Football Discussion

[Secret Weapon]

The Sol Campbell disallowed goal in 98 really devastated 11yo me.

What made it worse was that the referee allowed play to continue whilst Campbell and co were still celebrating; Argentina may have scored if not for Darren Anderton

something I bet many an England fan did when Maradona did his hand of God.

What was the Scottish reaction to the Hand of God?

I'm assuming that most found it funny, but Scottish troops were also involved in the Falklands War (I think) and thus Maradona's actions were technically against the entire UK ?

Maradona is deceased and so I can no longer ask him, but I wonder if he would have done the same thing had the match been Argentina vs Scotland rather than Argentina vs England ?

Then again, many in the Americas use the UK / England / Britain terms interchangeably (similar to how many in Europe use the USA / America terms interchangeably), and so maybe Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland weren't on his radar

EDIT: Maradona would later become aware of regional differences, as I seem to recall that he told fans in Naples (South Italy) to support Argentina rather than Italy in their 1990 World Cup match, as North Italy looked down on them, or something

 

[John_P]

Euro 2008 was ace as you didn't have itv and bbc having talk from the England camp forced into every single broadcast.

With regards to them pulling the soaps I'd imagine the contracts insist that all games (except ones played simultaneously) must be on the broadcast companies Premier channel. Though for Euro 2008 ITV didn't screen the final live which is the only time I remember that happening.

 

[Secret Weapon]

I don't understand why BBC and ITV have a duopoly on international tournaments; why didn't Channel 4 or Channel 5 ever receive any of the matches?

The argument against Channel 5 in the early days may have been poor signal coverage, but this hasn't applied since the 2012 digital switchover, and has probably never applied to Channel 4

P.S. Random sidenote: many people predicted that Channel 4 would actually be ITV2 rather than a separate network (some TVs in the late 1970s actually had an ITV2 button in anticipation)

 

[QTXAdsy]

What made it worse was that the referee allowed play to continue whilst Campbell and co were still celebrating; Argentina may have scored if not for Darren Anderton

What was the Scottish reaction to the Hand of God?

I'm assuming that most found it funny, but Scottish troops were also involved in the Falklands War (I think) and thus Maradona's actions were technically against the entire UK ?

Maradona is deceased and so I can no longer ask him, but I wonder if he would have done the same thing had the match been Argentina vs Scotland rather than Argentina vs England ?

Then again, many in the Americas use the UK / England / Britain terms interchangeably (similar to how many in Europe use the USA / America terms interchangeably), and so maybe Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland weren't on his radar

EDIT: Maradona would later become aware of regional differences, as I seem to recall that he told fans in Naples (South Italy) to support Argentina rather than Italy in their 1990 World Cup match, as North Italy looked down on them, or something

Well, can't recall reaction straight after the game though certainly many of the Tartan Army have songs about that hand of God goal all because it was England that was beaten in, in all honesty, cruel fashion. Had this been any other team, I don't think it would have gone into the Scottish mindset.

Argentina do seem to view England in football as the UK as a whole and seem to give the other Home Nations a pass as a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend (fun fact during the war my High School history worked at RN Roysth getting HMS Plymouth and Yarmouth ready before they went to the Falklands).

Also during that World Cup prior to that England vs Argentina game, the Scots had bad blood with Uruguay in a really disgraceful game of football in which that team were animals and should have been kicked out in which was so bad that my Dad tells me that if Uruguay had beaten Argentina and faced England in that game then many Scots for once would cheer on England which really says a lot how many felt.

Speaking of which, the whole Anyone but England stuff has gotten IMO tiresome as it is true that fans here go to extreme lengths to buy flags/shirts of England's opponents whoever they face in a tournament even if most England fans are likely obviously to it and ironically they would support the other Home Nations when their playing in which they don't see the rivalry making it embarrassingly a one sided affair though ironically this can be said for how England feel about Germany as a rival when the latter care more about their rivalry with the Dutch more.

It is funny how many Scots I know talk about 1966 that England never stops talking about it though ironically as the years go on it does seem that Scots seem to bring it up more than the English just showing how really obsessed they are with England. Granted I can't say if the same is with the Welsh and Irish but probably the same. It has gotten nasty really going between banter to outright anglophobia as seen during when England got to the finals in 2021 and 2024, honestly the reaction where I was was sheer terror as if England winning was like incoming nuclear war with one paper in particular called the National (a very pro indy paper) praying for the Italian team on the front page that they were our only hope. Honestly embarrassing.

But that was nothing compared when the same paper did their front cover for the final in 2024 in which is perhaps one of the most offensive front covers ever of a Spanish player kicking some overweight, sunburnt England fan shaped like a football wanting Spain to win which caused an uproar that was very much like the Daily Mirror's infamous Auctung! Headlines prior to that game with England and Germany at Euro 96. Anyway regarding the National front cover, I still feel had Southgate stuck many copies of that front cover in the England dressing room then that would have given them motivation to win and thus the National would have been blamed in Scotland as the paper that ended many years of hurt for England and become a pariah paper as what the Sun is on Merseyside.

