Duel: The Haunted House Actually Strikes Back - Refurb Incoming

[ChristmasPud]

I have screenshotted this as a tool to explain how different my mindset is as the resident anti-enthusiast enthusiast.

It's referring to the aroma machines, Rick. The house had a very distinct smell, which you would instantly recognise, courtesy of very potent aroma effects which have now mostly been removed. If you don't realise the difference this makes then that's your personal mindset.

It's actually hard not to notice the distinct aroma so dont dress this up like we are some extreme nostalgia whores or something. A working aroma effect is a working aroma effect, and makes a big atmospheric difference.

I think there is a lot of nostalgia here.

I don't. Duel is quite objectively utter trash at the moment, and pretty incapable of entertaining anyone, laser guns or no laser guns. These days, the 80s-style laser tag are the most dated thing about it!

Your 'typical park guest' would almost certainly enjoy a working, professional and dramatic ride, over the current broken, falling apart and distorted cheap ghost train experience with broken guns.

But of course it's easier just to use the 'nostalgia' card as an excuse to let it rot, like Merlin do with all their older rides.

I'm not saying that's a good thing - I just wonder if the original incarnation of The Haunted House would have the same reception in 2018 or whatever. I think on the whole society is far more apathetic and cynical of stuff like that now. It would be far tamer than the experiences offered in the Scarefest mazes and those certainly attract their fair share of people who just go through the motions.

Society was apathetic back then too! But a good ride is a good ride. I dont know what you're impression of the Haunted House is, probably that it was lame after much change in the late 90s & 2000s, but originally it was far more professional and a different ride than it is today. That really isn't subjective or nostalgia, it's pretty obvious.

Also the ride was for a family demographic (that doesn't mean it cant be frightening and atmospheric, but puts it in a totally different market to a scare maze). It was very successful and boosted attendance at Alton Towers a lot with families .. It was far bigger, atmospheric and more impressive than say any family attraction built at Alton Towers in the last 15 years.

I wouldnt want it to be restored exactly as it was in 1992, because we have less limitations with transit systems & effects now. I'd want it to be an even better and more dramatic haunted house, not generic like it is currently, and then it would be very well enjoyed by the public.

 

[PeteB]

It'd be better off removing the big cringey zombie tomb blocking the view from the Gloomy Wood.

Now that we can definitely agree on. Hate that fun-sucking, view-blocking tomb!

It would be far tamer than the experiences offered in the Scarefest mazes and those certainly attract their fair share of people who just go through the motions.

It was never that scary to be honest, except maybe to the very young. Not like scare mazes. Each have their own place, and I love scare mazes, but you cannot be a good quality scary dark ride for scenary, tricks and illusions.

Reopening of Sub-Terra

Err what??

I'd love it if Sub Terra did come back but I thought it was already accepted the ride was gone forever?

I have screenshotted this as a tool to explain how different my mindset is as the resident anti-enthusiast enthusiast.

It's referring to the aroma machines, Rick. The house had a very distinct smell, which you would instantly recognise, courtesy of very potent aroma effects which have now mostly been removed. If you don't realise the difference this makes then that's your personal mindset.

It's actually hard not to notice the distinct aroma so dont dress this up like we are some extreme nostalgia whores or something. A working aroma effect is a working aroma effect, and makes a big atmospheric difference.

The house definitely has vortex machines, maybe not as many as it once did but the Ents Team still have access to them at least as they're often installed in scare mazes for halloween.

As far as I know, Dale Air still supply the aromas and equipment as they always have. I've got/and used some of their kit and it's brilliant stuff.

 

[ChristmasPud]

The potent smell in the ride itself got removed I believe, because a particular ingredient in it got banned some years ago! This might be why it smells less or different. Personally I think it could do with some more, but the queueline is where it hits you best and still smells distinctly old and horrid there last I went.

And no, people obviously won't vocally "care" that an effect is missing, but they will certainly have a way more effective experience with everything working as designed and will come off having enjoyed it far more. That's the pricipal of theatre right? It's not a coaster or a flat ride, its a dark ride.

 

[PeteB]

The potent smell in the ride itself got removed I believe, because a particular ingredient in it got banned some years ago! This might be why it smells less or different. Personally I think it could do with some more, the queueline is where it hits you as smelling very old and horrid, and it's still pretty good there last I went.

