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London Entertainment Resort: All Discussion

Jb85 said:
It will only work with some decent public transport connections. The drive from the midlands would be a jaunt for instance- imagine being further north ?
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Well that's just the thing... I think so many don't understand how well it is connected with public transport and the North. Say your in B'ham... You walk 6 mins from Euston to St. Panc station (2 mins for Kings Cross) and get one of the high speed trains which leave about every 10 mins or so. That journey then is 15 mins max with only one other stop (Stratford international). The connecting transport from ebbsfleet international would then be the start of your experience as I would expect a bus or monorail/light train service for the last mile.

For those by car if your from the North it's a well known fact that traffic only is bad going through the tunnels normally (north bound). So I'd expect lots of afternoon and evening entertainment so by the time your ready to travel the roads will be alot clearer. Bluewater has managed very well with traffic and with the new tunnel coming I would expect more options to help deliver more capacity.
 
Before we get too off topic (because Birmingham is clearly in the Midlands, learn geography people ;) ) I used to think the site was a good location but the more I think about it the less sense it makes.

The public transport links are good, but only a small percentage of guests will arrive by public transport. With the exception of inner city parks I can’t think of a single Theme Park that have most of its guests arrive by car. Even the oversees Disney parks which have very good public transport links still have the majority of their guests arrive by car. Not to mention that trains around London can be very expensive! Sure it might make sense for a Londoner but not if you are paying to go through London, twice.

So most people are still going to arrive by car, and by car it’s a poor location. One of the main reasons the Thames Estuary Air Port (Boris Island) hasn’t been built is because the location would force more traffic around London. Heathrow doesn’t have this problem because 3 of the country’s most important motorways (M3 South West, M4 West & Wales and M40 Midlands) all Terminate near Heathrow. The only area the East of London serves is London and potentially a few international tourists (a few percent of guests at most).
 
Tim said:
Before we get too off topic (because Birmingham is clearly in the Midlands, learn geography people ;) ) I used to think the site was a good location but the more I think about it the less sense it makes.

The public transport links are good, but only a small percentage of guests will arrive by public transport. With the exception of inner city parks I can’t think of a single Theme Park that have most of its guests arrive by car. Even the oversees Disney parks which have very good public transport links still have the majority of their guests arrive by car. Not to mention that trains around London can be very expensive! Sure it might make sense for a Londoner but not if you are paying to go through London, twice.

So most people are still going to arrive by car, and by car it’s a poor location. One of the main reasons the Thames Estuary Air Port (Boris Island) hasn’t been built is because the location would force more traffic around London. Heathrow doesn’t have this problem because 3 of the country’s most important motorways (M3 South West, M4 West & Wales and M40 Midlands) all Terminate near Heathrow. The only area the East of London serves is London and potentially a few international tourists (a few percent of guests at most).
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Hi Tim, I'd have to disagree with you on most of the points raised. But that's what debate is about. With the new tunnel being built, and the 11 million people in London plus the rest of the South East I think the road network will both cope and is capable of really delivering. If Alton can deal with most of its traffic being by car, this will easily cope. I hope that 25% of the foot traffic would be by public transport because it is so easy and fast to get to. Bluewater serves a large area and has few traffic issues... It has 13,000 car parking spaces with upto 60 buses an hour. That's more than Alton gets in a week. Yes this park is on a larger scale than Alton, but for a park that wants a large population on its doorstep, with great transport links that's looking to the future I think it's a great location.

WDW is so vast people choose to take the car to visit other resorts and theme parks. Yes transport is good but it is often highlightes it's slow, and difficult between resorts.
 
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Controversial opinion.

It would be nice for this to go ahead, but I suspect the hype, the advertising budget, the prestigious use of IP's, etc, would see it overrated in the short term.

I would like to think the market is big enough for both, BUT, I would not want to see AT run out of business, by a cut and paste American theme park, with a massively higher marketing budget and the right contacts.

Hmm, 100 million pound dark ride, (think Rattatouille) or all the Secret Weapons. I'd take a series of 12 To 18 million pound (allegedly) investments anyday.

Would be lovely to have both, BUT if it came down to it, I'd rather have AT (Ideally run a little better than at the moment).

It's quintessentially British, it's utterly unique, its steeped in history, has amazing gardens, landscaping and architecture, with well thought out superbly designed coasters, that are fun and use the environment better than elsewhere.

You can keep your plastic castles, have a nice day culture, upsell that makes Merlin look like a bunch of amateurs, cookie cutter IP's and number chasing coasters.

If it comes down to this OR AT, I'd rather have AT.

Of course, if the market is big, enough and the competition generates investments and innovation, then I'll take both.

I'm not sure it is.

There are loads of people who think that McDonalds is the best food ever. It isn't - without the budget, the advertising, the product ruthless placement, the targeting of impressionable kids, people would see if for what it is.

AT is unique, different and ours.

We should be careful what we wish for... we may get it!
 
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Altonadvocate1 said:
Controversial opinion.

It would be nice for this to go ahead, but I suspect the hype, the advertising budget, the prestigious use of IP's, etc, would see it overrated in the short term.

I would like to think the market is big enough for both, BUT, I would not want to see AT run out of business, by a cut and paste American theme park, with a massively higher marketing budget and the right contacts.

Hmm, 100 million pound dark ride, (think Rattatouille) or all the Secret Weapons. I'd take a series of 12 To 18 million pound (allegedly) investments anyday.

Would be lovely to have both, BUT if it came down to it, I'd rather have AT (Ideally run a little better than at the moment).

It's quintessentially British, it's utterly unique, its steeped in history, has amazing gardens, landscaping and architecture, with well thought out superbly designed coasters, that are fun and use the environment better than elsewhere.

