AT86
TS Member
They do of course have an agreement for the ride at Heide Park, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they have the rights to any further use of the brand for other attractions at the moment.
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They do of course have an agreement for the ride at Heide Park, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they have the rights to any further use of the brand for other attractions at the moment.
TroySmith1
TS Member
I’m sorry but there just nothing to freshen up anymore, the scenes aren’t even that great? There so basic, it’s so dated now that the cardboard sets, tacky fairground UV paint, non existent back light props, it’s all very 90s and just doesn’t work anymore, The whole thing just needs gutting now. The only scene you could potentially save is the first dinning room scene. But even this isn’t exactly hard to replicate, it’s not exactly riddled in impressive detail or originality. All the mechanics are rigid, skeletons and zombies are halloween or fairground worthy. But not in world class theme-park. Please tell me what’s worth saving in there now? Maybe some props in the que line I would say potentially and that’s about it.
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Trooper Looper
TS Member
You'd be surprised how much of a difference small changes can make. If the ride was actually taken care well enough we wouldn't be here having a conversation about it. It wasn't always a cheesy shooter you know. Take a look at this, it used to be a just a regular ghost train, and quite the impressive one IMO.
Video Credit By British Theme Park Archive.
Yes I agree though that the zombie props need scrapping A1, they are awful. The mechanics need major reworking or replacing. The sets however are just fine, but the lighting really doesn't give them the justice it should be getting when it was The Haunted House, back when it had proper theatrical lighting.
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TroySmith1
TS Member
Yes I understand your point, I suppose in some ways it’s hard to imagine how this ride can be upgraded with so many shocking attempts previously. It’s almost like they dug it into such a deep hole now, it’s imprinted something I’d rather forget. In the hope of something new and fresh. The video you posted is by far miles better than what stands today. It’s atmospheric, the effects work how they were originally designed too and the lighting is superb. However that today would be still classed as an old fashioned ride now from the sets I.E that plastic fake stone walls they use on all traveler ghost trains and polystyrene props. They just wouldn’t be up to today standards. Personal opinion but I just feel UV lights and props looks cheap and tacky in general now. Maybe because you always see the trick used in budget attractions or halloween stores/mazes etc. I don’t know I just feel it’s time for change.
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Themeparksandy1981
TS Member
Duel and tomb blaster should never have been turned into a shooting ride.
Like for starters with Duel if they just had the targets on the ghosts, Zombies and monsters it wouldn’t have been so bad but to have them everywhere most guests don’t even pay attention to the theming and props so when regular guests go they comment on how poor the ride is getting but average guest just care that they beaten there family or friends scores.
Like for starters with Duel if they just had the targets on the ghosts, Zombies and monsters it wouldn’t have been so bad but to have them everywhere most guests don’t even pay attention to the theming and props so when regular guests go they comment on how poor the ride is getting but average guest just care that they beaten there family or friends scores.
TroySmith1
TS Member
That’s so true why do the place the targets everywhere, it’s so lazy! Plus the props weren’t designed too move too the trigger. So it’s all just static and not really that interactive. Rides like universal “Men in black” I’m not against as it has more of a purpose in terms of interaction. But I feel you still take in the scenery and the amazing sets. But there on such a large scale it’s hard not too notice.
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Themeparksandy1981
TS Member
Drayton Manors shootout is interactive so if a family run theme park (at the time it was installed and Re-themed) can built 1 I’m sure Merlin could have easily done the same at Alton and Chessington.
Trooper Looper
TS Member
I dont see how people could call this outdated, especially with its original lighting. I think if it was still around and preserved, it would be Worlds best Ghost train outside of a Disney Park, and would be highly praised by Enthusiasts. The problem is why people think its outdated because the camera footage really doesn't give it justice. If it was filmed on 4k, I feel that people's opinion on gutting it down would be very different.
Ive said this earlier on the forum, and I'll say it again, bulldozing what's already on there would be a huge regret, as the ride is one of the most important in the Parks History, as it was John Wardley's (The guy that would soom make Nemesis) first ride he designed in the park, along with the Runaway Mine Train. And thanks to Keith Sparks for its unique theatrical style.
it was also the setting stone for the park becoming what it is today, a high quality park with British charm to it with all or its unique theming.