And no, people obviously won't vocally "care" that the smell is missing, but they will certainly have a way more effective experience with everything working as designed. That's the pricipal of theatre right? It's not a coaster or a flat ride, its a dark ride.

Can you recall the name of the smell's used? I'm sure they're listed in the Haunted House book (don't have it near me) and if so will still be available on Dale Air's website.

The entrance hall used "musty" I think. I had a sample of that once, and it does stink lol!

 

[ChristmasPud]

'Garden Shed' I fink, but that was for the old swamp ending. Yeah Dale Air are awesome and I have no idea how they do it. They can seemingly create any smell down to the last detail. I didn't even know how smells could have that effect or be so distinct. I wonder where I leant it from...

Oh yeah, from being a young 'average park guest' on UK dark rides - when they worked properly!

 

[Rick]

@electricBill I'm not going for a full on quote fest, we've covered all this a million times. But quickly:-

It's actually hard not to notice the distinct aroma so dont dress this up like we are some extreme nostalgia whores or something. A working aroma effect is a working aroma effect, and makes a big atmospheric difference.

I'm not sure how nostalgia doesn't come into it? You were 7 (or perhaps just turned 8) when Haunted House closed for the final time? How there is no nostalgia associated experiences on the ride is beyond me.

I don't. Duel is quite objectively utter trash at the moment, and pretty incapable of entertaining anyone, laser guns or no laser guns. These days, the 80s-style laser tag are the most dated thing about it!.

It's not incapable of entertaining me and the people I visit the park with, both young and old. We're not jaded about the whole thing. We never fail to ride it and have a good time. It's one of the few rides at Alton where a family of five with some short kids can sit together and have a great time all together and not be in a train with a bunch of other people.

If you're a dark ride enthusiast, all the stuff you're talking about matters. If you're eight years old, love shooting stuff and you're too short to ride the B&Ms... Duel is the ride for you. No queue, lengthy ride time and it's different every time because of the much maligned interactive element.

Come to think of it, I think we have more on ride photos from Duel than we do from anything else.

 

[PeteB]

I wonder if, when the refurb comes around, they could change the shooting system to work without LED's?

Duel is the only shoot em up dark ride I can think of nowadays which has LED's everywhere, most newer onese have hidden sensors.

I think that is half the problem with Duel tbh. You don't see the scenery because everyone is just looking for the little LED lights. Men In Black for example, you see all of the scenery because there are no specific targets. I feel the quality of the ride would be much improved if it was done this way.

 

[BenTechy66]

I wonder if, when the refurb comes around, they could change the shooting system to work without LED's?

Duel is the only shoot em up dark ride I can think of nowadays which has LED's everywhere, most newer ones have hidden sensors.

I think that is half the problem with Duel tbh. You don't see the scenery because everyone is just looking for the little LED lights. Men In Black, for example, you see all of the scenery because there are no specific targets. I feel the quality of the ride would be much improved if it was done this way.

but then the chavs (who are the reason the guns were introduced) won't know where to shoot!

 

[ChristmasPud]

I'm not sure how nostalgia doesn't come into it? You were 7 (or perhaps just turned 8) when Haunted House closed for the final time? How there is no nostalgia associated experiences on the ride is beyond me.

You are conflating nostalgia with quality and that is really the only basis on which you're dismissing my point. I don't give a jot about the Haunted House other than the fact it wasn't the busted, generic and broken ride it is now.

I never even went on it, so how can it be about nostalgia? I'm just fed up with the ride getting increasingly broken and amateur, which the majority of punters expressing online seem unhappy with, when clearly it has just been left to fester by the park. All this time, we could have been enjoying a much better & more dramatic ride, had it simply been maintained as it should have.

As paying guests, we have paid for a working ride of quality, not an embarassing, broken ride. Most big scenes have been littered with cheap effects or poorly relit & painted over, so they look like a trashy ghost train. I also know how effective a good dark ride can be with a big audience, just we barely have anything left in the UK on that front, so no wonder the idea gets dismissed.

We never fail to ride it and have a good time. It's one of the few rides at Alton where a family of five with some short kids can sit together and have a great time all together and not be in a train with a bunch of other people.

So why is this an excuse to leaving it so poor and broken?

