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First SW to be Removed?

I think the key thing about the removal of a ride is how easy it would be to build something else it it’s place.

for this reason, I think Oblivion is safe, as is Nemesis (I know it’s getting retracked - but the guys at the top must have thought about scrapping it and replacing it)

thirteen - well I think that will stay - you can’t really build anything else going into the woods there.

so that leaves smiler wicker man and Air (please it’s not Galactica !!!)

The Smiler is an amazing ride but has piss poor build quality. But it’s popular - and can easily be accessed to replace parts.

wickerman - well it’s still fairly new so it ain’t going anywhere


Which leaves Air. It’s site is fairly easy to revamp / build something else on. It’s popularity is waning. It’s maintenance is a nightmare

mark my word, it’ll be the first to go….
 
Definitely not Nemesis as it is undergoing a retrack.
Definitely not Th13TEEN, The Smiler and Wicker Man as they are too new.
Oblivion is quite old but it is iconic and has that massive hole which took up 50 percent of the budget, so I don't think so.
This leaves Galactica, which is fairly old, and in my opinion is not iconic. It, along with the car park nearby, could be used for a future attraction.
 
zeock said:
Definitely not Nemesis as it is undergoing a retrack.
Definitely not Th13TEEN, The Smiler and Wicker Man as they are too new.
Oblivion is quite old but it is iconic and has that massive hole which took up 50 percent of the budget, so I don't think so.
This leaves Galactica, which is fairly old, and in my opinion is not iconic. It, along with the car park nearby, could be used for a future attraction.
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Air used to be crazy iconic when it was still air, just as Iconic as Oblivion almost, but when it became Galactica, I think that's when it's started to lose its popularity because of the VR gimmick and poor retheme. It was popular in it's first year in 2016, but after that, it went downhill really quick. It felt cheap and slapped on, all of the Galactica stuff. I think airs branding used to sell really well in the old Air Shop, now the Roller Coaster restaurant, so that could also be a reason why it's the least popular one nowadays. Galacticas branding is nothing bad, but it's nothing speciale Air had a very unique style to it. It was bold and easy to recognise.

I also think another reason Galactica is very unpopular nowadays is the Theme. A space port in Forbidden Valley? Where's the connection to it being 'forbidden'. Nemesis and Air was the ying yang of the area. Nemesis was presented as the uncontrollable force of the area, while air was the calm, heroic force of unknown flight. A space port doesn't really fit that 'hero' or 'unknown energy or force at work' catalogue really.

The actual ride itself is still relatively popular, but definitely the least popular of the Secret Weapons.
 
Trooper Looper said:
Air used to be crazy iconic when it was still air, just as Iconic as Oblivion almost, but when it became Galactica, I think that's when it's started to lose its popularity because of the VR gimmick and poor retheme. It was popular in it's first year in 2016, but after that, it went downhill really quick. It felt cheap and slapped on, all of the Galactica stuff. I think airs branding used to sell really well in the old Air Shop, now the Roller Coaster restaurant, so that could also be a reason why it's the least popular one nowadays. Galacticas branding is nothing bad, but it's nothing speciale Air had a very unique style to it. It was bold and easy to recognise.

I also think another reason Galactica is very unpopular nowadays is the Theme. A space port in Forbidden Valley? Where's the connection to it being 'forbidden'. Nemesis and Air was the ying yang of the area. Nemesis was presented as the uncontrollable force of the area, while air was the calm, heroic force of unknown flight. A space port doesn't really fit that 'hero' or 'unknown energy or force at work' catalogue really.
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One does have to ask, though; if Air was iconic, would they ever have rethemed it to Galactica in the first place?
 
Trooper Looper said:
Two words. Smiler. Accident.
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Galactica was planned long before the Smiler accident. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the park said they'd been working on it for 2 years.

My point was more; if Air was a truly iconic ride, would Alton Towers have done the Galactica retheme in the first place? The whole object of rethemes like Galactica is to breathe new life into a ride that isn't overly popular, so surely Merlin spending money on retheming the ride would suggest that Air was a ride that needed enhancement to make it more popular, in their view? I'd suggest that they wouldn't have given Nemesis a similar retheme at any cost.
 
