Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015

[James]

ITV News isn't *too* bad, although no doubt we'll see all the bad stuff taken out and quoted in all mainstream media for the next few days.

Hopefully they air something unedited so we can hear what Joe has to say properly. Not betting on it though.

 

[Leah]

That's why I am hoping it's live.

 

[Danza91]

The interview on ITV News is pre-recorded (and I think being shown at 6.30pm, not the morning) and then This Morning will be live.

 

[Rick]

If its human error, it has nothing to do with gerst. They would have no problem using them again.

I think that's too simplistic an approach. It could be human error but it could human error because a system allowed a human to make the error. Human did X because technology allowed them to.

That outcome is quite common in medical negligence cases.

To be honest, if this does turn out to be human error, Gerst are the real losers here. They're just starting to make a name for themselves, yet their reputation would be tarnished by an event totally outside of their control.

That links in to my response above. Different parks and chains will take their own view, whatever the outcome. Intamin have been at fault for quite a few incidents over the years and they still sell a lot of hardware.

 

[DiogoJ42]

Even if it does turn out to be "human error", the system should never have allowed the human to make that error in the first place.

 

[Leah]

Yes, I'm not denying that the system SHOULD have stoped it, but what you might be overlooking is the fact that the engineers have the ability to MANUALLY override the safety systems. This caused the Alton mouse to crash. A ride op restarted the ride manually after it had e-stopped, even though it had stopped because a car had stalled. Luckily this time, no one was on said cars

 

[Rob]

Even if it does turn out to be "human error", the system should never have allowed the human to make that error in the first place.

I agree, but if you could never reset a coaster, what would they ever have done when The Smiler previously stalled? The system has to allow an overide of sorts, and you'd hope it would never actually be used with guests on board! Speculation still of course, but I do think something like this played a big part.

I still don't understand how the stall was not spotted and the ride evaced immediately. For me, whatever went wrong after that, it is the biggest failing by far.

 

[Leah]

I agree, but if you could never reset a coaster, what would they ever have done when The Smiler previously stalled? The system has to allow an overide of sorts, and you'd hope it would never actually be used with guests on board! Speculation still of course, but I do think something like this played a big part.

I still don't understand how the stall was not spotted and the ride evaced immediately. For me, whatever went wrong after that, it is the biggest failing by far.

yes, think your right (obviously won't know until the hse report comes out) but i think that if you were the engineer on the smiler, and all day, every day, you just had to restart the ride again and again and again, you'd eventually get to the point where you didn't check why, you'd just assume its the same problem again, especially in a scenario where it had just broke down about 5 minutes earlier. This could be an issue with human error, and if it is, there is little geurst, merlin or anyone else can do to prevent it

 

[Rick]

Yes, I'm not denying that the system SHOULD have stoped it, but what you might be overlooking is the fact that the engineers have the ability to MANUALLY override the safety systems. This caused the Alton mouse to crash. A ride op restarted the ride manually after it had e-stopped, even though it had stopped because a car had stalled. Luckily this time, no one was on said cars

What sort of mad situation would make the above ideal?

Theme park procedures and the rides themselves have come a long way since the Alton Mouse accident.Alton Mouse had a relay box, from what I recall.

 

[AndrewH]

This could be an issue with human error, and if it is, there is little geurst, merlin or anyone else can do to prevent it

Could they not put the reset button at the bottom of lift 2 so you could see the whole track there and on the way there so would be very hard not to see.

 

[willb]

Could they not put the reset button at the bottom of lift 2 so you could see the whole track there and on the way there so would be very hard not to see.

Or even simpler, after any reset send one more test car round and Wait for it to come back before sending a loaded train!

Isn't this common sense?!

 

[AndrewH]

Or even simpler, after any reset send one more test car round and Wait for it to come back before sending a loaded train!

Isn't this common sense?!

But 2 already did make it back. And as I understand it if it was running 5 trains it cant get them all In the station and final break run.

 

[AirFAN]

yes, think your right (obviously won't know until the hse report comes out) but i think that if you were the engineer on the smiler, and all day, every day, you just had to restart the ride again and again and again, you'd eventually get to the point where you didn't check why, you'd just assume its the same problem again, especially in a scenario where it had just broke down about 5 minutes earlier. This could be an issue with human error, and if it is, there is little geurst, merlin or anyone else can do to prevent it

So on this basis the ride wouldn't have alerted the ride op to the fact a train hadn't reached a specific block section and would have just thrown a generic error? Surely this isn't right.

Can anyone put a ride into manual mode? Is there a key or a password that only more qualified members of staff have access too?

 

[AndrewH]

So on this basis the ride wouldn't have alerted the ride op to the fact a train hadn't reached a specific block section and would have just thrown a generic error? Surely this isn't right.

Can anyone put a ride into manual mode? Is there a key or a password that only more qualified members of staff have access too?

Only tech services have the manual ride key

 

[Stuntman707]

Could they not put the reset button at the bottom of lift 2 so you could see the whole track there and on the way there so would be very hard not to see.

This would be a good idea, they should force the engineer to physically go out of the control room to clear the ride from an outdoor control panel before it can be fully reset.

 

[James]

If it's the case of a manual override there are very simple fixes to put in place really. One that should be put in place is that when an engineer is called before loading guests back on the ride a full visual check of the track must be performed by an engineer and double checked by a member of staff. Plus wait until all cars/trains are on the brake runs and visually checked to be on the brake runs before resetting and loading guests.

If that is the result of the crash it's highly unlikely to happen again anyway, but some extra levels of safety checks and ensuring no guests are on rides during these procedures will ensure something like this will never happen again.

 

[Danza91]

Joe Pugh was just on, seems to be coping with it extremely well and spoke about what happened on the day and in some quite graphic detail! Reiterated they were stuck at the top for about 20 mins and received an announcement that staff were going to help them, though that doesn't necessarily suggest they knew about the stall I think staff must have if they were up there for 20 mins and received an announcement.

Was asked if he felt any anger towards Alton Towers and said he couldn't stress enough how fantastic they've been and doesn't want to point any blame or anything. Though said when the H&S report is out his emotions may change.

Also thought Schofield and Holden were very fair.

 

[Stuntman707]

From Joe's recollection, it sounds like the staff may have known about the stall due to the fact that they announced they were going to help him. I admire how well he seems to be coping though.

 

[Rob]

Sounds like a very level headed individual which is good to hear, I've recording the interview so will have a watch later.

First we've heard of the annoucment during the stop though, would be very interesting to know what exactly was said.

 

[GaryH]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...crash-refused-painkillers-afraid-needles.html