The Haunted House/Duel is also one of John's and Sparks last remaining pieces of work that isn't Roller Coaster related. If it was to be replaced, it's replacement would be incredibly mediocre. You don't need to be an Einstein to know how Merlin work. It would lack the unique monsters, and concepts the ride currently has still. Where else can you find a room coming to life around you? Where else can you find a Demon Ghost the size of a person? Where else can you find a dark room full of screaming heads? You get what I mean?
If you ask me I think that Disneys Haunted Mansion looks just as "outdated" to The Haunted House did, but I don't see people complaining about it. Its because that it's still around, with high quality footage of what it looks like in person, it went from looking old fashioned, to a Park Classic.
All I can hope that one day Duel gets the refurb/retrofit it deserves, like Speeelunker Cave at Six Flags over Tezas, which is a classic Dark Ride that closed in the 90s, but that's coming back as "Pirates of Speelunker Cave." And I'm very looking forward to see what's in store for it
Ive said this earlier on the forum, and I'll say it again, bulldozing what's already on there would be a huge regret, as the ride is one of the most important in the Parks History, as it was John Wardley's (The guy that would soom make Nemesis) first ride he designed in the park, along with the Runaway Mine Train. And thanks to Keith Sparks for its unique theatrical style.
it was also the setting stone for the park becoming what it is today, a high quality park with British charm to it with all or its unique theming.
The Haunted House/Duel is also one of John's and Sparks last remaining pieces of work that isn't Roller Coaster related. If it was to be replaced, it's replacement would be incredibly mediocre. You don't need to be an Einstein to know how Merlin work. It would lack the unique monsters, and concepts the ride currently has still. Where else can you find a room coming to life around you? Where else can you find a Demon Ghost the size of a person? Where else can you find a dark room full of screaming heads? You get what I mean?
If you ask me I think that Disneys Haunted Mansion looks just as "outdated" to The Haunted House did, but I don't see people complaining about it. Its because that it's still around, with high quality footage of what it looks like in person, it went from looking old fashioned, to a Park Classic.
All I can hope that one day Duel gets the refurb/retrofit it deserves, like Speeelunker Cave at Six Flags over Tezas, which is a classic Dark Ride that closed in the 90s, but that's coming back as "Pirates of Speelunker Cave." And I'm very looking forward to see what's in store for it
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Matt N
TS Member
With the HH being a 90s ride, it’s hard to tell how it would be received today if it were still around in its original form. It might still be well received (I obviously don’t know), but with regard to your comment about the lack of 4K video making it look worse, I almost wonder the opposite. Could that have benefitted people’s memories of HH, as a lower quality video camera is less likely to pick up on the smaller holes in an experience like the ones many see in Duel today, such as extractor fans and lighting in places where it shouldn’t be? In those old HH POVs, the cameras wouldn’t have been as good at picking up the surrounding details, and would have been hyper-focused on the main theming piece, whereas the modern day cameras filming Duel in its present state are much better at picking up that sort of thing in the background.I dont see how people could call this outdated, especially with its original lighting. I think if it was still around and preserved, it would be Worlds best Ghoat train outside of a Disney Park, and would be highly praised by Enthusiasts. The problem is why people think its outdated because the camera footage really doesn't give it justice. If it was filmed on 4k, I feel that people's opinion on gutting it down would be very different.
Ive said this earlier on the forum, and I'll say it again, bulldozing what's already on there would be a huge regret, as the ride is one of the most important in the Parks History, as it was John Wardley's (The guy that would soom make Nemesis) first ride he designed in the park, along with the Runaway Mine Train. And thanks to Keith Sparks for its unique theatrical style.
it was also the setting stone for the park becoming what it is today, a high quality park with British charm to it with all or its unique theming.