I'm not arguing that kids don't like shooting stuff. But the laser element hardly improves Duel, it just distracts you from the fact it is barely working anymore. Alton Towers should build a much better shooter ride in that case, and dedicate Duel/Haunted House to being a great dark ride again, better than before. Not a corpse.


If you don't mind me saying, if you are completely unreceptive to any kind of theme effect and deride people for caring about aroma, lighting, etc, saying that only "dark ride enthusiasts" care about that, then you are jaded compared to the average family or punter that the ride is aimed at.

And if it's not your bag, that's fine, but don't be astounded that anyone could think differently and dismiss it as "nostalgia".

This isn't some elitist thing for finnicky enthusiasts. I've worked in shows, dark rides, events, etc and can tell you average punters certainly do respond much better to quality and effects, even when they don't have a clue what's happening under the hood (which is usually the point).

 

[yoursilentface]

I can't get into any technical details about the ride but what I Will say is that my 9 and 6 year old children love this ride

If it was up to them they'd ride it 10 times on the bounce If they could

So from that point of view there's still plenty of life left

And you never know next years TLC which its down for may make as good a job as they have done on hex

 

[ChristmasPud]

I remember being a 7, 8, 9 year old on Duel when it was new. It felt weird, kind of clunky but compelling. I liked the shooting but found the rest of it more fun after a while, the act of going through the dark and not knowing what surprises were coming. Even then it was a lot more dramatic than it is now, like a huge, detailed ghost train. However after a while, I stopped caring, because it would look worse every year and began to seem pathetic.

But when I discovered how it used to be everything I loved but 10x better, and how things that had been broken for years used to actually play out as a surprise and be far more characteristic, I was astounded, still aged 9, 10, etc.

I was an average punter, my family didn't even like parks, but somehow I remembered the atmosphere it created with things like the smell, the darkness and lighting trickery (which there is almost none left now), the pace, the creative look and big creatures and effects. Everything I saw that came to light of the Haunted House was just more of what I liked, except not cheapened by years of bad management.

Years later I met many people who'd been inspired to go into the industry as youngsters because of rides like The Haunted House, (original) BubbleWorks, etc when they were new, and went on to be well known figures in the industry.

I also lived an hour or so from these parks and know many average people who remember their trips there, who saw the difference. These people have no disposition for theme parks other than being a punter, they are not "dark rides enthusiasts", they maybe visited once every 2 years, they are not pining for some long lost past. But they still remembered it well, had a great laugh and realised the same rides are so different and run down today.

Now by logic on this topic, all these kinds of people must be some kind of enthusiast elite, or clearly aren't sane if they acknowledge creepy smells and having fun on a ride that doesn't even have laser guns in it. Any memory that the rides used to be different & better must clearly be false and nostalgic...

If some dont get dark rides and themed attractions, thats fine. I don't like Star Wars, but I can empathise with people who do, I wouldnt go on to a Star Wars forum and say "Who cares about the camerawork, who cares about the sets, do you think your average viewer cares if CGI is added? You're just nostalgic film enthusiasts", simply because I was unreceptive to it.

 

[Rick]

If some dont get dark rides and themed attractions, thats fine. I don't like Star Wars, but I can empathise with people who do, I wouldnt go on to a Star Wars forum and say "Who cares about the camerawork, who cares about the sets, do you think your average viewer cares if CGI is added? You're just nostalgic film enthusiasts", simply because I was unreceptive to it.

This is my whole point. Rides, films, music etc are enjoyed on multiple levels by people with different levels of interest and it's the mainstream one that holds water in terms of business decisions relating to upgrades/sequels.

If we continue with the movie analogy, you have Joe Public going to their local cinema to watch the latest comic book film and collectively they spend north of $1bn doing so. Then you have a critic that for all sorts of reasons thinks that it sucks and makes it clear in their review.

I am in no way saying that your opinion is invalid, neither is that of the critic - quite the opposite, but I think the bulk of what you are touching on, in terms of the minute details fades into obscurity for the bulk of riders and therefore it isn't addressed as you would perhaps like.

You could suggest that Joe Public would like it more if the aroma effect was there, or if in a film they had used a slightly wider shot to show the sheer size of that explosion when that bus blew up, etc but I put it to you that they are not invested enough in the ride or film to wonder 'What if...?'.

