Dreamland Margate: General Discussion

[Stuie]

With respect, I know I'm not very regular here these days but you are off the mark on a few things:

It wasn't "effectively less than 10 years old". It was a 100 year-old design, rebuilt with new wood, but still relying on 100 year old technology. It uses friction brakes operated manually by a human being riding on the train. When you rely on a brakeman to physically stop a multi-tonne train using a lever, "human error" is a feature, not a bug. It doesn't matter how fresh the wood is, the system is still an antique.

The system is not antique and does not rely on a brakeman to stop a multi-tonne train. The coaster has a block system and automated braking. The onboard brakeman is a largely nostalgic feature and the ride has a PLC and automated braking system, since it was rebuilt.

The control system incorporates a patented ‘ride supervisory system’ consisting of a sequencing PLC and a supervisory safety controller.

Please stop using legal terms like "injunction" as if they are magic wands that can force a company to do what you want.

An injunction is typically a court order to stop someone from doing something (like knocking the ride down). It is very rarely used to force specific performance of a commercial action, especially one that loses money.

The site is designated as an amusement park in the local plan. When the owner decided he wanted to retire and sell the site for housing the local community protested and the council successfully compulsory purchased the site so that it could remain an amusement park. The thing you are saying can't happen has already happened once, There has been no change of use to outside music venue - this is tolerated to support it's viability as an amusement park.

Court of Appeal upholds CPO by council of site of famous amusement park

While the Turner was a good asset it's failed to really connect with the local population.

Alot of money was diverted into the seafront but like alot of seaside towns step one street back and it's very poor and a dump.

(Often cited as London's unwanted locally)

The area has alot of beautiful mini towns and seafronts and even an Italian enclave!

So while it might boast Tracey Emin and Madonna, it's probably lumped in with Thanet as a whole.

So while yes it's becoming trendy for Londoners (it connects to HS1) it's probably written about the area and Thanet as opposed to margate.

The coastline is incredibly diverse with many different sea fronts. (If you ever get the chance take a day and walk from Ramsgate to Margate Turner and your see).

It's well worth a visit though and I'd highly recommend the UK's biggest Spoons in Ramsgate then an ice-cream in the Italian looking Viking Bay (by Italian ice-cream makers) before heading to Margate!

Turner wasn't intended for the local population - it got approval and funding as a catalyst for inward investment and regeneration. On this, it's been hugely successful and has played a massive part in the story of the town, as did reopening of Dreamland.

The Tracey Emin connection, and Madonna, is specific to Margate. Tracey grew up here, she own many properties in the town and has been a beacon of its revival.

House prices in Margate are higher than the rest of East Kent. You are correct, like all seaside towns there are pockets of deprivation, but 'poor and a dump' is outrageously incorrect.

The average house price in Margate is £317,055 using HM Land Registry data. The average property price increased by £29,144 (9.99%) over the last 5 years and increased by £5,825 (1.85%) over the last 12 months.

 

[rob666]

...as against Blackpool, where there are a selection of properties available for less than twenty grand.

Every visitor to Margate, and there are now a lot more of them apparently, was a possible coaster punter, if it was open and running.

 

[Quantum]

So Margate is going full hipster, it's no wonder they want to move away from the traditional seaside image. I'm not buying the excuse from the park, it's a commercial choice based on a move to live music, I just wish they were more honest about it.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

With respect, I know I'm not very regular here these days but you are off the mark on a few things:

The system is not antique and does not rely on a brakeman to stop a multi-tonne train. The coaster has a block system and automated braking. The onboard brakeman is a largely nostalgic feature and the ride has a PLC and automated braking system, since it was rebuilt.

The control system incorporates a patented ‘ride supervisory system’ consisting of a sequencing PLC and a supervisory safety controller.

I am always happy to be corrected when presented with evidence, so I will concede the point regarding the PLC overlay on the Scenic Railway. It appears they have indeed modernised the safety systems significantly more than the traditional operation I alluded to. I shall consider my wings clipped on that specific technicality.

However, I feel we are looking at the legal and economic reality through very different lenses regarding the site's future.

The site is designated as an amusement park in the local plan. When the owner decided he wanted to retire and sell the site for housing the local community protested and the council successfully compulsory purchased the site so that it could remain an amusement park. The thing you are saying can't happen has already happened once, There has been no change of use to outside music venue - this is tolerated to support it's viability as an amusement park.

Court of Appeal upholds CPO by council of site of famous amusement park

A CPO is a mechanism to transfer ownership, usually to prevent a specific action (in this case, redevelopment into housing by the previous owner) or to facilitate a specific scheme. It is not a magical forcefield that guarantees commercial viability in perpetuity.

The Council stepped in to save the heritage asset, yes, but a council cannot force a private operator to run a business at a loss indefinitely, nor can the council afford to prop up a failing amusement park forever with public funds (especially given the current state of local authority finances nationwide). If the current operator walks away, or goes bust, and no other operator steps in because the margins don't work... the site sits empty. "Designated as an amusement park" simply means you can't build flats there without changing the designation. Local Plans are reviewed and amended all the time. If a site sits derelict for 10 years because it's not viable as a park, eventually the pressure to re-designate for housing (which the country desperately needs) becomes overwhelming.

History is littered with "saved" heritage assets that eventually succumbed to economic reality. The CPO bought time and opportunity, but it did not buy immortality.

Turner wasn't intended for the local population - it got approval and funding as a catalyst for inward investment and regeneration. On this, it's been hugely successful and has played a massive part in the story of the town, as did reopening of Dreamland.

The Tracey Emin connection, and Madonna, is specific to Margate. Tracey grew up here, she own many properties in the town and has been a beacon of its revival.

House prices in Margate are higher than the rest of East Kent. You are correct, like all seaside towns there are pockets of deprivation, but 'poor and a dump' is outrageously incorrect.

The average house price in Margate is £317,055 using HM Land Registry data. The average property price increased by £29,144 (9.99%) over the last 5 years and increased by £5,825 (1.85%) over the last 12 months.

High house prices are not a metric of success for a local population, instead they are a metric of gentrification. The fact that house prices have risen by nearly 10% is fantastic for people moving down from London and second home owners. It is less fantastic for the local workforce on minimum wage who can no longer afford to live in their own town.

This is the "Brighton effect". You paint a few buildings, open an art gallery and suddenly a flat costs £400k. That doesn't mean the poverty has vanished, it just means it's been pushed into HMOs a few streets back from the seafront.

Margate has pockets of extreme deprivation, some of the highest in the South East. A high average house price skews the data because of the influx of external wealth, it doesn't necessarily reflect the median income or living standards of the indigenous population.

It is perfectly possible for a town to be a "dump" (in terms of street cleanliness, crime, and lack of opportunity for locals) and "expensive" (for property) at the same time.