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HS2

Matt N said:
With regard to the Conservatives supposedly selling off the HS2 land at reduced prices before the next election specifically so that Labour can’t build it; surely they wouldn’t strategise moves like that just to stitch up a future Labour government?
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That sounds like exactly the sort of thing they absolutely would do!
 
I mean they recently extended Avantis contract on the west coast mainline who've been an absolute disaster. Done for no reason other to stop a potential labour government bringing the line into public ownership when the original franchise ended.
 
Matt N said:
With regard to the Conservatives supposedly selling off the HS2 land at reduced prices before the next election specifically so that Labour can’t build it; surely they wouldn’t strategise moves like that just to stitch up a future Labour government?
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I feel so bad that one day Matt you will have the world's fatalism hit you like a truck.

Wouldn't surprise me if the current position is to plan to be the opposition after the next election, leaving a huge mess that Labour struggle to clean up, meaning people flock back because short memories and culture wars are fair easier to set up than actually doing the job elected to do.
 
Maybe I am being overly naive, but I just think that strategising every decision your government make when in power around the impact it will have on the opposition seems like a very cynical way to operate.

If this was during an active election campaign, I could understand that school of thought, because at that point, the opposition are a very active threat. But the next election is still a year away. At this stage, the notion that the Conservatives make every decision they make with the impact on Labour and the party’s electoral success in mind rather than the impact on the British public, whom they were elected to serve the best interests of, seems like an odd one when we’re still a fair way from being on an election footing.

On a separate note, I’m a little stumped as to why HS2 is/was considered an “England and Wales” project. To my knowledge, it was never concretely planned to come to Wales at all, and it was always said that Cardiff was one of the cities that would be negatively impacted by HS2 alongside Bristol. Was HS2 planned to come to South Wales/the South West at one point, as Wales’ inclusion in the HS2 funding seems a little bizarre and inexplicable otherwise?
 
Any land that was compulsorily purchased for the reason of building HS2, that will no longer be needed, should first be offered to the former land-owner at the same price that it was purchased from them (+ cash for any maintenance needed to bring it back up to scratch). If the original owner doesn't want it then any other interested parties should only be allowed to buy it at the same price too. No change of use allowed for the land (agricultural into residential for example) for at least 60 years either, guaranteed. Anything other than that and it is open to corruption, and at least opens themselves up to accusations of it. I could only imagine how angry a former landowner would be to see their former land sold for cheaper than they had to sell it for, to then go to some crony on the cheap who then magically gets residential planning permission and builds a load of houses on it for major profit. Surely these slime-balls wouldn't even stoop to that kind of obvious low and attract that kind of anger? 🫢
 
Slugjc said:
Has anything been said about job security for those already working on the project in the north?

We have had some very minor tree felling along the proposed root here In east Leeds. Alot compulsory purchased orders have already been completed. Wonder what will happen with that now. Can't remember the exact location now but a new housing estate was earmarked for knocking down, alot of families lost thousands because they brand new home was due to be demolished for a railway.
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Our staff are mainly concentrated in the connection to the legacy line. The bits not surveyed for said legacy line will be where the staff from further up will be moved to I imagine. Not sure about staff not under our organisation. We'll also be in a position to bid for some other rail work that's in the process of being tendered.
 
#InactionMan. They know they're going out at the next election so given up the illusion of even trying
 
Greed is enduring, Thatcher gave us that clear instruction.
jon81uk said:
The quicker we can vote out this incompetent group of nitwits the better.
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The Tories have been in power through the last five Prime Ministers and four general elections...we have had the opportunity more than once.
Jb85 said:
If what @Thameslink Rail has posted is factual, then I feel this is the beginning of the end for the party.
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If only, they will be back in power again within a decade sadly...

Back on topic, does anyone think that Labour will see this through when they get in power?
From what I've seen and heard, I think it is a dead duck.
 
rob666 said:
Back on topic, does anyone think that Labour will see this through when they get in power?
From what I've seen and heard, I think it is a dead duck.
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Saw Angela Rayner on Tele this morning (weirdly with a dalek under some sheets in the background.) Labour expect all the land to be sold. As I think all of us do.
 
Tom said:
A lot more has been built than I actually realised, not sure how easy it will be to pull the plug now, but still half expect it.
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The work (at least our lot have done) is in such a way it will be used regardless, for either the link to the WCML or if Labour reinstate the actual leg to Manc.
 
Matt N said:
Maybe I am being overly naive, but I just think that strategising every decision your government make when in power around the impact it will have on the opposition seems like a very cynical way to operate.

If this was during an active election campaign, I could understand that school of thought, because at that point, the opposition are a very active threat. But the next election is still a year away. At this stage, the notion that the Conservatives make every decision they make with the impact on Labour and the party’s electoral success in mind rather than the impact on the British public, whom they were elected to serve the best interests of, seems like an odd one when we’re still a fair way from being on an election footing.

On a separate note, I’m a little stumped as to why HS2 is/was considered an “England and Wales” project. To my knowledge, it was never concretely planned to come to Wales at all, and it was always said that Cardiff was one of the cities that would be negatively impacted by HS2 alongside Bristol. Was HS2 planned to come to South Wales/the South West at one point, as Wales’ inclusion in the HS2 funding seems a little bizarre and inexplicable otherwise?
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No one is saying that every move they make is to have an impact on the opposition. In fact, this narrative often clouds the good work that some MP's of all colours do every single day.

But we are effectively in an election campaign. These are likely to be the last conferences before the next election. There's nothing to suggest the GE is definitely a whole year away, it could be sooner. All the evidence is right in front of our noses that the Tories are currently engaging in a cynical Trumpian style pre-election campaign.

Scrapping "Labours meat tax". That was a lie.

Preventing councils from forcing us all to have 7 bins. That was a lie.

The 15 minute city conspiracy theory. Another lie.

A Rivers of Blood style speech, warning us of a "hurricane" of foreigners waiting in the wings ready to "invade" us any day now. Another lie.

"A man is a man, a woman is a woman". People are more concerned about paying the bills, so an attempt to distract people into fearing something they don't currently give a damn about.

"Stand up and fight. Stand up and fight!". What fight? Who are we fighting? What are we fighting for? Mordaunt never actually told us, she just wants us to fight for some reason.

So when you consider all this, a scorched earth policy on HS2 to back their political opponents into a policy corner suddenly seems very plausible indeed wouldn't you say?

On your last point, I remember seeing something on BBC Parliament in the late 2000's when both the original HS2 and the Great Western Mainline electrication were being discussed. They were discussing the GW line being electrified to Swansea (technically the South Wales Mainline but same project) and Plymouth and the potential to build an additional High Speed line that either went from Cardiff Central to West Midlands Parkway (a kind of "HS3") or electrifying and upgrading the Cross Country route, including extra tracks on the Filton Bank between Bristol Parkway and Birmingham to plug it all in to HS2. This would have given a "X" style network of either High Speed or at least fully electric higher capacity rail between London, Bristol, Cardiff, Plymouth, Birmingham, Leeds and Manchester. There were similar (separate) discussions about grand extensions to the North East and Scotland as well. But the conclusion was to just get the GWML electrication and HS2 done first so nothing became concrete policy.

Of course, we now know that the poorly managed Great Western Mainline upgrades were a warm up act for the way the whole HS2 project would unfold.
 
As I say, I consider it less likely now I know what has actually be done/started. However, you can't rule it out as basically no one wants it among the public, and it carves many Conservative constituencies up like a roast. A party coming out for scrapping the whole thing during an election campaign could return quite a few votes.
 
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