Alex23
TS Member
Sky had it in their article for a long time and even reported it live on TV. From such a big corporation you'd expect better but then again Murdoch owns The Sun.....
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Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015
Bantanium
TS Member
Thought so, guess what newspaperRubbish.
James
TS Founding Member
Sky news did quite bluntly report yesterday that they had heard reports of a death, and they also asked the emergency services that were at Towers (via phone call) if someone had died.
Not quite reported as fact by them, but still mentioned which is enough to scare anyone at home, even I felt a bit sick when they brought that up on a live broadcast.
Oops, my mistake. Shows how I don't understand the layout well!
It's indeed a very strange event. Hopefully we hear something in the coming months, even if the final report won't be released for a very very long time.
Not quite reported as fact by them, but still mentioned which is enough to scare anyone at home, even I felt a bit sick when they brought that up on a live broadcast.
Neither train made it to lift 2, it all happened in the first half of the ride.
Whatever went wrong it is certainly very strange event, and it should not have happened. I hope we get the initial findings of the investigation sooner rather than later just so we can put to bed some of the speculation, as it is never nice to have to speculate about something like this. I'd imagine Towers and HSE have a decent idea of the main cause by now, but it will take longer to put the full picture together.
Oops, my mistake. Shows how I don't understand the layout well!
It's indeed a very strange event. Hopefully we hear something in the coming months, even if the final report won't be released for a very very long time.
cotda
TS Member
Because, you have 5 trains to get round, not all can fit in the station/final brake run, you can't wait for every empty train to come back because you'd be there infinitely. They're only mentioning the one empty train, but I wouldn't be surprised if they'd sent multiple trains round without passengers prior to that one.
TomLad
TS Member
Why does everyone think it needs a rebrand? Airbus or Boeing losing a plane doesn't call for them to rethink how they market their aircraft. Incidents like these happen, rarely, but they happen. This one just so happened to be a high profile ride at a high profile park. If anything, a rebrand would make people think that they were trying their very best to hide away from what happened rather than solve the problem and move on.
phildenholm
TS Member
BBC news had some woman on this morning claiming to have seen it all happen and to be distraught that she was only 2 cars away from getting on the ride herself, erm now is this possible when 2 cars from getting on you would be in a building with no windows?!?! things like this are very polarizing they bring out the best in some people and sadly the worst in others!
I believe Towers and merlin seem to be doing and saying all the right things, I know lots of people on here don't like towers/merlin but credit where credit is due. I do hope that the possible human error wasn't caused by pressure to get the ride running again.
Sad news about the poor couple who seem to have come off worst, my thoughts are with them
I believe Towers and merlin seem to be doing and saying all the right things, I know lots of people on here don't like towers/merlin but credit where credit is due. I do hope that the possible human error wasn't caused by pressure to get the ride running again.
Sad news about the poor couple who seem to have come off worst, my thoughts are with them
Scott
Former TS Team Member
It's been speculated by media outlets. Unconfirmed though.
NeilXEdge
TS Member
I have been told by people who know the girl in question that she has been given the option of a prosphetic limb. From this alone it seems its either that or shes going to be in a wheelchair. Im guessing the leg is gone. As soon as i hear anything i will post.
Burbs
TS Team
Apologies if this has already been posted, but I'm fairly sure it hasn't. The HSE has made a statement regarding the investigation to yesterday's incident.
http://press.hse.gov.uk/2015/statement-hses-investigation-into-the-incident-at-alton-towers/
http://press.hse.gov.uk/2015/statement-hses-investigation-into-the-incident-at-alton-towers/
phildenholm
TS Member
totally agree, there will be all the negative press for a while but they will move on to the next story they need to sensationalise. Unfortunately with all the social media this wont go away as quickly as incidents in the past but the ride, the park and merlin will recover from this as hopefully so will all the 16 injured guests. I do wonder if a car redesign to make them safer will be needed but this could just be larger rubber buffers to stop cars coming into contact.
Slugjc
TS Member
when a plane crashes they blame the company operating. Not the plane. People are fickle. From now on a google you can type "the smiler" and it will show crash/incident. Change the name people think new ride. Rebeand does wonders to change deceptions. Escourt/focus etc.
MichelinMan
TS Member
Been lurking on here for a few years now, but just signed up for my first post. I'm taking the family for 3 nights to Splash Landings in a few weeks time, so have been watching the events with great interest.
I have to declare I have some experience with accident investigations and dealing with the HSE. First of all I have no direct knowledge of this investigation, but I do know how these things work, as I have a Safety Engineering background.
Almost certainly the HSE will have placed a Prohibition Notice on the operation of the Smiler rollercoaster. It wouldn't surprise me if the notice also extended to all the coasters in the park. If the accident looks like it is attributable to human error - which from what I have read looks increasingly likely - then that calls into question the whole issue of procedures and competence to run all the coasters, not just Smiler. That can't be fixed overnight - so it didn't surprise me that the park was closed again today to reassess procedures and determine if there is any staff training required.
The HSE are unlikely to have issued a Prohibition Notice against the whole park - they just wouldn't have the evidence to say the procedures and training for operating other, lower risk, attractions would be inadequate.However, without the coasters, there isn't much point opening the rest of the park.
