Is Alton Towers a world class theme park?

[Tarin Maria]

If someone had asked this about Europa, or Disney Florida, or Universal, there wouldn't even be a discussion. Just flat out yeses. That is how you know what world class is, there isn't discussion.
TheMan just said it. Gordon Ramsay is a world class chef like Heston, no one can argue that. But you don't have to like him.

 

[TheMan]

Also, by everyone saying it isn't as good as those parks we all know with no doubt are world class, means it isn't world class.
(I had already made that point, but it was completely ignored)

"No, it's not up there with the Elite"
"It's not the creme de la creme"
"It isn't up to that standard"

Choose a contradiction for your post as to why it's world class.

They all come with a BUT - which negates the statements validity.

It is, or it isn't.

I am not sure my and your opinions on how much we like Alton Towers are similar or differ, that's a preference, and largely subjective issue, but we agree on the fact it isn't world class. I personally don't believe truly world class is ever subjective. It's either best in class or not. World class stands above all others, it creates direction, provides inspiration, leads the way, and sets new standards.

Alton Towers.... Really? Come off it.

I love the place, it can be world class, it has some world class elements in the park that are not being suitably looked after, now for me it is a tier below, maybe at a push 2- so it's a great park, some great hardware, an unbeatable setting with huge potential still.

Let's not pretend it's not a fantastic(al) park, it is, but you can't have crap like Dark Forest, rotting patched up Log Flumes, a Maurer with rotting bits every where, it's signature coaster with the theme being left to ruin, a Gerst plastered in concrete, a 20 year old monorail that looks tatty with bland plain entrance buildings, dirty car parks, a hotel with basically ONE BAR, opening hours that are frankly an embarrassment at times, poor and decreasing food quality, every increasing in your face upsell and stickers/posters plastered everywhere, a mine train that can barely be run on a setting past YAWN, an accelerator with the most ludicrous theme I've seen for one - heck the dog fart would have made more sense than YOU MUST ESCAPE.... oh, you're back again, QUICK ESCAPE AGAIN... THERE - under that world class scaffolding!!

OK, one or two of those can be forgiven, but seriously, all those? Things that are frequently mentioned AND world class in the same sentence?

 

[smudge]

Also, by everyone saying it isn't as good as those parks we all know with no doubt are world class, means it isn't world class.
(I had already made that point, but it was completely ignored)

Because people disagree with your point doesn't mean you were ignored.

How is that even a point anyway, just because you said the above, doesn't make it fact. It's a matter of opinion. 'World Class' can (obviously) be distinguished completely differently by individuals, the poll CLEARLY shows that.

On one hand you have TM's argument, football, theme parks & even chefs ( ffs ) - which (as always) is very clear, valid & understandable - then you have the 'others' who think that visitor numbers, customer feedback, hardware, location, individuality, charm, history, grounds & (dare i?) theming make it 'world class', which (I think) is equally as valid. (Nothing to do with 'liking' the place.)

However, your point/discussion about food seems irrelevant, (to me anyway) not just because it is biased. I'm sorry to hear you had food poisoning (even if I don't actually believe you), however there are cases in most establishments, and as long as it is not an regular occurrence, and food hygiene laws are adhered to, this holds no weight to whether somewhere is 'world class' or not.

 

[TheMan]

even chefs ( ffs )

*Doths cap*



Glad you appreciated that one sir!

 

[Tarin Maria]

I am not sure my and your opinions on how much we like Alton Towers are similar or differ, that's a preference, and largely subjective issue, but we agree on the fact it isn't world class. I personally don't believe truly world class is ever subjective. It's either best in class or not. World class stands above all others, it creates direction, provides inspiration, leads the way, and sets new standards.

Its not that I don't like Towers its the best park we have in the UK in my opinion, I love Nemmie, and Blivvy, even Th13rteen is fun, Hex and Duel, and I go there more often than to Thorpe or Chessington (even though I live 100 miles closer to those two).
Liking something does not make it world class. I adore The Conjuring, doesn't make it the best horror film ever made, or even close.
The food at Towers does my head in because it isn't very good and costs an extortionate amount of money. Fast tracks in general annoy me, firstly their existence, but also how much they cost since they exist. The gate price doesn't affect me since I have an annual pass.
But I still like the place.

Because people disagree with your point doesn't mean you were ignored.
...
However, your point/discussion about food seems irrelevant, (to me anyway) not just because it is biased. I'm sorry to hear you had food poisoning (even if I don't actually believe you), however there are cases in most establishments, and as long as it is not an regular occurrence, and food hygiene laws are adhered to, this holds no weight to whether somewhere is 'world class' or not.

