IMAscore...overhyped?

[Poisson]

Because of the hype they have generated within the ride score niche? As @TheMan said on page 1, if someone does a perceived good job and markets themselves well, then others will use them. Frankly though, I can't understand why anyone would have hired them after the abomination that is The Smiler soundtrack.

Because that's your opinion. If everyone had a similar one, then they wouldn't have been used. But they don't.

Think of it this way, after the abomination of Black Veil Brides' second album, why are they still signed and have farted out a new album? It is because whilst I hate the band, someone, somewhere likes them, as do a load of others.

 

[Benzin]

Because of the hype they have generated within the ride score niche? As @TheMan said on page 1, if someone does a perceived good job and markets themselves well, then others will use them. Frankly though, I can't understand why anyone would have hired them after the abomination that is The Smiler soundtrack.

This is where it comes down to though, opinions...

Smiler's in the context of the ride, works immensely well, and has a reasonable level of fans of the music I'm willing to bet... And then you have to wonder how much of Smiler's soundtrack was down to Towers' request for a certain style to it (in contrast to say Liseberg for Helix, where they were allowed pretty much free reign on the soundtrack [various interviews])...

Indeed, one of the biggest strengths of IMAScore's stuff is that in the context of the park/ride/area, the soundtracks slot into place... And in some of their cases also work reasonable well as a stand-alone track, something few ride soundtracks are able to do (Blue Fire's area music is a good example of requiring some context of the actual attraction to become enjoyable without it)...

I can't understand why anyone would not want to hire IMAScore after Chiapas' soundtrack...

 

[Rob]

There are exceptions to the rule of course. Knott's Berry have a Zamperla, as do numerous Six Flags parks. That wasn't really my point though. I accept that IMAScore produce soundtracks that somewhat suit the areas/rides they are composing for, what I'm saying is that they just aren't brilliant at it. In the same way with Zamperla.

In your opinion. There are many that think they are pretty good at it. Can you not accept this or is your definition of "good/bad" music what should be accepted as the norm? And those IMAscore examples I gave are more the rule than the expection. I'd love to see a longer list of "smaller parks with no money" who have used them.

Because of the hype they have generated within the ride score niche? As @TheMan said on page 1, if someone does a perceived good job and markets themselves well, then others will use them. Frankly though, I can't understand why anyone would have hired them after the abomination that is The Smiler soundtrack.

Once again, why is it only a percieved good job? The parks that have used them say they have done a good job. Toverland have said they will use them again in the future. Liseberg are using them again. Phantasialand have used them more than once. I don't think The Smiler soundtrack is an abomination (if you think it is then ok that's your opinion), it fits the style and theme of the ride really well (I accept it's not a brilliant piece of music but it was never trying to be), but by your logic; I cannot understand why anyone would have hired Intamin again after the abomination that is Furious Baco. Or GCI after what is the abomination of Gwazi.

 

[Poisson]

Also, an individual dislike of one piece of audio is not indicating of a bad set of musicians.

Another example: I like Stigmata from The Land Of Rape And Honey by Ministry, but am not a fan of the rest of the album. Yet at the moment I have Psalm 69 on by The same band, which is one of my favourite albums. One commission or one album does not make or break everything.

 

[Alastair]

Yes it is all my own opinion, yet in regards to The Smiler at least, it's one that I know is shared by many others. It just seems to me that there is a lack of competition to IMA. I know that they market themselves well, and that there are other composers that parks have of course previously used, yet I get the impression that parks don't know what they are missing out on in terms of quality and depth of music. Of course if IMAScore do work for a lot of different parks off the back of their previous work, then parks and indeed fans of parks will become conditioned to believe that their style of music is perfect, and they are exactly what is needed for a theme park.
Things are the same in the film music, where now every one believes a great film soundtrack is one with huge percussion and ostinatic strings; thanks to Hans Zimmer's TDK trilogy, and his overarching influence and popularity within the industry. Sometimes other promising composers are shunted aside to make way for IMAScore/Zimmer, (prime example being The Simpsons Movie where Alf Clausen who'd composed all the music to the TV series for decades was discarded in favour of Zimmer).

The point seems to be looping around here, but if ride scores are becoming so prominent for certain parks now, then I'd like to see a little variation in terms of who they hire to compose them.

 

[TheMan]

Regardless of individual musical opinions, @Alastair very astutely quoted my assertion that when your profile is raised, regardless of your comparative skill levels, you will find yourself with more business. It's marketing 101 that.

I am not so far to the side of Alastair's views on the enjoyment of the pieces. I like the Smiler tune at the moment. It's a few years time that I think it's going to be horrendously dated and irritating.

I have to back the lad up though, musically they are on the side of populist, I am not really a fan of Helix's music as a whole (from a staunch electronica fan incidentally) though many disagree and I hope to experience it in the context of the ride before I would judge it properly.

One thing I will say about The Smiler music. It is intrusive. It doesn't set a backdrop to the ride, it intrudes upon it.

