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Is it over for MMM?

Dave said:
The more curious thing is this is another cut/ closure/ sale of asset announced in a relatively short period of time. Merlin seem to either be struggling financially or blackstone/ Kirkby want more money out of the business.

I think any hope that Merlin was going to be heading in a more positive direction is seeming less likely.
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I think it's less of a cut, and more of a restructuring. Although the mechanism is the same, the result doesn't have to be.

If anything it's freeing up resources.

This thread generally has a certain amount of hypocrisy. There are a few posters who are expressing anger or upset over the potential closure of Studios North, who have been complaining about the general state of Merlin's theming or repairs, or effects, for years. The same things this studio is alleged to be in charge of.

Whilst it is a nice thing to have, possibly to look back on fondly with nostalgia, is it fit for purpose? Is it delivering what Merlin needs, as a whole?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. We've definitely come to a conclusion over the past few years that something is broken, there appears to be some attempt to fix it.
 
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BarryZola said:
I suppose the savings on national insurance and pension payments are attractive for a start. I wonder what else they can outsource? Events teams for the likes of Halloween events and such-like? Scale down the number of events then just get people in to run the big events for a month or whatever. More savings! Any other outsourcing ideas that they havn't tapped into yet? Gotta protect that bottom line. Get drastic Dave Lewis (ex-Tesco) in as a consultant for a few months. He'll show you how to REALLY cut staff down to the bare bones.
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To be fair Scarefest used to be outsourced and a lot of folks on this forum would argue the product was better in those days.

Not that I think it would be if they reverted back.
 
QTXAdsy said:
You mean like second hand military equipment they've been given us as we've seen for Nemesis Reborn, half finished Thirteen building, dogey theming on Smiler and Galactica's...uh, 'theming'. If that's what you mean for 'quality' theming? Honestly other than a few MMM haven't exactly set the world on fire for the most part you have to admit.
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This.

If closing MMM means that the park will work with outside companies that will bring fresh new ideas and not just fall back on the old relliance on shipping containers and/or quasi-millitaristic themes then that's not a bad thing at all. Let's see what a different set of minds and eyes can come up with.
 
Dave said:
Is anyone saying that is the reason?
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Yes:

Shaggy_Dog_ said:
If closing MMM means that the park will work with outside companies that will bring fresh new ideas and not just fall back on the old relliance on shipping containers and/or quasi-millitaristic themes then that's not a bad thing at all.
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Trooper Looper said:
Hopefully this is a sign that we'll get more theming like what was offered in 90s
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[I'm not saying this is or isn't a valid arguement btw]

QTXAdsy said:
You mean like second hand military equipment they've been given us as we've seen for Nemesis Reborn, half finished Thirteen building, dogey theming on Smiler and Galactica's...uh, 'theming'. If that's what you mean for 'quality' theming? Honestly other than a few MMM haven't exactly set the world on fire for the most part you have to admit.
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My comment wasn't intended to throw praise on the work of those affected, just to challenge the bizarre comparison to purchasing burger buns.

FWIW like any vendor they must work to the budget they're given. The only difference is outside vendors can potentially refuse a job if they believe it to be impossible or a risk of damaging their own rep, where an internal resource can't do that so easily.

Their work in the 90s proves the sort of quality they're capable of when funded adequately.

On the other hand, it's now a quarter of a century since Hex and the only thing I can think that they've been involved in during that time which has been any good theming wise is Wickerman, and before that Mutiny Bay - which, if we're honest, was a pretty light reskin of an existing area. If the combination of the budget and the internal resource can't muster a higher quality then from a business perspective it's entirely valid to question where the return-on-investment is supposed to be.

[BTW, I'm also not sure what their involvement has been on any of the attractions listed about - I know larger theming items have always been outsourced by my understanding has been that Studios North/MMM would have been the ones doing the outsourcing]

What is a little upsetting to reflect upon is what Pearson/Tussauds clearly intended by setting up an in-house theme park theming unit located on site at their flagship park - they truly were aspiring to Disney Imagineer levels of investment, OK they never got there or anything like it but it was a stake in the ground.

Accepting they're not getting value from that internal resource 30 years on is sad, and is yet another sign that Alton Towers (and to a lesser extent CWoA, who Studios North were setup to support albeit not with the same level of proximity) are not the flag bearing high quality products they once were.
 
Surely if it’s just the theming manufacture studio at Alton Towers closing, it shouldn’t make much difference to the output?

As far as I’m aware, the design team at Merlin Magic Making will be unchanged. Also, many of the recent projects have used external suppliers. Wicker Man used Universal Rocks, for example, and I know Merlin have used Scruffy Dog before as well.
 
It's a cut, but one that probably won't make much difference. Not to say that is a good thing. Thirteen for example has been left to disintergrate, as have many other things. If they won't budget for the artists to make the few hundred-yard journey to touch things up, then I can't se this becoming more likely with external contractors coming in to do maintenance.

It is hard enough to justify touching theming up as it has no direct cost-benefit which can be claimed against budget. You would think a team on a retainer like MMM would be more likely to be awarded touch-up jobs than contractors.
 
The large projects involve multiple external suppliers/companies/creatives working collaboratively with MMM. So, I see little change to any future projects (if Merlin decides to continue to invest similarly).