People ignored my post, there weren't any responses to it.

I am quite offended that you would assume I was lying when you don't even know me. How rude of you. But, no one is actually asking you to believe me babes. I wasn't on death's door with food poisoning, I had a nasty upset stomach and nausea. But thanks for your very very important opinion

 

[smudge]

I personally don't believe truly world class is ever subjective. It's either best in class or not. World class stands above all others, it creates direction, provides inspiration, leads the way, and sets new standards.

Alton Towers.... Really? Come off it.

It clearly is subjective as I wholeheartedly disagree with your definition of 'world class.'

Going back to your football example, Di Maria/Aguero/Suarez are world class players, agree? However they are not the best players either - Messi/Ronaldo? Does this, by your standards, not make them world class then?

Towers does lead the way in many areas - of course not at all in other areas.

 

[TheMan]

It clearly is subjective as I wholeheartedly disagree with your definition of 'world class.'

Going back to your football example, Di Maria/Aguero/Suarez are world class players, agree? However they are not the best players either - Messi/Ronaldo? Does this, by your standards, not make them world class then?

Towers does lead the way in many areas - of course not at all in other areas.

Actually that's the point I'm making, being serious and not talking about Snail Porridge for a moment

I think when the debate kicks in, that's when something fails to be elite, the true pinnacle. There doesn't need to be only one, there can be many at once, I think Aguero is a world class striker yes but over all - maybe, Suarez is yet to prove himself he has potential, DiMaria for me? Not quite. Brilliant yes, but world class no.

But see what we're doing there? We're opining.

Messi/Ronaldo/Bale - World Class

Aguero/DiMaria/Suarez (Maybe above)

Rooney etc
------------------------

EP/Universal/Top Disney parks - Maybe even Busch (never been)

Then for me you have your Towers level parks etc between the next two levels. But the worlds best for me, and by definition, should be exactly that, and please I hope everyone takes what I say here seriously on this matter, I DESPERATELY want the place to be!

It can be a bit smaller than EP, attractions not as big or sprawling as Universal, and be "boutique" world class if you like - but it really could be, but all the parts that MAKE it like that, Merlin are ripping the soul out of bit by bit.

And with the state of the park, food etc - right now, it's not world class, and Merlin don't even pretend it is - that should say it all.

 

[smudge]

People ignored my post, there weren't any responses to it.

I am quite offended that you would assume I was lying when you don't even know me. How rude of you. But, no one is actually asking you to believe me babes. I wasn't on death's door with food poisoning, I had a nasty upset stomach and nausea. But thanks for your very very important opinion

How can you be offended? You didn't have food poisoning? I get an upset stomach from bloody rice crispies - however I don't feel the need to involve this into a debate on Kelloggs being a world class cereal manufacturer.

I was right to assume you were lying was I not? Believe it or not people can forge opinions on what they read, even though I do not know you, I still have my opinion on you, like you do of me. Like you thinking that I would like to be called babes and/or would be offended by it? Also, sarcasm, was their any need for it? I certainly do not take my opinion as 'very very important'.

Anyway, we have differing opinions, but please do not be offended, my apologies if that was the case.

 

[Panda]

 

[Jem8472]

I could not have put it any better! Perfect post Panda

 

[pluk]

It has some world class rides, it has a world class setting, it manages to deliver a second rate experience. Impressive.

 

[Tarin Maria]

How can you be offended? You didn't have food poisoning? I get an upset stomach from bloody rice crispies - however I don't feel the need to involve this into a debate on Kelloggs being a world class cereal manufacturer.

I was right to assume you were lying was I not? Believe it or not people can forge opinions on what they read, even though I do not know you, I still have my opinion on you, like you do of me. Like you thinking that I would like to be called babes and/or would be offended by it? Also, sarcasm, was their any need for it? I certainly do not take my opinion as 'very very important'.

Anyway, we have differing opinions, but please do not be offended, my apologies if that was the case.

Please find my post saying it gave me food poisoning, and not just saying it made me sick. I didn't say that, you all said that. Pick on me, and I'll say something, I didn't lie. :')
Also... There*

 

[jon81uk]

Maybe even Busch (never been)

I hadn't thought of Busch Gardens. Only been to the Florida one, but I think if you mashed together Alton Towers and Chessington (and a little of Thorpe) you would almost get Busch Gardens Tampa. It isn't as good as Disney/Universal for theming, but is better for thrills.