Matt N said:
One does have to ask, though; if Air was iconic, would they ever have rethemed it to Galactica in the first place?
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It baffles me that with all the old concepts that were never used for Air due to budget reasons that they had a chance to bring that theme to life but alas they went for the stupid USP that Merlin wants and in the end, they got their comeuppance for it and they have no one to blame but themselves for such a badly planned and thought out system that was clearly never thought through properly for the long term. Having Air's theme restored could have been a fun 'Air-as-you've-never-seen-it-before!' PR stunt which any marketing team would have had some fun with it but hey ho. That's that.
 
Rick said:
Your ability to rewrite history is unparalleled.
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I'm not trying to though. I legitimately remember reading off somewhere years ago saying that Galactica was only thought up quickly because after the accident and when Guest numbers plummeted, the park was getting desperate to keep attendance up, so they chose their least themed ride for a quick overhaul because it'd be easy to quickly retheme. Again, I could be wrong here.
 
Trooper Looper said:
I'm not though. I legitimately remember reading off somewhere years ago saying that Galactica was only thought up quickly because after the accident and when Guest numbers plummeted, the park was getting desperate to keep attendance up, so they chose their least themed ride for a quick overhaul because it'd be easy to quickly retheme. Again, I could be wrong here.
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Can't remember that. Seems a lot is blamed on the Smilar accident. In reality VR was all the range then so Merlin jumped on the wagon
 
QTXAdsy said:
It baffles me that with all the old concepts that were never used for Air due to budget reasons that they had a chance to bring that theme to life but alas they went for the stupid USP that Merlin wants and in the end, they got their comeuppance for it and they have no one to blame but themselves for such a badly planned and thought out system that was clearly never thought through properly for the long term. Having Air's theme restored could have been a fun 'Air-as-you've-never-seen-it-before!' PR stunt which any marketing team would have had some fun with it but hey ho. That's that.
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The problem is that while many enthusiasts prefer that course of action, I'd wager that the idea would have very limited marketing potential outside of enthusiast circles.

A lot of people moan about Merlin's onus on marketability, but I think that there is something in it. Many enthusiasts might moan about Galactica, but if you showed "VR coaster" and "enhanced theming on a ride you've already been riding for 14 years", I'd wager that the former would get the masses flocking a lot more. Enhancement of an already-existing theme on an already-existing ride seems like it would be a hard sell to all bar a vast minority of the British public, whereas "VR coaster" sounds a lot cooler in the marketing and is likely to have a greater immediate appeal. Whether or not that appeal had longevity is up for debate, but the VR headsets did have appeal in the ride's first season, and I do remember them being quite popular.

The only way I think you could sell a huge theming enhancement to a ride like Air as a main attraction for the year is by employing an IP. Without a popular brand name, I think a theming enhancement of the type many lust for would be very hard to market.
Trooper Looper said:
I'm not trying to though. I legitimately remember reading off somewhere years ago saying that Galactica was only thought up quickly because after the accident and when Guest numbers plummeted, the park was getting desperate to keep attendance up, so they chose their least themed ride for a quick overhaul because it'd be easy to quickly retheme. Again, I could be wrong here.
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The park themselves said that the project had been planned for 2 years, and the LinkedIn page of Bradley Wynne, the creative lead within Merlin Magic Making at the time, suggested a similar timeline of about 2 years for both Galactica and the Rollercoaster Restaurant, if I'm remembering correctly. That LinkedIn page suggested that the first project to begin planning after the Smiler incident was Wicker Man, which was initially started in August 2015 and opened in March 2018.

You could be confused due to the planning application submission, which did occur towards the end of July 2015. However, the project had likely been meticulously planned for a good while before this application was submitted; certainly long before the Smiler crash ever occurred.
 
Jb85 said:
Really? Surely this was planned? Why wouldn't you rebrand and re theme.. It would have made no sense just to slap VR on and do nothing
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Sorry, maybe I didn't explain well. What I was suggesting that maybe they wanted to try VR somewhere in the park for a short term gimmick, but when the accident happened, they decided to add the VR to one of their signature attractions to try and get guests back in the park next year with a "Look, something big and new!" Feel to it.

I definitely think that the Roller Coaster Restaurant was planned though way before the accident ever occurred.
 
Matt N said:
Galactica was planned long before the Smiler accident. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the park said they'd been working on it for 2 years.