We can have a debate about whether that's right or wrong, but perhaps that's one for another day.

I can't get into any technical details about the ride but what I Will say is that my 9 and 6 year old children love this ride

If it was up to them they'd ride it 10 times on the bounce If they could

^ Yeah, this.

 

[MaxPower]

The problem is a lot of younger visitors won't know or remember how good the Haunted House used to be, or how good the rest of the park was for that matter.

They don't know what it was like before they started selling Fasttrack tickets and when there was on park entertainment.

I know not everything was better back in the day, but overall it was a far nicer experience that what's currently on offer and you could tell the park was really trying.

I would much rather take a stroll into a 1996 Festival Park than dodge all the overgrown weeds and nettles in the 2017 Dark Forest for example.

The bar is currently being set by Merlin to a new generation of customers who don't know any better. They enjoy sub-par attractions and pay the extortionate prices because they haven't experienced it any other way.

 

[ChristmasPud]

But this isn't the case of a blockbuster popcorn movie making £1bn despite it having poor critic reviews, with Duel it's currently more like watching Troll 2. It could be fixed tomorrow if Merlin just spent the money, a fraction of the money they currently spend on failing projects and misfires anyway.

I get that you're trying to put across the other side of the argument, that's fair. But why be so adamantly critical on people who want to push for better standards in the UK? Fixing the ride would improve the experience for everyone, to whatever degree they are receptive to. Wheras ensuring that it's kept broken simply worsens it year on year until the ride becomes so esoteric (like currently, I believe).

Also children aren't brain dead, give them credit for their imagination - the majority won't initially realise what's broken, do you think these kids, going round it 10 times on the trot, wouldn't love it far better if the other half the ride was actually working? I can certainly relate to this, having grown up with the ride as Duel.
Do you think they'd react no differently to an effect/target flying towards them at speed with sharp timing and dramatic lighting, than if it half trundled around a corner with broken sound and bits broken off it? Or lit up with all the mechanism clearly showing?

In the UK we will always have terrible standards compared to other countries if attitudes like this aren't challenged and the "nostalgia" or "only enthusiasts will notice" cards keep being used. The real & only reason professional AV / FX maintenance doen't happen in UK parks (despite almost every other ents industry managing it), is because it saves money.

I can't wait for in 10 years time Derren Brown's Ghost Train (which I may not personally like but I know many do) to also have broken lighting, all mechanisms showing, missing music & audio, any original detail painted over black, cheap Halloween decorations added all over, and anyone who used to know it better to be told "That's just nostalgia, it's perfect as it is, kids like it..".

Anyway, you will be pleased to hear I've got nothing more to add! I think I've made the point and you've made yours.

 

[AstroDan]

Duel is still a decent ride.

It could of course be better, and I trust with some TLC to come soon, it will improve.

There are far, far, FAR worse dark rides both here and abroad.

 

[themeparkfan]

I doubt DBGT will last two or three years let alone ten. After one ride and I don't think I will be riding it again. Is it me or does anyone else feel it lacks the reridable factor?

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[AstroDan]

DBGT is a totally different proposition to Duel. It's labour intensive, for one - whereas Duel needs 3 staff + relief.

 

[ChristmasPud]

It's not totally different at all. Roughly same sized building, Haunted House was animated FX dependent while Derren Brown is tech FX dependent. Both have expensive bespoke transits.

Both aimed to create surprise, suspense, etc. Both rely on lighting, ambiance, audio.

Both aimed to make a relaive big step up in attendance for their parks. Both were relative big budgets to the typical budgets of the time (GT obviously a lot more in terms of figures).

The only difference is Ghost Train uses live actors. Presumably they will get cut in a couple years just like Haunted House's animatronic maintenance got cut after 6ish years.

 

[themeparkfan]

Thats what I don't get. Merlin rush into spending millions building these new rides like N;ST, Galactica and DBGT but don't think of the long term staffing and reridability factor

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[Jb85]

@Rick I think you missing my point it's not nostalgia it's the little details that make the ride great. No effort is made anymore. It wouldn't take a lot to maintain some excellent features such as the now well discussed aroma

@electricBill you have save me a long lost and covered my points and thoughts entirely- thanks