I imagine, if anything, this will affect the smaller projects (TLC to Hex) and events (Scarefest/Christmas, etc.). However, the option will be there to go to external companies anyway.

You could argue that the loss of this part of MMM prevents touch-ups to existing theming. But given the decaying state of many theming pieces across the park, I wonder if this makes a difference. You simply need to walk around Th13teen to see that once it's built, it's left to rot.

It will be more telling of how Merlin is moving forward when it comes to future investments. Will they be willing to pump money into theming? Or will we be going back in time when corrugated metal and water cans spray painted were ‘theming’? Merlin has never been big on theming, but I feel they've improved over the years when you compare the likes of The Smiler to Wicker Man or the Nemesis creature. With cuts coming in thick, will they see the value in continuing down this route? Or will we see more stylised ‘theming’ like seen on Hyperia?
 
You have to wonder if those higher up were a bit miffed at the efforts into Curse and Forbidden Valley. Curse in particular was not universally well received outside of enthusiast circles. I assume the station efforts of Wickerman and Nemesis have been externally sourced which are a million times better than anything that's in Curse or the gun in the Nemesis queue line. I even question whether adding the flume Duck to Curse and the graves of past rides were lifted off this very forum.
Also think it was lazy to continue the theme from sub terra, a ride that was closed more than it operated into FV.
 
RIPCorky said:
You have to wonder if those higher up were a bit miffed at the efforts into Curse and Forbidden Valley. Curse in particular was not universally well received outside of enthusiast circles. I assume the station efforts of Wickerman and Nemesis have been externally sourced which are a million times better than anything that's in Curse or the gun in the Nemesis queue line. I even question whether adding the flume Duck to Curse and the graves of past rides were lifted off this very forum.
Also think it was lazy to continue the theme from sub terra, a ride that was closed more than it operated into FV.
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This video sums up Merlin's thoughts to MMM as to what you just said regarding their efforts.
 
RIPCorky said:
You have to wonder if those higher up were a bit miffed at the efforts into Curse and Forbidden Valley. Curse in particular was not universally well received outside of enthusiast circles. I assume the station efforts of Wickerman and Nemesis have been externally sourced which are a million times better than anything that's in Curse or the gun in the Nemesis queue line. I even question whether adding the flume Duck to Curse and the graves of past rides were lifted off this very forum.
Also think it was lazy to continue the theme from sub terra, a ride that was closed more than it operated into FV.
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The issue here being that all the projects you've mentioned here were either completely or significantly outsourced. So the general message here is that outsourcing does not guarantee consistent quality or success.

It is a dangerous game to play to make assumption about what is the work of the in house MMM teams and what is outsourced.

I think one of the issues we're running into here is that a lot of the actual work carried out by Merlin Magic Making/Studio North fly under the radar, because most projects do have some level of outsourcing involved because there are lots of specialist production involved.
 
I’m not sure anyone would want to buy the lease for Alton Towers at the moment.

As for the arguments of not making a difference whether projects are outsourced or delivered in house, it’s totally theoretical. If you pay the right amount to the right company, you can of course deliver top quality themed entertainment. Is that what Merlin are doing here? I don’t think so.

I’ll refer you to a direct quote from Merlin in attempting to justify this decision:

“Outsourcing theming production fits with our global strategy - we don’t plan to make it a core area of expertise”.
 
With regards to the suggestion that the budget will just be spent externally instead - maybe, initially, yes - but accountants will always find it far easier to justify budget reductions without redundancies than with redundancies - the mere fact they had an internal team who would otherwise be sat idle meant that it was harder for them to justify a cut; and easier to make a business case which keeps them busy. Swap that out for external spend and higher ups can potentially just arbitrarily cut spend - and as with all these hideous cuts we've had in the past, the problems that causes will be years down the line.

Not saying this is what will happen - but it doesn't automatically follow that 'expensive internal resource elimination means more cheaper stuff available externally'.
 
RIPCorky said:
You have to wonder if those higher up were a bit miffed at the efforts into Curse and Forbidden Valley. Curse in particular was not universally well received outside of enthusiast circles. I assume the station efforts of Wickerman and Nemesis have been externally sourced which are a million times better than anything that's in Curse or the gun in the Nemesis queue line. I even question whether adding the flume Duck to Curse and the graves of past rides were lifted off this very forum.
Also think it was lazy to continue the theme from sub terra, a ride that was closed more than it operated into FV.
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Curse was well received, my understanding is it has scored well so I doubt that’s the issue.
 
Ash said:
It won’t be.

The clowns don’t realise they run a theme park. Not an amusement fair.

Who’s going to put together the scare mazes? The pirates half term? Who is going to fix items that may be broken? God forbid who is going to add something new to an attraction just to improve it?

Do they think it will just deliver itself?

Studios North has existed for what 30 years? Without issue. And all of a sudden the clowns running the circus think they’ve cracked a new way to run the business?

Good luck to them
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....and times change, people change and operations change, doesn't mean it will be the end of the world.
 
Jb85 said:
Seems like they are readying a sale / breakup of assets
Keep the Lego operations sell the rest ?
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Problem is, apart from some nonsense private equity who’ll buy it and run it right?

It needs to be privately owned and be able to plan for the long term. Like tussauds used to do.

They’d want to buy back the land and get control of the lot.

I’d rather universal buy Alton, Thorpe and Chessington rather than build a new park.
 
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