My point was more; if Air was a truly iconic ride, would Alton Towers have done the Galactica retheme in the first place? The whole object of rethemes like Galactica is to breathe new life into a ride that isn't overly popular, so surely Merlin spending money on retheming the ride would suggest that Air was a ride that needed enhancement to make it more popular, in their view? I'd suggest that they wouldn't have given Nemesis a similar retheme at any cost.
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Regarding that statement that they had been planning it for 2 years prior, I have to highly question that statement in which I do feel was more PR words said to media to show that they are always on the ball with planning in which I feel is not true. Given how so many plans along with the park's budget was cut following the Smiler crash, it was clearly a cheap stop-gap before they could bring along SW8 which I feel had the accident never happened would have come about in 2017 in which there would have been no need for Galactia and instead we would have still had Air to this day (though you could argue we do since the VR was removed) and 2016 would have been a medium investment for some other attraction on the park in which I have no clue what that might've been.

TBF to the guys at Towers, they were really in a tight position that I wouldn't envy them for in trying to find something that wouldn't cost a lot for a USP being breathed down their necks from Merlin and VR was there to be used at that time so it would seem like a good idea then but in hindsight it was a waste of everyone's time and effort.

Even if this all planned for Air way before the Smiler crash, did no one there ever considered the problems they might encounter in always cleaning VR sets which would slow things down and cause long queues that would likely happen making it more frustrating for all concern? It just seems so woefully planned on so many levels that nothing negative that might happen was ever considered.
 
Trooper Looper said:
Sorry, maybe I didn't explain well. What I was suggesting that maybe they wanted to try VR somewhere in the park for a short term gimmick, but when the accident happened, they decided to add the VR to one of their signature attractions to try and get guests back in the park next year with a "Look, something big and new!" Feel to it.

I definitely think that the Roller Coaster Restaurant was planned though way before the accident ever occurred.
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The park's own communications, as well as other rumours, suggested that the VR project was always planned to be an enhancement of Air, and that was in planning for 2 years.

The Rollercoaster Restaurant was indeed planned before the Smiler crash, with the planning application being submitted in April 2015.
 
It's an interesting one as to which will go first. I personally think it'll be Galactica but I don't think Th13teen will last much longer if it keeps having problems
 
QTXAdsy said:
Regarding that statement that they had been planning it for 2 years prior, I have to highly question that statement in which I do feel was more PR words said to media to show that they are always on the ball with planning in which I feel is not true. Given how so many plans along with the park's budget was cut following the Smiler crash, it was clearly a cheap stop-gap before they could bring along SW8 which I feel had the accident never happened would have come about in 2017 in which there would have been no need for Galactia and instead we would have still had Air to this day (though you could argue we do since the VR was removed) and 2016 would have been a medium investment for some other attraction on the park in which I have no clue what that might've been.

TBF to the guys at Towers, they were really in a tight position that I wouldn't envy them for in trying to find something that wouldn't cost a lot for a USP being breathed down their necks from Merlin and VR was there to be used at that time so it would seem like a good idea then but in hindsight it was a waste of everyone's time and effort.

Even if this all planned for Air way before the Smiler crash, did no one there ever considered the problems they might encounter in always cleaning VR sets which would slow things down and cause long queues that would likely happen making it more frustrating for all concern? It just seems so woefully planned on so many levels that nothing negative that might happen was ever considered.
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Bradley Wynne's LinkedIn page suggested a similar timeline; his page says that Galactica entered planning in November 2014 alongside the Rollercoaster Restaurant, which had a planning application submitted prior to the Smiler crash as mentioned above: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/bradleywynne (Scroll down to Projects)

As for whether they thought through the negatives of VR? They may not have done, but plenty of other parks didn't either, so I'd suggest that the potential of the tech seemed a lot higher in the early to mid 2010s. VR really took off in 2016, with Six Flags installing it en masse and even the likes of Europa Park adding it to a number of rides. It's not like Alton Towers were the only park to try VR, so I'd suggest that these issues either weren't considered during planning or the developers of the VR tech overpromised in terms of what it could offer.
 
Ethan said:
It's an interesting one as to which will go first. I personally think it'll be Galactica but I don't think Th13teen will last much longer if it keeps having problems
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I know Th13TEEN has issues in the rain and in cold weather but what other problems has it had? I don't want it to go as I feel that it, along with Wicker Man, are a good bridge between the family attractions and the thrilling attractions.
 
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