Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015

[GaryH]

You cannot dictate or set out what can / cannot, should / should not be discussed. It's a public Forum. By definition, that means a place we can all share opinions, thoughts and ideas, so long as they are legal.

These guys are in the public eye, like it or not. Some have gone public with EVERYTHING so you can hardly expect the forum to remain mute on topics regarding them.

I suggest you read my post again. What I said was who are we to criticize these people or demand the ride to reopen? I didn't say you couldn't, but doing so just shows how we put a bit of metal over the lives of people severely affected by riding it. But hey if you, or others want to go on and make comments about the victims, feel free, no one is stopping you, but it does come across as highly insensitive.

As for how long it stays closed, and if it stays closed out of respect, only Towers and HSE can make that decision. Not us, not the victims, no one. HSE will have the first say in whether they lift the probation or not, and Towers will open the ride afterwards when they feel the time is right to do so.

You don't think keeping it closed to ensure it never happens again isn't respectful? Maybe respect is the wrong word here, but Towers will do everything (with the HSE) to ensure all measures are in place to stop such an accident ever happening again yes, and it should remain closed until it can feel reassured it can do this. If anything, it owes the victims that much to ensure no one else goes through what they have. Is that respect? Maybe, maybe not.....

 

[T]

I suggest you read my post again. What I said was who are we to criticize these people or demand the ride to reopen? I didn't say you couldn't, but doing so just shows how we put a bit of metal over the lives of people severely affected by riding it. But hey if you, or others want to go on and make comments about the victims, feel free, no one is stopping you, but it does come across as highly insensitive.

As for how long it stays closed, and if it stays closed out of respect, only Towers and HSE can make that decision. Not us, not the victims, no one. HSE will have the first say in whether they lift the probation or not, and Towers will open the ride afterwards when they feel the time is right to do so.

You don't think keeping it closed to ensure it never happens again isn't respectful? Maybe respect is the wrong word here, but Towers will do everything (with the HSE) to ensure all measures are in place to stop such an accident ever happening again yes, and it should remain closed until it can feel reassured it can do this. If anything, it owes the victims that much to ensure no one else goes through what they have. Is that respect? Maybe, maybe not.....

"Respect" doesn't come into it.

Lets close EVERY motorway, road, lane and track, as a mark of respect for victims of Road Collisions, be it a bump to the head, or a fatality.
Lets shut down Air Travel, as a mark of respect for fatalities in crashes and accidents.
Lets stop ALL Air shows as a mark of respect for the fatalities of Air Show distasters.

See how stupid it sounds?

 

[Slugjc]

Now now people, people getting angry and heated. Yes this is a forum and you are entitled to your opinion. However saying the victims/survivors/injured/amputees should shut and just take meelins money, is pretty horrendous. They are allowed to be angry at merlin. They are allowed to speak to press, and say what you they want. No money can replace a leg. No money can get rid of dreams. No amount of money can erase what they families were going through driving to stoke that day.

Some of you need to think, yes the press have twisted the story, but that's what they do. The press lie, for internet clicks and to sell papers. But these are lives and no matter what 2 people not following procedure has changed 12 of lives forever. If they think it should be scrapped then who are we to argue

 

[XXBENNXX]

Later in my life i will have my left leg amputated at the knee.

I already barely have use of my legs, maybe 30 percent of the time i can walk.

my life is significantly better since getting unwell. It made me appreciate things more. Made me pull my finger out and make something of myself.

They are milking it full stop. Nailing my colours to the mast. Their recovery should be a private affair. They CHOOSE to make it public. Towers is not at fault as an organisation it is directly on the two people who are responsible. She very much implied that towers are only reopening it for money. If i was Varney, thst is where my stellar, beyond what is required, assistance would end. They are helping her, they are not responsible and she has no right to get a few hundred quid in her back pocket to go on tv and make slanderous comments.

she is ungrateful. Sorry but i live in the real world, and here, you don't go and publically slag people who are doing all they can and more to aid your recovery just to get a headline.

 

[Rob]

Later in my life i will have my left leg amputated at the knee.

