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Gardaland

But surely for the point of the actual drop though you want to spend more time freefalling instead of half the drop being brakes? It also seems to take a lot longer to start the drop sequence.

And if you want to be really pickly, the huge supports for it which are in plain view, don't really help in terms of theming.

I hate elements in rollercoasters which ruin the pacing, Expedition Everest does this by taking far too long to move the switch tracks.
 
They should go with intamin, simply because of Busch trying to claim Zierer's drop on Verbolten as the worlds first free-fall drop rollercoaster...
 
Wilsy said:
But surely for the point of the actual drop though you want to spend more time freefalling instead of half the drop being brakes? It also seems to take a lot longer to start the drop sequence.

And if you want to be really pickly, the huge supports for it which are in plain view, don't really help in terms of theming.

I hate elements in rollercoasters which ruin the pacing, Expedition Everest does this by taking far too long to move the switch tracks.
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It's not actually that bad. The drop flows really well on Polar X-Plorer to the point that it makes the ride better. The sensation of free falling is far greater on the Zierer system, not to mention that even though it brakes sooner, it's more enjoyable.

The problem with Intamin's system is that it's not very scale-able. I mean, think about it. Th13teen's is 5 meters and has about a 6-7 meter pit to hold the mechanics of the thing. The bigger you go with the drop, the bigger the pit would need to be. With Zierer, that isn't the case. They just make the winches, tower and system taller. Creating a bigger drop.

Then there's the fact that the overall track and train package is far better. Intamin requires a light train, Zierer have no such problem. Which allows them to have a ride which paces better, can feature launches and can do inversions. Zierer have Intamin on this one. Hands down.
 
Madagascar Live? Gardaland?

Please.

That park is way above such rubbish. IP in 2012. IP in 2013.

Yet it's one of the top 5 (IIRC) most visited European parks.
 
As an actual ride system, Th13teen is astonishingly excellent. The length of time between the drop and the backwards launch is unbelievable.

Whereas Zierer's system looks like something you'd pick up in the rollercoaster bargain bin.
 
I've got no clue about Zierer's drop system, and whilst not exactly my favourite ride - the drop, reverse, and switchback from Intamin is incredibly slick and smooth.

They really did a great job on the ride.

Interesting theory though on Intamin, I have to say I find it strange that Gerst are building SW7 and have done from the off.
 
Why not Intamin?

I'm sure their safety record and Decade of Death might cause parks to think twice about using them... And of course a few other issues with some of their rides requiring a complete change in drop profile and new restraints a year after opening...

They can produce great rides, but they do have their problems...

Of course, a really important thing to realise is that park's choose based on their needs and past experiences... Perhaps only Gerstlauer could create such a ride as SW7 in the space available? Or the park wanted a multi-looping ride in what is quite a limited area... Such is the way of the industry...
 
Intamin may have a reputation for lack of safety and for bodging things, but they managed to design one hell of a slick system for the freefall drop. The whole element works so well that it seems criminal that it's not been used by anyone else. However, Zierer do seem to have picked up plaudits for their ride - with what is apparently quite a punchy drop and a system you can do more with.

There are positives and negatives for both, but I would go with Intamin every time. I just hate it when rides don't run smoothly - and a ride that is based around the indoor drop needs that. Zierer's system is too slow, too bulky and too awkward in my opinion.

Though I can't really judge, having never ridden a Zierer.
 
True enough Benzin, I don't recall any really tight twisty Intamins anywhere off hand. If they had to go in for that small space, those and B&M are your higher quality choices I suppose.

I would find it odd though if they didn't use Intamin for a freefall drop, SW6 (sorry still hate its name ha-ha!) is pretty faultless at what it does. Quite remarkable I feel by all accounts, given how complex a job designing that would have been.

A larger drop, combined to a larger quicker coaster has to the potential to be a insane bit of steel. Imagine all the most thrilling aspects of an Intamin combined with the lapbars/drop/reverse sections? I don't think anyone can match them for thrills right now.

EDIT: Agree with Scott though, I haven't ridden this Zierer so it's hard to compare, but the flow of the ride is near enough faultless from Intamin - I can't imagine how you can better that, and is it worth compromising on that, for a bit more force? Intamin did a phenomenal job - look at AIRs problems, still even now, I think that Intamin deserve massive credit for creating something so technically challening, that's a queue eater and reliable!

They don't sound like Intamin on reflection do they? Maybe B&M designed it really? (JOKE!)
 
The Zierer system must slow things down considerably when compared to the Intamin drop track. The Intamin train can speed in, stop, drop, move off, allow the track to reset for the next train in next to no time at all, and have time for any special effects such as the moments leading up to Th13teen's pre-drop. If you've got a lot of guests that will be going on the ride then Intamin are still the people I'd go to. Especially if you need to theme the drop, rather than just have it set in a dark room. What Zierer has done is still impressive for a much smaller company, mind.

