Hotels General Discussion

[Rob F]

Earlier up the thread @Kraken27 mentioned how he saw Roland Mack eating in the resort's restaurant. Maybe the senior Merlin management teams should start experiencing their product how their customers do too.

In IT we call it dog-fooding.

ultimately though the moment any company knows senior management may attend all hands drop to deck with extra cleaning and prep to make sure everything runs smoothly and to standard, which often actually gives a false sense of standards and service. The best thing todo is secret boss in-house, Varney in disguise

 

[venny]

Varney’s not stupid and he oversaw the strategy of perpetual cuts across the RTPs. He must know that this has effected the end product.

Rather than pushing constant cuts, the more difficult decision is having the confidence to invest in opex on the basis it will improve guest experience and over time result in better returns.

 

[Matt N]

Maybe the open letter would work, though? It certainly got a response and some changes last time, which is something!

If people feel very passionate about this, as well as other issues, maybe TowersStreet should club together to do a second open letter and tell Nick Varney about how the site feels?

 

[GaryH]

I really don’t think he would care. If he did the hotels would not be in the state they are in now. All he has to do is open the internet, go to Tripadvisor and glance over a few pages to see what people think. He is probably more interested watching the share prices.

 

[AT86]

Maybe the open letter would work, though? It certainly got a response and some changes last time, which is something!

I don’t really have an opinion on the idea of an open letter either way, however it is certainly worth noting that Merlin in 2011 and Merlin in 2021 are completely different beasts.

The company is significantly larger in number of attractions, numbers of employees and number of visitors worldwide. This means that the senior management (Nick Varney in this case) are more removed from day to day operations of the attractions. The likelihood of something like this even crossing his desk is much less than it was 10 years ago, let alone it actually being acted upon in any meaningful way.

 

[Inferno]

To be fair, let's have a look at Tripadvisor:

• Alton Towers Hotel is rated 4 ("Very good" )
  That's the same score as the Disneyland Paris hotel.
• The sheds are rated 4
  That's the same score as Endless Summer Resort at Universal Orlando.
• Enchanted village is also a 4
  That's the same score as Disneyland California Hotel and Grand Floridian in Orlando.
• Splash Landings is 3.5 ("Average/Very good" )
  So this is the lowest-scoring of their hotels, but it also isn't too bad a score really.
  It's the same score as Disney World's Dolphin Resort.

That's the sort of high-level stats these management types are interested in, so realistically until these start trending down for a while, complaints will be dealt with case by case.

I think the main issue here is that "we" unfairly compare Alton Towers to world class theme parks like Europa and even Universal and Disney.

Merlin is not, and does not want to be, world class like those other resorts. They are an operator of leisure attractions and small standalone regional theme parks that are mostly incorrectly labelled as resorts.

For the record, I agree that the hotels should be better, but I think the reality is, if you want to go to a world class resort, I think you should actually go to a world class resort and not a small regional theme park with low standards

 

[Steve74]

Maybe the open letter would work, though? It certainly got a response and some changes last time, which is something!

If people feel very passionate about this, as well as other issues, maybe TowersStreet should club together to do a second open letter and tell Nick Varney about how the site feels?

Exactly my original suggestion! If it worked first time round with the Fanta thing, there is no reason to think something won't happen this time round. I mean, what have we got to lose?

From what I can tell, Varney actually didn’t know that the sponsorship had been done, and didn’t know the extent to which it was affecting the experience down on the ground.

With Merlin being as big of a company as it is (if anything, it’s only grown bigger since 2011), is it possible that Nick Varney and the higher-ups have a very different idea about how things are down on the frontline compared to how they actually are?

We may be being a bit naive here in thinking he doesn't know what's happening but if he didn't know about the Fanta promotion, why would he know that staff appear to be poorly trained in ATH's bar? Or that the food at breakfast isn't always the best? I refer to Nick Varney here but of course it could be anyone in Merlin around his level of seniority.

 

[Skyscraper]

Maybe the open letter would work, though? It certainly got a response and some changes last time, which is something!

If people feel very passionate about this, as well as other issues, maybe TowersStreet should club together to do a second open letter and tell Nick Varney about how the site feels?