I have gone on more than I like but most will say that it's the media the Scots hate on how they say is bias to England either good or bad though I feel that is a recent thing when England were the sole Home Nation taking part and in fairness when the other Home Nations have taken part the press has given each a fair crack of the whip so it is a same that Wales or either Irish team will be there to add some balance to British coverage.

 

[Slugjc]

I don't understand why BBC and ITV have a duopoly on international tournaments; why didn't Channel 4 or Channel 5 ever receive any of the matches?

The argument against Channel 5 in the early days may have been poor signal coverage, but this hasn't applied since the 2012 digital switchover, and has probably never applied to Channel 4

P.S. Random sidenote: many people predicted that Channel 4 would actually be ITV2 rather than a separate network (some TVs in the late 1970s actually had an ITV2 button in anticipation)

The world and euro's have to be shown on free to air by law. As does Wimbledon, FA cup, Scottish cup, the grand national and the Olympics. These are know as group a events. Group b events, six nations, commonwealth games and the open can be behind a pay wall, must have highlights on free to air.

Nothing is stopping channel 4 and 5 from broadcasting it. They will need to pay to have the rights. Which, they can't afford.

Every so often 4 and 5 dip their toe Into sport. It's never for long.

 

[Secret Weapon]

my Dad tells me that if Uruguay had beaten Argentina and faced England in that game then many Scots for once would cheer on England which really says a lot how many felt.

That's a very detailed post! Regarding this specific point: the only comparable point I can remember regarding England is when, according to Frank Skinner, some English fans supported Argentina in 2010 because they wanted them to defeat Germany as "revenge" for knocking England out with the disallowed Frank Lampard goal.

I'm not sure how widespread it was, although - surprisingly - David Beckham of all people supported Argentina over Germany in 2014, even though Argentina had caused his infamous 1998 red card! (Maybe he was just playing the long game and simply wanted too woo Messi over to Inter Miami)

Speaking of which, the whole Anyone but England stuff has gotten IMO titiresome

Apparently, South America has something similar (Anybody But Argentina), but - surprisingly - many Brazilians actually supported Argentina in 2022 because they wanted to see a South American team beat a European team for the first time in 20 years.

Nothing is stopping channel 4 and 5 from broadcasting it. They will need to pay to have the rights. Which, they can't afford.

Every so often 4 and 5 dip their toe Into sport. It's never for long.

Maybe C4 and C5 will one day join BBC and ITV in in a joint 4-way bid (in case another free rival tries to outbid them), but - even if this happens - my guess is that BBC and ITV would still keep the best games for themselves, anyway.

 

[John_P]

You could potentially see it happening if the price of the rights increases more and more that say Channel 4 come into the agreement with BBC and ITV. They've done a great job with the paralympics coverage since 2012.

 

[Secret Weapon]

You could potentially see it happening if the price of the rights increases more and more that say Channel 4 come into the agreement with BBC and ITV. They've done a great job with the paralympics coverage since 2012.

My observation is that C4 and C5 never stood a chance back in the 1990s because everybody was much more stuck in their ways back then compared to today (this is also now being seen with the huge swings in elections as well).

If Coronation Street moved to Channel 4 in 1995, it would have drawn far fewer viewers than on ITV1 - even though it's the same show in the same timeslot, and both channels were available in the same number of homes.

However: I don't think the current TV audience is as rigid, and so I think ITV are slowly losing their grip (as seen with the declining TV ratings overall), and thus I could definitely see a time where ITV and C4 are on comparable financial footing.

 

[Skyscraper]

Try being Scotland...no tournament between 1998 and 2021. Going to be fun to see Scotland at a World Cup after nearly 30 years.

I don't envy your group stage kickoff times though... two at 11pm and one at 2am!

England have two at 9pm and one at 10pm, so not quite as bad but still pretty late.

 

[QTXAdsy]

Italy...bwhahaha.

On the other hand, Wales will be kicking themselves as they could have been Bosnia there.

 

[Secret Weapon]

FYI: Italy lost on penalties, and so have missed out on their third consecutive World Cup

They were 1-0 up early in the match, but suffered a red card before half-time

EDIT: @QTXAdsy beat me to it

 

[John_P]

Just Amazing, haven't played in a world cup since 2014. Last game they won was the 2006 final.

As much as England can be criticised for performances at tournaments they've constantly made light work of qualifying for the things in the recent era.

 

[Secret Weapon]

Italy struggle to qualify, but somehow inexplicably and miraculously do better in the tournament itself than expected when they do (e.g. winning the 2021 Euro, winning the 2006 World Cup, reaching the 2012 final, and causing Germany to miss several penalties in 2016 for the first time in decades)