:)
 
BigAl said:
The Zierer system must slow things down considerably when compared to the Intamin drop track. The Intamin train can speed in, stop, drop, move off, allow the track to reset for the next train in next to no time at all, and have time for any special effects such as the moments leading up to Th13teen's pre-drop. If you've got a lot of guests that will be going on the ride then Th13teen are still the people I'd go to. Especially if you need to theme the drop, rather than just have it set in a dark room. What Zierer has done is still impressive for a much smaller company, mind.
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It is impressive, and it's why I think we can expect a lot more great things from Zierer. Can I just add that the throughput on Polar X-Plorer was amazing. They weren't even rushing on the day I was there, ran 2 trains and it was seamless. They were dispatching trains in 25-30 seconds. The train then pulled straight into the station. No stacking. In fact, they were so good, that the second train would be riding up the lift, whilst the other is leaving the drop track. Sure, the drop in POVs looks tame, and seems to take a while to park, but when you're on the ride, it's not like that. I think it's certainly not a ride system that's easy to theme, but the coaster package for me at least, tops Intamin hands down.
 
It's a shame that Intamin and Zierer don't team up for these drop coasters. Intamin could create the drop and trains whilst Zierer create the rest of the coaster. :p
 
All the people I know who have ridden both say Zierer's is the better of the two.

But If I was looking to build a thematic experience rather than a thrilling experience I'd chose Intamin because the mechanism is hidden away making it almost impossible to predict what is about to happen, the hydraulic design allows for false drops and there's no delay in the experience.

So really it just comes down to the type of ride Gardaland are looking for. Bearing in mind this is only a rumour at the moment.
 
I'd imagine a big factor when deciding whether to go for an Intamin or a Zierer drop coaster is cost. I would think that Zierer's version is a fair bit cheaper. Not only is it less advanced, as has been pointed out earlier I think the Intamin version requires a lot of space underneath the drop. That therefore requires either a lot of expensive digging to create a pit al la Thirteen or a building twice as high as the drop which could be a problem for lots of parks. The Zierer version is probably a much better option for the majority of parks.

:)
 
Just in case people haven't seen it, here is TPR doing Verbolten.

Verbolten On-Ride Rider Cam & POV *REAL* Roller Coaster Video from Busch Gardens Williamsburg

You know, the drop looks more intense, watch the dudes face ;D - the theming into the tunnel is kool as well, but it does go on for a while too long I think!

Have to say, I think Intamins version looks slicker than that, and I reckon the backwards launch tunnel beats the scary intro tunnel on this one. The "normal" drop doesn't look that much more intense on Verbolten either.

I can imagine Verbolten edges it on "thrill" but for continuity and a natural flow, Intamin I reckon.

Still looks good though!
 
The trouble is that Zeirer's System is only a free fall for a second, then as shown on the video it just consists of brakes, couple that with a short drop, slow to engage free-fall element, ugly track section (with the supports/braces) and no pre-drop. I am still 100% sold on Intamin's offering.

The trouble is, that with Zeirer you will be 'held' so that you are in control, from brakes at the side, but with intamin, you are caught on a cushion of hydraulic goodness, giving you more time to free fall than slow down.
 
But then on the other hand the park has to deal with a hydraulic system (employing engineers with serious hydraulic experience become a need), and also build a gigantic pit to hold the system (which costs more money to dig said pit)... Both these issues are something the Zierer model doesn't have...

Both systems have the pros and cons... It's the park's decision which one they feel will fit into their park more...
 
cotda said:
The trouble is that Zeirer's System is only a free fall for a second, then as shown on the video it just consists of brakes...
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It does amuse me how this is highlighted repeatedly by everyone that hasn't ridden either Polar or Verbolten, regardless of the fact that those who have say that it's really not that bad :p

Trust me, although it undoubtedly brakes for slightly (very slightly) longer than the Intamin system, it absolutely does not feel like you're being robbed of more drop in favour of braking. Having ridden Polar Explorer, it's clear to me that the drop is really powerful, really punchy, and feels a great deal more exciting than Thirteen's.
 
Screamscape has explained why the Dolphin show has shut:
Park News - (1/19/13) If anyone was wondering why Gardaland suddenly closed their Dolphin show attraction, I’m told this has more to do with the overall approach to animal attractions from Gardaland’s owners, Merlin Entertainment. Merlin’s chain-wide approach to animals in their attractions is from a conservation only point of view, preferring to educate while entertaining the attraction guests, rather than having a show simply for entertainment’s sake. The choice to close the dolphin show was apparently something that Merlin had been planning for some time.
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Fair enough! :)
 
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