I like IMAScore, they're talented, but they are definitely over rated, this topic was started due to assertion it could almost make a bland ride good and their inclusion was worth popping champagne over.

I can't agree with that, the discussion has somewhat developed and deepened and become laced with opinions, I am not so sure I could produce something as good as IMAScore, but again, as someone who has been involved in Movie/Media/Advert sync A&R I do feel adequately qualified to back Alastair on his original point.

(On a serious note, this included Mercedes Benz, Nasa, and being associated to one of the world's biggest publishing companies. There is some SERIOUSLY good talent out there I'd like to see given opportunity, that's why I back Alastair on this)

 

[Rob]

Regardless of individual musical opinions, I like IMAScore, they're talented, but they are definitely over rated, this topic was started due to assertion it could almost make a bland ride good and their inclusion was worth popping champagne over.

I can't agree with that, the discussion has somewhat developed and deepened and become laced with opinions, I am not so sure I could produce something as good as IMAScore, but again, as someone who has been involved in Movie/Media/Advert sync A&R I do feel adequately qualified to back Alastair on his original point.

Why should it matter how involved anyone has been in related fields? Or how music musical expertise a person has? These peices of music are made for the standard theme park guest. They are not made for people who walk round theme parks carrying out an analysis of all the music they hear. In a theme park, area or ride music is used to enchance the feeling of the area or ride. The music is not the centrepiece. It is not the main product. I don't know if anyone has actually said that the inclusion of IMAscore music can make a bland ride good, and I would not agree with that anyway.

It is a different case when you are producing a theme park soundtrack like the Europa Park Original Soundtrack. This is a selection of music that is used almost to promote the park, it is the park's audio image. And the same for music created for a musical such as in Spook Me!

I have no doubts that there are other companies or composers out there who can produce great theme park music. And I'm sure they are getting a chance, they just obviously do not stand out as much as they do not market themselves in the ways that IMAscore or EP and Hendrik Schwarzer do. But is there really any merit in putting down IMAscore just because you want others to get a chance? It's not their fault that they keep getting hired (well it is, because parks are very happy with what they do).

Here' another analogy if you want to think like that: thrill coasters. Intamin have always been known for producing high thrill coasters, many of which are rated as some of the best in the world. However in the last couple of years Mack have come along with their new Megacoasters, and park's that in the past may have gone to Intamin have gone to Mack. Mack's are popping up all over the place now with several clones. Let's say I'm not a fan of these Mack coasters (not true at all by the way), I do not like that parks keep getting them. I want parks to realise that it's not just Mack that can do good thrill coasters (even though there are still other companies being used). Mack are over-hyped, people only like them because of how engaging they are as a company and other parks are buying into this.

Of course that example is not the same as in this topic but it's close enough for my point.

This post isn't all aimed at you TheMan, I just wanted to quote a couple of points in your post!

 

[TheMan]

Just to add I can completely understand why people find their music entertaining, why parks buy it, and I am most definitely not beating their creations over the head with a crap stick

I also would never wish a creative company anything other than success, my concern is it becomes a bit too easy for parks to go that route when there's other talented producers and composers out there. And whilst marketing IS a key component to a musicians arsenal nowadays, not everyone is good at it, or indeed has the time or resource to fully take advantage of it. That's the reason I hope they don't saturate the market. They have their place, they've earned it, and full credit to them for it! I want to make that clear. But if we're not careful, their music will end up on rides it really shouldn't do and we could miss out on some masterful creations by little known talent.

It's the same in any industry, a monopoly is never a good thing for creativity or the industry. We benefit now from having more coaster developers pushing boundaries once more, S&S in Florida, Gerstlauer, even the crazy in house one in USA. Not long ago, we were bemoaning how the industry had stagnated with B&Ms going in almost cut and copy coasters everywhere, does that mean they're not probably the definitive word on quality manufacturing? No, of course not. But parks began to think "Oh, I must have a B&M to be a proper park". To a degree, that's actually not far off, every park benefits from one because they're brilliantly engineered - but it doesn't make them the best, or only choice.

The buzz around IMA right now is heading towards parks just going to them for their production, and if they do they're lauded for their choice - even a basic flat in Liseberg.

That's what I am concerned by, the company themselves I love they've made a success for themselves and a carving out a great reputation as an independent producer of music in a very niche market, and wont even pretend I'm not a little jealous

Just wanted to clarify my points, although @Rob I have to say this made me chuckle:

Why should it matter how involved anyone has been in related fields? Or how music musical expertise a person has?

To be fair, in this case lol, I'd like to think knowing the kind of composers and talent that is around and not been discovered as such does give me a little leeway to add a professional opinion on the matter lol!!

 

[Scott]

I hate any kind of musical debate because music is entirely subjective.

Despite expert knowledge or understanding intricate details, it doesn't actually make a piece of music 'better' than another. One person likes one, one person will like another. The two will never agree because music is like that.

 

[Rob]

To be fair, in this case lol, I'd like to think knowing the kind of composers and talent that is around and not been discovered as such does give me a little leeway to add a professional opinion on the matter lol!!