The Haunted House/Duel is also one of John's and Sparks last remaining pieces of work that isn't Roller Coaster related. If it was to be replaced, it's replacement would be incredibly mediocre. You don't need to be an Einstein to know how Merlin work. It would lack the unique monsters, and concepts the ride currently has still. Where else can you find a room coming to life around you? Where else can you find a Demon Ghost the size of a person? Where else can you find a dark room full of screaming heads? You get what I mean?
If you ask me I think that Disneys Haunted Mansion looks just as "outdated" to The Haunted House did, but I don't see people complaining about it. Its because that it's still around, with high quality footage of what it looks like in person, it went from looking old fashioned, to a Park Classic.
All I can hope that one day Duel gets the refurb/retrofit ot deserves, like Speeelunker Cave at Six Flags over Tezas, which is a classic Dark Ride that closed in the 90s, but that's coming back as "Pirates of Speelunker Cave." And I'm very looking forward to see what's in store for it
For what it’s worth; when reading back through this thread, a few people who were around back when the HH closed said that it already felt outdated by 2002, and there was “no great outpouring of loss” for it when it was announced as closing. Admittedly, maintenance could have played a role in that, but the 2002 video you showed the other day still looked pretty similar to all the 1990s videos you hail as the ride’s prime. With 20 years having passed since the original HH’s closure; any “outdatedness” people felt an attraction had in 2002 would only be exacerbated if the attraction in question were still around today, what with 20 years of advances in technology.
I’m not trying to understate HH’s status at the time of its opening or undermine its role in Alton Towers’ history by any stretch; I know that it was hugely well received upon opening, and was hugely influential in boosting Alton Towers’ fortunes.
However, while I’ve said this before, I’ll say it again; with 20 years having passed since HH’s closure, people’s memories of the original HH getting ever hazier, and the number of people who never experienced HH ever increasing, I do wonder about how much of the ride’s current status is based on nostalgia, whether that be people’s own nostalgia of the time or borrowed nostalgia. This might sound stupid, but nostalgia can be a very powerful thing; for instance, I have brilliant memories of riding CATCF from when I was a child, but I was only 11 when I last rode it, and based on its general reception on here being starkly negative, I’m not going to deny that nostalgia from my own childhood is probably making me remember that ride as being stronger than it actually was. For all intents and purposes, the HH is still with us; as much as people like to paint Duel and HH as being totally different attractions, with the latter usually being hailed as far superior, I think that you’d be surprised at how similar the ride would actually be if you reverted it back to its original specification. Based on the videos I’ve seen of HH in its original form, there wouldn’t be an awful lot of difference at all.
I think your example of Haunted Mansion is an interesting one. Having ridden it, I absolutely wouldn’t call it outdated; I really liked the attraction! However, I’d be very, very surprised if that ride still operates to its exact original specification; I’d wager that Disney has probably made at very least minor technical updates to it over the years to keep it relevant. From memory, there are certain bits of technology in HM that I’d be surprised if they were around when the ride opened in the 70s. If HM had been kept to its exact original specification, I think the crowd calling it outdated would be far larger.
Sorry if that whole post sounds massively confrontational or disregarding of your opinion; that wasn’t my intent. I guess you probably know far more about HH than me, anyway, as you seem very passionate about it. I know a lot of my argument is probably at least partially based on conjecture, which undermines it a bit compared to yours.
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Trooper Looper
TS Member
I totally understand where you're coming from. The Haunted House was really not in good shape during its latter years when the original lighting was replaced with standard lighting, as it started to have big changes for no valid reasons. It looked really outdated because of all the alterations by Tussauds and its lack of preservation. It looked brilliant at the beginning of its life, but not so much during its mid and last years.
I don’t mean the HH as a whole, I was referring to its opening week state when talking about if it was in 4K. When the Ghost Corridor worked, and the Swamp monster (nessie) actually rose.
If you really want to know what the Original Haunted Mansion looked like, just take a look at a POV of Tokyo Disneylands Haunted Mansion. It's practically a recreation of what the OG HM looked like on opening day, and it's still around, untouched. I've never really heard that many people complain about it much older look though, though that may be because not many English speaking people have been there.
