Farce-track

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Scott, 5th Jun 2013.

  1. John

    John TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    3,888
    Location:
    Im Turm von Mystery Castle
    Favourite Ride:
    Steel Vengeance
    I believe the high energy cost is the main reason the rapids and flume open late, with their large pumps they are amongst the most power-hungry rides in the park.
     
  2. delta79

    delta79 TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    5,880
    Likes Received:
    5,074
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Favourite Ride:
    Nemesis, Air
    I am trying to find technical info on some of the rides, in an attempt to give an educated estimate of power usage. e.g are lift motors single or 3 phase?

    Also would this conversation on power use do with being moved into it own thread as it getting off topic for this thread?
     
  3. DRH

    DRH TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Almost definitely they would use 3 phase. 3 phase power is usually preferred for machines, motors and applications that use lots of power. This is a guess, but an educated one at that. Similar machinery operating in factory's use 3 phase, I cannot see a single reason as to why it would be different for a coaster. As essentially, a coaster is made up of the same industrial components.

    From an interview from a person from Consign AG (the company who do most of the electrical and control systems for B&M rides)

    Full interview below if your interested, although there is no indication on what phase they use, I seriously cannot see it being single phase.

    http://www.coasterforce.com/coasters/interviews/consign-ag-brian-ondrey

    If you search on the internet, it is no secret that theme parks consume colossal amounts of electricity. Alton Towers with it's ride selection will be no different!


    Apologies, this seems to have drifted slight off the topic a bit!
     
  4. Croftybaby

    Croftybaby TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    622
    Likes Received:
    1,924
    Location:
    Newport
    Favourite Ride:
    Nemesis
    People keep suggesting that Fastrack helps the park to pay the bills and maintain rides etc. This isn't the case as far as I can see.
    The park will get a budget per year regardless of how many fast passes they sell. If they sell more then is simply means Merlin get more cash.

    Can anyone confirm that the money from fastrack for the park to keep?
     
  5. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

    Messages:
    5,404
    Likes Received:
    5,300
    No but budgets are based on projected income, so if you don't meet your target the budget next year decreases.


    (yes its stupid but that's business.... and people wonder about the recession)
     
  6. ChocolateStarfish

    ChocolateStarfish TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    0
    500kw motor? That's something like 650hp and nearly the size of a small car, I don't think a lift hill needs anything like that.

    15Kw is normally the largest used on lift hills, the pumps on the rapids are bigger but not buy much.
    As for a "drive" I assume you mean a frequency converter which is actually used to control the speed/acceleration etc. nothing to do with power.
    The pumps have a soft start on them to build up revolutions.
     
  7. smudge

    smudge TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    215
    Favourite Ride:
    Nemesis
    I think 500kw would be rather excessive too, a Prius is only 50kw and that propels a 1.5tonne car to 80mph.

    15kw sounds so small, but with the correct gearing could produce enough power to lift up the shuttles maybe. I still feel 100kw to be a realistic figure. Not to mention a 500kw motor would be huge, it would be prominently in view for us. The kicker motors are probably 8kw and they are noticeable.

    I don't personally believe that fastracks fund the day to day running of he park. They are pure profit. If the park needed the money generated by fastracks got things such as power, the park is in financial ruin!

    The plant who's supply chain I control use a substantial amount more power that AT by guess. And the elec bill is £200k (give-or-take) PCM. This is predominantly because of the energy required to HEAT, but also motors/drives. AT don't have heat to worry about for starters.

    The fact that fastracks alone can generate 75k a day just shows that we are thinking small when we are worrying about the power. Maybe £1m a year at a real stretch.

    Insurance, investment, staffing, marketing, and premises; just think how much that all costs.

    The smiler - 18m, advertising 5m, staff 5m, security 5m, upkeep 5m (replacing fences, cleaning etc) are just under-exaggerated guesses on the scale of the operation.

    Maybe I can find the turnover figures somewhere.
     
  8. Benzin

    Benzin TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    3,287
    Likes Received:
    3,928
    Location:
    London
    I would suggest that 5m is an over-exaggeration in regards to upkeep...

    More like 5p...
     
  9. Scott

    Scott Former TS Team Member

    Messages:
    3,332
    Likes Received:
    942
    Location:
    Norwich
    Favourite Ride:
    Nemesis
    You'll struggle to find financial figures any more smudge. All the parks have been merged into one operating company and (as far as I am aware) they no longer have to publish their results.
     