What I found interesting is that the coasters at Chessington also weren't operating - so I just wonder if any Prohibition Notice that might have been issued would also extend to all coasters operated by Merlin - were the coasters at Legoland operating today? Or alternatively, it might just be Merlin being cautious and checking all of their procedures across all parks.
If the accident WAS human error, then it still doesn't mean the coaster can be back up and running quickly. There are ways of designing against human error using inherent safety principles - for example through the use of interlocks etc - so there will probably be hardware, as well as procedural, changes required by the HSE - probably via an improvement notice. Improvement notices have a minimum of a 28 day compliance period, so Smiler would be unlikely to start up again quicker than that.
The HSE will also need to finish their investigation. Normally they would take into possession failed equipment, but in this case that would be a bit difficult. It wouldn't surprise me if they took into possession the 2 cars that collided, which would then be taken to the Health and Safety Laboratory for storage. The rest of the evidence they would gather 'in-situ'. That shouldn't take too long (should be finished within weeks), at which point they would release the coaster, which could then be used again as soon as AT have complied with the requirements of any Improvement Notice. The HSE would keep the 2 damaged cars until any potential prosecution is finished (which can take years sometimes). So even if Smiler did restart, they wouldn't have many cars available (unless AT bought some new ones).
I have my own views on what caused the accident, but will keep them to myself - litigation and free speech on the internet shouldn't mix, but they do unfortunately!
However, if this was due to human error, it might be worth thinking about the poor s*d who might have made that error - they will be feeling desperate at this moment in time, but from my experience of accident investigation they shouldn't be too hard on themself. Human error failings are more usually to do with management system failings or lack of inherent safety in the design to prevent human error, than the failure of the individual themself.
I have to declare I have some experience with accident investigations and dealing with the HSE. First of all I have no direct knowledge of this investigation, but I do know how these things work, as I have a Safety Engineering background.
Almost certainly the HSE will have placed a Prohibition Notice on the operation of the Smiler rollercoaster. It wouldn't surprise me if the notice also extended to all the coasters in the park. If the accident looks like it is attributable to human error - which from what I have read looks increasingly likely - then that calls into question the whole issue of procedures and competence to run all the coasters, not just Smiler. That can't be fixed overnight - so it didn't surprise me that the park was closed again today to reassess procedures and determine if there is any staff training required.
The HSE are unlikely to have issued a Prohibition Notice against the whole park - they just wouldn't have the evidence to say the procedures and training for operating other, lower risk, attractions would be inadequate.However, without the coasters, there isn't much point opening the rest of the park.
What I found interesting is that the coasters at Chessington also weren't operating - so I just wonder if any Prohibition Notice that might have been issued would also extend to all coasters operated by Merlin - were the coasters at Legoland operating today? Or alternatively, it might just be Merlin being cautious and checking all of their procedures across all parks.
If the accident WAS human error, then it still doesn't mean the coaster can be back up and running quickly. There are ways of designing against human error using inherent safety principles - for example through the use of interlocks etc - so there will probably be hardware, as well as procedural, changes required by the HSE - probably via an improvement notice. Improvement notices have a minimum of a 28 day compliance period, so Smiler would be unlikely to start up again quicker than that.
The HSE will also need to finish their investigation. Normally they would take into possession failed equipment, but in this case that would be a bit difficult. It wouldn't surprise me if they took into possession the 2 cars that collided, which would then be taken to the Health and Safety Laboratory for storage. The rest of the evidence they would gather 'in-situ'. That shouldn't take too long (should be finished within weeks), at which point they would release the coaster, which could then be used again as soon as AT have complied with the requirements of any Improvement Notice. The HSE would keep the 2 damaged cars until any potential prosecution is finished (which can take years sometimes). So even if Smiler did restart, they wouldn't have many cars available (unless AT bought some new ones).
I have my own views on what caused the accident, but will keep them to myself - litigation and free speech on the internet shouldn't mix, but they do unfortunately!
However, if this was due to human error, it might be worth thinking about the poor s*d who might have made that error - they will be feeling desperate at this moment in time, but from my experience of accident investigation they shouldn't be too hard on themself. Human error failings are more usually to do with management system failings or lack of inherent safety in the design to prevent human error, than the failure of the individual themself.
TomLad
TS Member
But then taking the airline example, they don't rebrand do they? Taking both the major accidents of Air France (Rio to Paris) or the recent German Wings crash, one human 'error' and the other mechanical/software failure. Two high profile companies, very safe industry and people are still going to use them and realise that things are perfectly okay for 99.9% of the time. Yes, googling both comes up with their respective incidents, but I recently read on the internet (dangerous, I know) that google favours negative results as it drives clicks and ad revenue. The nature of the beast really. After two years of aggressive advertising, a rebrand would damage their reputation when people think they are coving up. Especially as everyone knows about 'The Smiler and its 14 loops, more loops than any other!' I think in this situation they can only find the cause and keep their heads held high about the professionalism that we saw in handling the worst.
Slugjc
TS Member
they can keep the name, but the #getcorrected and you belong to the smiler will have to change I think. As for airlines some go bust after a big incident. Pan-am and lockerbie