I think it proves that not every world dark ride doesn't need to be the most modern one.
Matt N
TS Member
I get where you’re coming from, but I’d argue that the same issue is still there even in that particular case. The video cameras from the time wouldn’t have been as good at picking up the type of surrounding flaws that make people dislike Duel today, so for all we know, many of those flaws may still have existed even in the ride’s prime, and the videos simply don’t show them as well.
Trooper Looper
TS Member
Oh i agree with you in that statement. The thing is that I think that when it originally opened, i assumed that the mechanics were hidden a lot better than it's present state.
Another reason why the mechanics were hidden well was because of the heavy use of Blacklight (UV) by Rex Studios, meaning that only specific figures in a very thin layer of UV paint would actually show up when a UV light is lit on them, whilst everything else would stay hidden. The ride now currently uses very cheap LED lighting, which shouldn't belong in a dark ride.
I can’t help but think this is being overthought about, the ride isn’t in a good state because it hasn’t been looked after properly and has had lots of cheap fixes. It’s not in brilliant condition however it’s unlikely to get any major work at the moment as it’s fairly popular and probably isn’t that expensive to operate.
TroySmith1
TS Member
worded that perfectly, Thank you I also completely agree how the human brain can be biased based on nostalgia reasons. It happens a lot in these forums, but I also understand the fear of the new to validate the need to hold on to the past. Also Merlin are great at pumping that fear, but they can do it with a budget.
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TroySmith1
TS Member
I wouldn’t say popular, it’s a filler attraction for the public when you have had enough of long ques or roller coasters or just simply want to be inside. You have to pass by it through your path so you get a lot of the “may as well”
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Look, it's popular enough that people know it as something they do when the go Alton Towers, most people who visit ride it as it's one of them few attractions that pretty much the whole family can do together.
Squiggs
TS Team
This feels like a misrepresentation of what was going on at the time.
Whilst I would agree that the reaction to Duel being announced was fairly muted and there was “no great outpouring of loss”, the news that people were reacting to wasn't that The Haunted House was closing. The park were very clear that what they were doing was revamping/upgrading The Haunted House, which most people agreed was much needed. There is a reason that Duel has the tag line of "The Haunted House Strikes Back" - this was the park emphasising that the attraction wasn't going anywhere.
Also, you have to bear in mind that at this point Tussauds were well known for adding high quality attractions - they had very few misses over the previous 15 years, so if Tussauds said they were upgrading something, it was broadly expected that it would be good. To be honest, it is almost the inverse of where we are now with Merlin, where even if an attraction sounds good on paper, you almost have to expect it won't have the budget required to do it justice.
In contrast to the community's reaction when Duel was first announced, the reaction to the ride when it opened was pretty poor all round. Even the reviews that rated it as good still highlighted how bad it actually was. When discussing the new zombies, a four-star review at the time included the line: "Frankly, I expect better animation from a pop-up book." And lots of those criticisms from day one are essentially the same ones being discussed today.
It is worth pointing out that one of the recurring features of those early discussions was just how bad Duel's lighting was in comparison to The Haunted House. I don't think it can be stressed enough that when you are riding Duel, whenever you can see either the ceiling or walls of the building, you would not have been able to see them in the Haunted House. The lighting was so much better designed and so much darker that essentially you only ever saw what the ride designers intended you to see. And if there was any chance that the riders might see a bare wall - it was themed, so it blended in.
Or you saw nothing at all because whatever was supposed to happen in the scene was broken and/or switched off. That's most of my memories of Haunted House from 2002, a lot of darkness.
(Which I completely agree is infinitely preferable to a poorly lit scene which shows up the warehouse structure.)
Edit to add: given the park planned the Duel 'upgrade', it's very possible the ride's maintenance was intentionally allowed to slip that season.
jon81uk
TS Member
It's not just notaglia, children see things very differently to adults. So as a child you saw an amazing CATCF ride. But the adults noticed the wasted space between each scene and the fact there wasn't any signficant animation to the figures on the ride and similar.