  10. Croftybaby

    Croftybaby TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    622
    Likes Received:
    1,924
    Location:
    Newport
    Favourite Ride:
    Nemesis
    Wheres this figure of £75,000 per day in fasttrack income come from? I find it very hard to believe the park make anywhere near that amount. To make that they would have to sell nearly 7000 of the £12 packages meaning that probably 1 in 2 visitors would have purchased a fastrack on a busy day.

    The sums don't add up, unless it's £75k for Merlin as a whole? :/
     
  11. smudge

    smudge TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    215
    Favourite Ride:
    Nemesis
    I think the above sounds reasonable.
     
  12. John

    John TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    3,888
    Location:
    Im Turm von Mystery Castle
    Favourite Ride:
    Steel Vengeance
    As above, the £75k figure was mine, using the prices of various tickets and some rough guesses of how many they sell per hour of each ticket.

    Clearly it's not going to be anywhere near £75k most of the time, I'm talking about a peak day when there's over 20000 people in the park and they're close to selling out most of the fastrack allocation.

    I would be very interested to know the exact daily/hourly cap of each type of ticket to get a more accurate figure of how much they're potentially making.
     
  13. DRH

    DRH TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    You need to remember, as you increase a incline, the power needed increases exponentially almost. The main factor that is needed here is torque. Lots of torque is needed to get those heavy cars up a lift hill, minus the power that is needed to actually move the few tonnes of lift hill chain. The powerful motors rotational movement is reduced in a reduction gearbox which in turn produces torque and lots of it. The only way to produce lots of torque is to have a powerful motor. You cannot really compare a Prius to a piece of industrial machinery, it probably does go 80mph on that motor, but it has no extra torque than what is needed to pull itself, and those stats will be given from the car travelling on a flat piece of test track. Cant really compare.

    Plus big machines like this are over engineered in the fact that they do not just produce the components to 'just' be able to do what they need to do. They produce them more powerful and more stronger than ever will be needed. This provides a good degree of extra safety and reliability. Over engineering is used in pretty much every engineering project for these reasons.
     
  14. BigAl

    BigAl TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    2,957
    Likes Received:
    240
    Location:
    South East Cheshire
    Favourite Ride:
    Forbidden Journey
  15. Tim

    Tim TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    2,377
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    Location:
    Cambridge
    Favourite Ride:
    Air / Blue Fire
    I know this is off topic because it concerns Thorpe Park and not Alton but I have just witnessed the most horrendous miss-selling of Fastrack.

    At the entrance to Rumba Rapids there was someone selling Fastrack advising guests that the queue was an hour long. Behind them was a board reading 25 minutes. When questioned they claimed it had not been updated. I immediately knew they were lying so headed up the bridge to see the actual queue which was 10 minutes at most. While queuing several other guests coming off the ride asked us how long we'd been waiting to which we told them and heard they had been informed it was a 75 minute queue.

    Words failed me.
     
  16. Jonathan

    Jonathan TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    3,696
    Location:
    Congleton
    Favourite Ride:
    Helix <3
    That's just...I can't find the words either, Tim.
     
  17. Ted

    Ted TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    3,446
    Likes Received:
    2,042
    Location:
    London
    Favourite Ride:
    Taron
    So the Thorpe upsellers thought it was an hour, the board said 25 mins, the queue looked 10 mins, and guests coming off the ride claiming they thought it was 75?

    Words fail me...
     
  18. Tim

    Tim TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    2,377
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    Location:
    Cambridge
    Favourite Ride:
    Air / Blue Fire
    Just edited it for you...

    Fortunately the person selling the Fastrack had gone by the time I got off the ride. If they hadn't I would have found the first staff member with a radio and reported it over park communications. Say what you want about Merlin but I know that if operations where aware of this they would not have been happy.

    As it is I might still report it when I get chance (away for the next week, this was only a quick trip before setting off).
     
  19. thefatone

    thefatone TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    88
    The only way to solve that practice is by reporting it to Guest Services.. by stating that they said it was an hour when the queue board said 25mins but you queued 10. That'd raise the issue.
     
  20. Lottie.

    Lottie. TowersStreet Member

    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    70
    Location:
    Somewhere along the A3.
    Favourite Ride:
    Zadra, Energylandia
    That is appalling!

    Wonderful work Merlin ::)
     

Share This Page