Could another option be arranging a meeting (either on video of in-person) between representatives of our site and Towers' Resort management? Might be a bit more effective than a letter.

 

[GaryH]

To be fair, let's have a look at Tripadvisor:

• Alton Towers Hotel is rated 4 ("Very good" )
  That's the same score as the Disneyland Paris hotel.
• The sheds are rated 4
  That's the same score as Endless Summer Resort at Universal Orlando.
• Enchanted village is also a 4
  That's the same score as Disneyland California Hotel and Grand Floridian in Orlando.
• Splash Landings is 3.5 ("Average/Very good" )
  So this is the lowest-scoring of their hotels, but it also isn't too bad a score really.
  It's the same score as Disney World's Dolphin Resort.

That's the sort of high-level stats these management types are interested in, so realistically until these start trending down for a while, complaints will be dealt with case by case.

I think the main issue here is that "we" unfairly compare Alton Towers to world class theme parks like Europa and even Universal and Disney.

Merlin is not, and does not want to be, world class like those other resorts. They are an operator of leisure attractions and small standalone regional theme parks that are mostly incorrectly labelled as resorts.

For the record, I agree that the hotels should be better, but I think the reality is, if you want to go to a world class resort, I think you should actually go to a world class resort and not a small regional theme park with low standards

those scores are based on years and years of reviews and include good reviews from years ago when things were much better, would would be interesting to see the overall score for the past year, the past 3 years, the past 5 years etc and see if it going up, down or the same. I would assume it’s going down based on the number of 1 star reviews which come up more often.

 

[pluk]

Maybe the open letter would work, though? It certainly got a response and some changes last time, which is something!

If people feel very passionate about this, as well as other issues, maybe TowersStreet should club together to do a second open letter and tell Nick Varney about how the site feels?

Peeling some vinyl off of some coaster supports and buildings is bit different to millions of pounds worth of improvements and a complete overall of operations which would be required at the hotels.

They know what they are offering, they are happy with the results it brings.

It worked once for a very specific issue which was a proper misstep in presentation that had been taken low down the Merlin food chain, but I find this letter writing business embarrassing. Like they care what we think.

 

[GaryH]

So I just had a quick count of scores going back to January 2020 only for ATH

% of people who rated it:

1 star - 16.67%
2 stars - 14.07%
3 stars - 20.37%
4 stars - 17.04%
5 stars - 31.85%

% of people who scored it

Bad to average (1-3 stars) - 51.1%
Very good to excellent (4-5 stars) - 48.9%


Scores dropped significantly during summer months when the hotel was busier. Main complaints are around standard of cleaning, noise and food quality. Parking comes up a lot where guests can’t find a parking space.

It would be interesting to repeat that for the other hotels, but also doing previous years. I would expect the total of 4-5 star reviews to be much higher in the past.

You could say that the majority of people are rating it as excellent… but that’s only a third of the guests, and when you are paying upwards of £400 a night and compare these scores to a a hotel charging the same amount per night you would expect at least 80% of guests rating it excellent.

 

[Steve74]

Peeling some vinyl off of some coaster supports and buildings is bit different to millions of pounds worth of improvements and a complete overall of operations which would be required at the hotels.

They know what they are offering, they are happy with the results it brings.

It worked once for a very specific issue which was a proper misstep in presentation that had been taken low down the Merlin food chain, but find this letter writing business embarrassing. Like they care what we think.

Well lets all give up then and keep forever whinging and complaining about the state of the resort!!

They may not care what we enthusiasts think or even take us seriously, but I still think some form of communication with Merlin be it a letter, in person or on Zoom is far better than nothing; and it may - just may - start the tiniest of alarm bells ringing at Merlin HQ that something isn't right further down the Merlin food chain (as you put it).

With respect, if a letter was written on behalf of the enthusiasts on here you wouldn't be obliged to sign it if you found it embarrassing.

 

[Rick]

I really don’t think he would care. If he did the hotels would not be in the state they are in now. All he has to do is open the internet, go to Tripadvisor and glance over a few pages to see what people think. He is probably more interested watching the share prices.

Share prices of what ?