So yes, I think in a league table (of parks I've been to at least)
Disney USA
Universal USA
Disney Paris
Busch/Seaworld parksb = Merlin UK Parks

 

[Ketz]

It's totally personnel opinion. I would say Busch and Seaworld are a different class to Alton towers and the other merlin parks as they offer a all round experience and reasonably high theming levels.

 

[TheMan]

If you took out Nemesis and Oblivion, what are you left with?

I know people will have a word about that, but my point is they are getting on a bit now age wise, how many other world class parks are relying on coasters 20 years old?

The Smiler is good, but to divide opinion as it does on if it's better than a 20 year old coaster - all be it a classic - genuine question, can someone show me another park anywhere where that same debate is had?

 

[James]

Please find my post saying it gave me food poisoning, and not just saying it made me sick. I didn't say that, you all said that. Pick on me, and I'll say something, I didn't lie. :')
Also... There*

Not to be rude but no one is picking on you. When you enter a topic or forum with opinions and facts don't be surprised for people to question it, debate, oppose your views/facts. I don't think correcting people's typos (which near enough all of us do) is very mature either. Without being rude it appears pretty childish.
_

Anyway away from the food poisoning debate of closed season 2014/15... Going back to the brief mention of Merlin and budgets a page or so back. When it comes to new attractions Merlin do pump a lot of money into these things. It's just the execution of it is very poor. I actually think The Smiler could have been a big breakthrough for Merlin, if the ground works didn't become the mess they did I think would could have seen more theming in place of that, the 'concrete pit' would have never happened and we might have even seen something you could generally define as 'world class'. Arguably I think the ride itself is world class, the music is spot on, although the experience and theme as a whole just isn't realised enough.

Sub-Terra is another project that had a decent enough budget but the execution was poor. Although I do find the final version that we have now a bit of a guilty pleasure.

I believe if money is put in the right places and used wisely Merlin are fully capable of creating world class rides, attractions and creating a world class theme park. Look at what Tussuads achieved in the 90s. They proved as long as clever minds are at the table you can do a hell of a lot with a limited budget.

It is worrying that Merlin seem reluctant to support Towers with TLC for rides, attractions and the rest of the park, and that they do not provide Towers with the budgets they need. Budgets being cut each year really doesn't help departments across the resort either. At the moment Alton Towers and Merlin are coping fine, although how long do they leave it until everything is literally falling apart and guests really do start to turn away... If this Paramount park happens they will really have to up their game that's for sure.

 

[Tarin Maria]

Not to be rude but no one is picking on you. When you enter a topic or forum with opinions and facts don't be surprised for people to question it, debate, oppose your views/facts. I don't think correcting people's typos (which near enough all of us do) is very mature either. Without being rude it appears pretty childish.

Questioning, debating and opposing are different to accusing someone of lying, especially when they didn't.
Now, if anyone has an issue with me, they can take it up in a private message, I will no longer be replying to this topic.
Many thanks.

 

[Dave]

Okay this is just getting silly.

This is a discussion forum, people will want to have and WILL have a discussion. People are getting very rude and tempers are getting high and it is just not acceptable. 95% of the time people discuss quite pleasantly on here and we don't want to see the quality of good discussion fall.

If it carries on this topic will be temporarily locked, and warning/ posting restrictions will be offered to those who don't heed this.

 

[Danny]

Such a shame this isn't a Flamingo Land fansite at present, as we'd have been able to establish an answer to the question very quickly.

 

[Coaster]

I think the general reputation is that it is the best in the UK. BPB hasn't had a proper new ride in 20 years really, although I give them credit for Nickelodeon Land, BPB is also an amusement park , not quite a theme park in the same way as AT.

But Nickelodeon Land had six brand new rides, why aren't we counting them? Also Wallace and Gromit is technically a new ride as the track and carriages are brand new, they just follow the same layout as Goldmine (and the scenery/effects are all new).
Seven new rides from 2011 - 2014 isn't bad really (and a new thrill ride next year). I know it will be ridiculed on here but in my opinion BPB is the only UK park that is world class because of the quality and quantity of rides, attitude to customers and the history - where else can you find coasters that have sat through a world war thrilling riders alongside modern ones? Alton Towers is a good park, but in my opinion it is far from being world class. The entire park needs a major cleanup, operations need to be changed significantly and they need to install some more coasters that are actually thrilling, and last more than a minute.