I already barely have use of my legs, maybe 30 percent of the time i can walk.

my life is significantly better since getting unwell. It made me appreciate things more. Made me pull my finger out and make something of myself.

They are milking it full stop. Nailing my colours to the mast. Their recovery should be a private affair. They CHOOSE to make it public. Towers is not at fault as an organisation it is directly on the two people who are responsible. She very much implied that towers are only reopening it for money. If i was Varney, thst is where my stellar, beyond what is required, assistance would end. They are helping her, they are not responsible and she has no right to get a few hundred quid in her back pocket to go on tv and make slanderous comments.

she is ungrateful. Sorry but i live in the real world, and here, you don't go and publically slag people who are doing all they can and more to aid your recovery just to get a headline.

Wow. Just wow.

Alton Towers are not at fault? Of course they are, they are responsible for their employees! Nick Varney has already said on numerous occasions that Merlin take full responsibility for what happened.

I find calling those involved in the incident "ungrateful" as extremely disrespectful and totally unnecessary. Yes this is a public forum where you can air your views but there is a line. Their recovery is whatever they make of it, there are no rules stating that it must be private.

 

[XXBENNXX]

Of course she is ungrateful.

No Alton Towers ad an entity are not at fault, the employees are extensively trained, and clearly ignored that training when making such a monumental error. Towers have accepted that fault which to be honest they did not have to do.

She has gone on TV and to the Daily mail and openly called the man overseeing her care and recovery a liar, simply because she doesn't want the ride open again. A car crashed yesterday and killed an old woman on a roundabout round the corner, should we ban cars?

Nick Varney had no reason to go into their home and say that they are losing money so need it open, he had made an official statement saying they asked him about the money side of things and i have no reason to disbelieve that statement.

Why continue to go on tv and to the papers? It baffles the mind. I would want to move on, but clearly these people don't. Like i said, they CHOOSE to go to the media and get paid to keep this hatred for towers alive.

People calling this girl brave are deluded, not even 24 hours had passed and she had a no win no fee lawyer making statements. All she saw was a payout, which she was never going to be denied, she has got herself a modelling contract, which she never would have got otherwise and she gets paid to do the media rounds as much as possible, she honestly thinks she is some kind of celebrity and wants to keep it that way.

It happened, it should never have happened, but it did. Nobody lost their lives, yes lives have been changed forever but adjusting is something we as humans do well, they are and will continue to be taken care of extremely well. The ride will reopen, and to be honest, the sooner the better, because that is towers saying, this was not the fault of the ride. It is safe.

I'm sorry if people disagree with what i am saying, but fhe term, you don't bite the hand that feeds you, comes to mind. So yes ungrateful is a very apt word. It wasn't Nick Varneys fault, but he has gone above and beyond the call of duty to personally support those people, and lies and slagging is what he gets in return.

 

[Resonate]

In other news. is it open yet?

 

[Rob]

Of course she is ungrateful.

No Alton Towers ad an entity are not at fault, the employees are extensively trained, and clearly ignored that training when making such a monumental error. Towers have accepted that fault which to be honest they did not have to do.

She has gone on TV and to the Daily mail and openly called the man overseeing her care and recovery a liar, simply because she doesn't want the ride open again. A car crashed yesterday and killed an old woman on a roundabout round the corner, should we ban cars?

Nick Varney had no reason to go into their home and say that they are losing money so need it open, he had made an official statement saying they asked him about the money side of things and i have no reason to disbelieve that statement.

Why continue to go on tv and to the papers? It baffles the mind. I would want to move on, but clearly these people don't. Like i said, they CHOOSE to go to the media and get paid to keep this hatred for towers alive.

People calling this girl brave are deluded, not even 24 hours had passed and she had a no win no fee lawyer making statements. All she saw was a payout, which she was never going to be denied, she has got herself a modelling contract, which she never would have got otherwise and she gets paid to do the media rounds as much as possible, she honestly thinks she is some kind of celebrity and wants to keep it that way.

It happened, it should never have happened, but it did. Nobody lost their lives, yes lives have been changed forever but adjusting is something we as humans do well, they are and will continue to be taken care of extremely well. The ride will reopen, and to be honest, the sooner the better, because that is towers saying, this was not the fault of the ride. It is safe.