You can keep your plastic castles, have a nice day culture, upsell that makes Merlin look like a bunch of amateurs, cookie cutter IP's and number chasing coasters.

If it comes down to this OR AT, I'd rather have AT.

Of course, if the market is big, enough and the competition generates investments and innovation, then I'll take both.

I'm not sure it is.

There are loads of people who think that McDonalds is the best food ever. It isn't - without the budget, the advertising, the product ruthless placement, the targeting of impressionable kids, people would see if for what it is.

AT is unique, different and ours.

We should be careful what we wish for... we may get it!
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I'm sure that even when London Resort opens, Alton Towers and the other UK theme parks will coexist alongside it for many years to come! Parks of this scale, if not greater than this scale, have been built in areas with existing theme parks before. For example, Parc Asterix and Jardin D'Acclimatation are still successful alongside Disneyland Paris. The likes of Nagashima Spa Land and Fuji-Q Highland still do good business alongside Tokyo Disneyland and Universal Studios Japan. The likes of Six Flags Magic Mountain and Knott's Berry Farm are still successful alongside Disneyland and Universal Studios Hollywood. I could name many more examples, but the point I'm trying to get across is that no matter how well London Resort does when it opens, it will almost definitely not wipe out Alton Towers or any other significant UK theme park. The way I see it is that London Resort will provide a very different sort of experience to anything else in the UK.

For example, let's view the UK like Central Florida for a second. When it opens, London Resort will be like the Disney/Universal, Merlin's parks (and possibly a few others e.g. BPB) will be like the Busch Gardens/SeaWorld and the smaller parks will be like the Fun Spot properties. All of these coexist together very nicely in a US state similar in size to the UK, so I don't see why London Resort couldn't coexist alongside the UK's other theme parks.
 
Matt N said:
let's view the UK like Central Florida for a second. When it opens, London Resort will be like the Disney/Universal, Merlin's parks (and possibly a few others e.g. BPB) will be like the Busch Gardens/SeaWorld and the smaller parks will be like the Fun Spot properties. All of these coexist together very nicely in a US state similar in size to the UK, so I don't see why London Resort couldn't coexist alongside the UK's other theme parks.
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But Florida is an international destination well known for that and parks cluster there deliberately. They earn business of each other's proximities. This isn't the case with the UK

Having said that I dont think it will wipe out Alton Towers just by existing

Why I have never been a fan of this London project is it's just 'globalisation', it's a cut and paste generic park like you could expect to see anywhere in the US, it's a money project from investors abroad who probably want to develop the place and then ditch it.

Almost every aging town centre has been redeveloped by the same practices and it's boring, it's flash in the pan. The public get sold on it and think it's a sign of modernisation, 'finally we have parks like Disney/Universal', but something unique would be far greater and more successful in the long run.

Merlin desperately needs a competitor, but all this will do for competition is persuade Merlin to go even further in the corporate IP brand direction to compete, rather than become more original.
 
I'm sure the merlin owned parks would be able to compete with the London Resort.

However if they do struggle it's only their own fault, they've effectively had a monopoly in this country for over a decade and during this time for the most part they've failed to significantly invest in the parks (especially the last 5 years or so) to their detriment which is clearly effecting attendance figures and customer satisfaction. I mean you look at the new rides and investments going on at similarly established parks in the likes of France, Belgium, Netherlands, and Germany where parks have genuine competition for business so any new major companies investing in the UK can only be good from that perspective.
 
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When you say copy and paste... That's Merlin and towers full stop. Dungeons, sea life, even ride types. And how much original theming are we getting? Chessington is basically books, and towers is whatever they can get their hands on. (Let's not even mention A land at Thorpe). Alton could be a fantastic day out but unless serious cash is spent it's had its glory days. It offers very little for return custom at the moment and is hardly a leading light in the UK when it shuts at 4. If it continues it will become a regional park, not national. I've already had friends stop going because they have heard of the cutbacks.
 
The thing is as well the parks in Florida compliment each other for most people. I mean how many Brits go to Florida just to do Disney or Universal? A few must, but nearly everyone I've met who has been there, has been to both in the same holiday at one point

If this place ever gets built it won't affect Towers and Blackpool too badly. It'd a lot easier for people in The Midlands and North to go there for the day than it is to get to Dartford (not to mention probably cheaper too). I think with this place as others have mentioned is that the location is in an awkward bit of the country for most people to get to and I'm guessing that they may be looking for international visitors too. However with that, I wouldn't get why people would make the effort driving there from Europe to get the ferry or train through the tunnel where they can already get to other places far more easily and potentially quicker.

And tourists who are visiting London probably wouldn't go either. I mean people don't really consider Disneyland (or rarely consider) when they visit Paris proper. And I say that those who do would only do it because it's Disney. Would they visit Asterix? Most likely not. And in London are there that many people who just want to go see the sights and go to Thorpe? I'm gonna guess no.

Unless you've already got a popular tourist destination where theme parks are a big attraction (think Florida and also PA to some extent) or it's just that convenient (I.e Tivoli and Liseberg), then you won't get a lot of international visitors. Which is why I think if a new park is ever built in this country it would need to somewhere North of London to bring in a lot of domestic visitors. For example if you built a new park near South Birmingham, you have great road access, an airport, and a good rail service that links up a lot of the country.
 
They could just build it near Corby and have special trains shuttling back and forth from St Pancras in London. Oh, wait, I think they already tried that back in the 80s.
 
Jonathan said:
They could just build it near Corby and have special trains shuttling back and forth from St Pancras in London. Oh, wait, I think they already tried that back in the 80s.
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Are you talking about what eventually turned into Rockingham Motor Speedway? Yeah that ended well didn't it, from potential theme park to fastest race track in Europe to a car park, what a glorious end for the site.
 
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