Hopefully without the risk of re-opening any form of Pirates discussion, the size of that building (or at least the area it sits on, especially if you include the Excalibur site next to it) is vast - they have so much opportunity ahead of them. Drayton have a fantastic selection of flats and the park is visually looking the best it’s looked in years. A couple of decent coaster investments chosen as well as Poultons chose theirs, coupled with development work to continue tidying up the area of the park from Pirates upwards in to a coherent theme and they’ve got a fantastic park on their hands. Big out and out thrill machines have their place, but I’d argue some of the best recent coaster installations across Europe have been in the “family thrill” category (don’t shoot me!).