I'm sorry if people disagree with what i am saying, but fhe term, you don't bite the hand that feeds you, comes to mind. So yes ungrateful is a very apt word. It wasn't Nick Varneys fault, but he has gone above and beyond the call of duty to personally support those people, and lies and slagging is what he gets in return.

Alton Towers are at fault and that is why they will be prosecuted by the HSE. They will probably plead guilty to save the time and costs of a trial, and because they are guilty. Denying this fact is deluded.

Where has Nick Varney been called a liar by any of those involved? I have not read that anywhere.

Do you honestly think those involved were the ones who personally got a lawyer involved within 24 hours? Heck they were in hospital undergoing surgery. Another mad and unfounded claim. The families more than likely got together to seek a lawyer to represent them.

I personally think some quotes have been taken out of context. I do not blame any of them for not wanting the ride to open again, it's understandable that they make think that way. Clearly it will though. Do we know for sure that she implied Nick Varney said the ride would reopen because they are losing a lot of money? As far as I am aware we don't. Chances are something was said and the reporting paper was able to word it in a manner that made it sound like this.

The media are not going to let this one lie, we all know that. If people involved want to do interviews with the media then they are entitled to do this. Don't forget a lot of this has come out now as the Daily Mirror awards thingy has just taken place (airing on ITV tonight) and the rescuers have recieved awards.

 

[spinba11]

In other news. is it open yet?

No.

 

[Resonate]

I can see them having to open a dedicated "middle row" queue when it reopens lol.

 

[ASturge21]

Does anyone know if any of the other riders will be getting compensation for the incident although not as much as the front row riders

 

[Jonathan]

Does anyone know if any of the other riders will be getting compensation for the incident although not as much as the front row riders

As far as I'm aware, all riders who were on the train that crashed will be compensated, but the four on the front row will obviously be getting more, as their injuries were much more serious.

 

[Leah]

Later in my life i will have my left leg amputated at the knee.

I already barely have use of my legs, maybe 30 percent of the time i can walk.

my life is significantly better since getting unwell. It made me appreciate things more. Made me pull my finger out and make something of myself.

They are milking it full stop. Nailing my colours to the mast. Their recovery should be a private affair. They CHOOSE to make it public. Towers is not at fault as an organisation it is directly on the two people who are responsible. She very much implied that towers are only reopening it for money. If i was Varney, thst is where my stellar, beyond what is required, assistance would end. They are helping her, they are not responsible and she has no right to get a few hundred quid in her back pocket to go on tv and make slanderous comments.

she is ungrateful. Sorry but i live in the real world, and here, you don't go and publically slag people who are doing all they can and more to aid your recovery just to get a headline.

Of course she is ungrateful.

No Alton Towers ad an entity are not at fault, the employees are extensively trained, and clearly ignored that training when making such a monumental error. Towers have accepted that fault which to be honest they did not have to do.

She has gone on TV and to the Daily mail and openly called the man overseeing her care and recovery a liar, simply because she doesn't want the ride open again. A car crashed yesterday and killed an old woman on a roundabout round the corner, should we ban cars?

Nick Varney had no reason to go into their home and say that they are losing money so need it open, he had made an official statement saying they asked him about the money side of things and i have no reason to disbelieve that statement.

Why continue to go on tv and to the papers? It baffles the mind. I would want to move on, but clearly these people don't. Like i said, they CHOOSE to go to the media and get paid to keep this hatred for towers alive.

People calling this girl brave are deluded, not even 24 hours had passed and she had a no win no fee lawyer making statements. All she saw was a payout, which she was never going to be denied, she has got herself a modelling contract, which she never would have got otherwise and she gets paid to do the media rounds as much as possible, she honestly thinks she is some kind of celebrity and wants to keep it that way.

It happened, it should never have happened, but it did. Nobody lost their lives, yes lives have been changed forever but adjusting is something we as humans do well, they are and will continue to be taken care of extremely well. The ride will reopen, and to be honest, the sooner the better, because that is towers saying, this was not the fault of the ride. It is safe.