 

[s_g_k]

I think ultimately, whilst the headline trip advisor star rating is 4 or above and occupancy is high, there’s no business case to improve the state of the hotels, no matter how much the hotel management kick off to senior management. As soon as the average star rating drops below 4, which most people see as a benchmark of quality, and when occupancy starts to suffer, this will be when we see change happen.
I used to work in retail management for a well known car hire company and whilst I can’t draw exact comparisons, it seems like they share a similar culture to Merlin. Area Managers were half on our side but as soon as you got to regional and National management, they really didn’t have a single clue what was going on on the front line and for everything we moaned to them about, they always had the same corporate answers. Senior Managers/Directors only concern themselves with the headline stats, and for the time being at least, they’re still looking good, but they appear to now be on a downward trend.

 

[Alsty]

Agreed. From a business perspective, people keep coming and spending money. Most of the people in this thread (me included) who whine about the standards being low will still return because there's little alternative. There's therefore no incentive for Merlin to change anything, unless the culture of the business changes and they want to go beyond and impress their customers rather than just treat them solely as a revenue stream. I don't have much faith in Merlin's culture changing any time soon.

 

[pluk]

Well lets all give up then and keep forever whinging and complaining about the state of the resort!!

We'll continue to celebrate the great things and moan bout the bad things, as it's always been and always will be...

They may not care what we enthusiasts think or even take us seriously, but I still think some form of communication with Merlin be it a letter, in person or on Zoom is far better than nothing; and it may - just may - start the tiniest of alarm bells ringing at Merlin HQ that something isn't right further down the Merlin food chain (as you put it).

This isn't a small, local misstep. This is the delivery of what has been their key area of interest and growth as a company for the last few years and is true to various extents across the whole estate. They've been much more interested in beds than rides and attractions for a long time. They know exactly they are budgeting for and what they are delivering, and they think it is acceptable as the bottom line agrees with them. They don't need telling.

With respect, if a letter was written on behalf of the enthusiasts on here you wouldn't be obliged to sign it if you found it embarrassing.

Not sure why this needs saying, not trying to stop anyone doing owt, however silly I think it is.

 

[James]

Some things are an easy fix, no? Breakfast, change suppliers/better quality ingredients. Entertainment, the theme park has always been on top form so I see no reason why hotel entertainment cannot change by next season. Bar staff and staff training, bit of a more difficult one although again something that could be looked at between now and next season.

I don't think these particular issues are beyond the control of Towers management and would need any Merlin management intervention.

As many have said however, they make money with the service they currently provide so from Towers perspective why change when you are getting decent custom and revenue. Look at the Christmas event (hotel stays), nearly sold out. They must be doing something right!

 

[s_g_k]

Some things are an easy fix, no? Breakfast, change suppliers/better quality ingredients. Entertainment, the theme park has always been on top form so I see no reason why hotel entertainment cannot change by next season. Bar staff and staff training, bit of a more difficult one although again something that could be looked at between now and next season.

I don't think these particular issues are beyond the control of Towers management and would need any Merlin management intervention.

As many have said however, they make money with the service they currently provide so from Towers perspective why change when you are getting decent custom and revenue. Look at the Christmas event (hotel stays), nearly sold out. They must be doing something right!

Even if AT management wanted to change suppliers, they’d have to get approval from Merlin to set them up as a supplier for invoicing, which needs all sort of credit checks done and various authorisation - it’s not as simple as ringing up a different supplier and paying them out of the till. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a deal with 1 supplier for the U.K.

 

[AstroDan]

I believe the remaining floors of Splash Landings bedrooms will be fully refurbished this winter at a fairly hefty cost.

Of course, it doesn't help that the already refurbished Splash rooms on the ground floor have some evidence of water damage/mould nor does it assist with the now INCREDIBLY dated standard rooms in ATH.

Still... small steps.

Hopefully recruitment for 2022 will ensure a full compliment of staff, too.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[jon81uk]

I don’t actually think the original standard ATH rooms have aged that badly. Certainty the Sir Alegenon artwork on the wall is fine, better than the vinyls in newer rooms. Overall there is a nice timeless feeling to those original rooms.

There are a lot higher priority fixes than the room decor.