I had meant in terms of stating whether or not the music is good or not. It's there for all to enjoy! I agree that any knowledge you have regarding composers or other talent out there is relevent when discussing others that have ability to produce theme park music. So apologies for any confusion there!

I don't think IMAsocre are anywhere close to saturating the market yet though. Only a handful of parks are using them (Toverland, Phantasialand, Liseberg and a few Merlin parks) on what could be called a regular basis. I really can't see any problems with that and it makes sense the parks go back to companies that have served them well, just like Towers and B&M between 1994 and 2002.

 

[TheMan]

I hate any kind of musical debate because music is entirely subjective.

Despite expert knowledge or understanding intricate details, it doesn't actually make a piece of music 'better' than another. One person likes one, one person will like another. The two will never agree because music is like that.

I agree with this that's why as a musician/producer whatever in general, you're better off trying to do your own thing because you never really know what an audience will like. Think of new breakthrough styles, particularly in electronic music, it's because someone's decided to go bat crap crazy usually and middle finger the standard and just do their own thing.

There's more formulaic approaches to generalised pop music etc, but usually real stand out artists don't bother trying to please anyone they just go on their own path - some are liked, some not to much, some result in cult followings etc - just using that as an example as to how subjective on the whole music is. All art is subjective, as frustrating as that can be for artists at times whom are supremely talented but never seem to manage to nail that "compelling proposition" (sorry ) that the public fall in love with, then comes some cheesy track "Where's me keys, where's me phone?" and millions of people go mad for it.

We certainly have no right to say, "THAT'S NOT AS TECHNICALLY COMPLEX AS SUCH AND SUCH, YOU MUST NOT LIKE THIS MUSIC!!" - though at times, I'd quite like to admittedly but more in terms of production standards and volume wars that actual musical ability as such. Having done both, I have to say, the technical aspects of production I find a greater challenge and I focus on that area now.

 

[Dave]

I'm amused that anyone thinks IMA have a monopoly.

Also that ride music is anything other than an emotional cue, The Smiler is a perfect example, it was designed to be distorted and jarring, to fit in with the theme of the ride. It was never designed to be a piece of music someone would sit and listen to.

 

[TheMan]

I'm amused that anyone thinks IMA have a monopoly.

Also that ride music is anything other than an emotional cue, The Smiler is a perfect example, it was designed to be distorted and jarring, to fit in with the theme of the ride. It was never designed to be a piece of music someone would sit and listen to.

But that's not good in a 3 hour queue and should have been thought of.

 

[Dar]

That's the point though! You're supposed to be jarred in the queue! You wouldn't sit at home and listen to it outside the context of the ride but it's a perfect fit when you're waiting for it!

(Count me in the "I love The Smiler's music" camp )

 

[TheMan]

I wouldn't mind it so much if the speaker system didn't fart at the bass.

That crackling noise and farting speaker is a nonsense. I don't THINK that's IMAscores fault, though the test of that would be to play some well produced dubstep through it (not a joke, that hammers bass and takes a good understanding of sub harmonics to properly realise).

I don't mind The Smiler music, it's pretty clever and some bits are decent! It just lacks the class of Oblivion's music, I just love that. Others probably hate that though so we're back to subjective again lol!

 

[Dave]

Oblivions music is quite literally a 20 second melody in a 2 minute sequence that repeated every 2 minutes.

It's great but it's hardy an example of anything other than what it is meant to be.... An audio cue to the intended emotion of the ride.

 

[TheMan]

Oblivions music is quite literally a 20 second melody in a 2 minute sequence that repeated every 2 minutes.

It's great but it's hardy an example of anything other than what it is meant to be.... An audio cue to the intended emotion of the ride.

I agree hence I used it as an example to balance my discussion and prove I understood the other side of the debate in terms of how subjective music is on the whole. Apologies if that did not come across properly.

 

[AstroDan]

This thread is making me howl. I appreciate we've some musical maestros on here but jeepers....

 

[Coaster]

Because of the hype they have generated within the ride score niche? As @TheMan said on page 1, if someone does a perceived good job and markets themselves well, then others will use them. Frankly though, I can't understand why anyone would have hired them after the abomination that is The Smiler soundtrack.

Abomination? The soundtrack that thousands of people remember from the ride? The one that you see typed into their Facebook and Twitter reviews? It's possibly one of the cleverest ride soundtracks around, to call it an abomination is a joke.

The speakers used to play the music on the other hand... Yes they are dire!

 

[Alastair]

Abomination? The soundtrack that thousands of people remember from the ride? The one that you see typed into their Facebook and Twitter reviews? It's possibly one of the cleverest ride soundtracks around, to call it an abomination is a joke.

The speakers used to play the music on the other hand... Yes they are dire!

Just because something is memorable doesn't mean it's good. Any old noise will become memorable the more times you hear it, indeed it's a fairly commonly noted fact that the more times you hear something, both the more you remember it and the more you like it.

I'd like you to show me a Facebook or Twitter review that compliments the music.