I'm sorry if people disagree with what i am saying, but fhe term, you don't bite the hand that feeds you, comes to mind. So yes ungrateful is a very apt word. It wasn't Nick Varneys fault, but he has gone above and beyond the call of duty to personally support those people, and lies and slagging is what he gets in return.

I actually agree with most of your points except that towers aren't at fault. They aren't fully at fault, they were unique circumstances (bad weather etc...) but it was still their fault overall. Without knowing the untwisted truth, I can't say weather she is ungrateful or not. Without really looking at what she said, all I think is that she's entitled to her opinion. I don't know what she said but I think "ungrateful" is the wrong word here (or maybe it's not I don't know) but
I'd just be careful saying things like this as now you have opened yourself up to criticism from other members.

 

[Danza91]

If someone can't accept that Alton Towers are at fault then there is no use engaging in a debate with them. Even with human error, both the employee and employer are responsible.

 

[Rick]

Vicarious liability

 

[Dar]

Of course she's ungrateful, she should be thanking Nick for giving her the opportunity to experience life as a disabled person. How dare she feel like they shouldn't open the machine that gifted her this new lease on life!

She's entitled to those feelings, whether they should be taken into account during any decisions surrounding the ride is another matter entirely.

I do wonder why they're doing all this work and testing now, as opposed to out of sight over the closed season, if they never had any intention of reopening this season?

 

[James]

Towers is not at fault as an organisation it is directly on the two people who are responsible.

No Alton Towers ad an entity are not at fault, the employees are extensively trained, and clearly ignored that training when making such a monumental error. Towers have accepted that fault which to be honest they did not have to do.

Woah there, lets not fall into the trap of what the media gives off. It very may well have been two people at fault, but there could be far more to it than that. They could have been new to the job with little experience, Alton Towers policies and procedures may be to blame, the people involved could have been going through personal issues with Towers not providing personal care etc etc... "Human error" doesn't mean straight off the bat it's those persons faults and they're solely to blame. There could be more to it and it's ridiculous to start pointing the finger, unless you know the details of the investigation.

Ultimately Alton Towers and Merlin will take responsibility anyway. They have to take care of their employees, train them properly, and ensure staff enjoy their job as well as their life outside the role. When something like this happens, it's the companies fault for allowing it to happen, for whatever reasons.

 

[ASturge21]

Woah there, lets not fall into the trap of what the media gives off. It very may well have been two people at fault, but there could be far more to it than that. They could have been new to the job with little experience, Alton Towers policies and procedures may be to blame, the people involved could have been going through personal issues with Towers not providing personal care etc etc... "Human error" doesn't mean straight off the bat it's those persons faults and they're solely to blame. There could be more to it and it's ridiculous to start pointing the finger, unless you know the details of the investigation.

Ultimately Alton Towers and Merlin will take responsibility anyway. They have to take care of their employees, train them properly, and ensure staff enjoy their job as well as their life outside the role. When something like this happens, it's the companies fault for allowing it to happen, for whatever reasons.

Totally agree also human error leaves quite a wide scope and the human error may be down to the training person or the ops themselves. Anything a towers employee does (during work hours) is there responsibility and thus would be at fault.

 

[XXBENNXX]

I only say the park are not at fault because it is the fault of the staff members. Not the park itself.

look have a life of being disabled, i wasn't always disabled. Things happen you deal with it.

she and her mother flat out denied that nick Varneys statement in which he says that money was only mentioned when they asked him about it, is untrue, and go on to say that was one of the first things he said, without being prompted. if that is not calling him a liar idon't know what is.

yes she is ungrateful. Not for the sarcasticreasons some people are suggesting i mean, but for the exemplary support the organisation have given her since.

Once again, biting the hand that feeds you springs to mind.

you have a right to disagree with me. I am looking at this objectively and without emotion.

i know what is like to be disabled for life after being fit and healthy, through no fault of my own.

 

[Tom]

I only say the park are not at fault because it is the fault of the staff members. Not the park itself.

That's almost certainly wrong. 'Human error', other than a deliberate act or deception by an individual, will be the responsibility of the park as they didn't ensure competence.