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Major Operational Changes for 2018

I really don't know why everyone is rejoicing on FB over the revised ride opening times, they are certainly singing Alton praises for doing so.

Flash back to this time last year when everyone was kicking up a fuss with the park opening 30mins later than usual. This did get reversed with DF opening at 10.30am. Despite the reverse decision today, to me this years opening times are still worse than last years proposed 30mins later opening time :rolleyes:
 
Ok it's not perfect but any sort of backtrack on their original decision is a bonus I suppose.

What annoys me most is that Towers have to create a public backlash to force their parent company to support them better.

If Vardey and chums and the shareholders had an ounce of sense they'd have made 2018 the year that AT turned it's fortunes around, especially with the attraction of a new coaster. This should be the year that people would be leaving the park wanting to return and do it again and again. It's too late now unfortunately.
 
RoyJess said:
I really don't know why everyone is rejoicing on FB over the revised ride opening times, they are certainly singing Alton praises for doing so.
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Almost like it was planned this way.

Austin Towers said:
This should be the year that people would be leaving the park wanting to return and do it again and again. It's too late now unfortunately.
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No, it's not. The season doesn't start for over a month.
 
Dar said:
Too little, too late. They can shove their wooden coaster, and their season pass, where the sun doesn't sun.

I can't believe people let them treat them with such contempt, and then celebrate when the world's second, only to Disney, largest operator whines that they can't possibly get everything checked and opened for 10am, but they'll try really, really hard to get it done for 11.

Pathetic.
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^^ THIS

Alton Towers is supposed to be the UK's flagship theme park?!?! I'm sorry, but it's simply not good enough. Staggered opening between 10am and 11am *might* be swallowable if the closing time wasn't such a joke. The short number of hours the park is open is the main reason it simply isn't worth a 6hr round trip to go for the day. The expense of the hotels and poor quality means I don't want to stay overnight anymore either.
(It's also not feasable to check the ride status in the morning before setting off)

It should be: 9.30am limited ERT.
All rides open at 10am, close at 6pm, a full 8hr day.
If needs be, consider closing CBeebies Land earlier at 5pm instead of opening other rides so late.
(The demographic that's aimed at will be taking their tired hungry kiddiwinks off for dinner by then)

I know everyone says that park numbers dwindle late afternoon so there's no reason to stay open to 6 or 7pm, but the question there then is WHY? Why do people leave early?

People cut their lossess when they're not having an enjoyable time. You stay longer when you don't actually want to leave! Or when there is some incentive to remain, eg fireworks, Disney Dreams show etc etc.
People think about how long their journey home is, and where they're going to get a bite to eat for dinner. I can't recall AT ever encouraging non-hotel guests to stay and eat at the hotel restaurants for example. Yet we do this at EP all the time.
Past experience. There is nothing more depressing at the end of a great day than a massive queue to leave on the monorail, so setting off that little bit earlier to avoid congestion on it and out of the car parks might avoid that.

And numbers aren't the pure reason to cut the hours. So much is psychological, which of course doesn't fit neatly onto a spreadsheet but it truly does matter.
If you tell someone that the park is open 10am - 7pm, maybe they won't stay that long but in their minds they know they can. They can have a full day, they can go on a lot of rides. They can afford to take that time for an extra cup of coffee or eat a meal, they don't feel pressured, they don't feel rushed. And probably, they will end up staying later than intended. And certainly they will come back.
Tell someone the park is only fully open 12am - 4pm... They're not going to have a full day. Doubtful they'll get on all the rides they'd like. Not without FastTrack that you definitely need, but have to pay for on top of your entry. There's no time to eat leisurely, so you grab the poor fast food offerings and regret it. When the park kicks you out you pay the £6 car parking charge and leave with a nasty feeling you've been ripped off. Next time, they won't be coming at all. At best they might with a voucher or clubcard points, but certainly not at full price. They'll be the first ones to complain to their friends about it too.

Cuts to the end product that you're asking people to pay their money for can only go so far and they hit that wall long ago. It doesn't matter how cheap or expensive something is, if people feel they are getting value for what they've paid they will always be happy to pay that bit more. I mean, an AT season pass is cheaper than going to a West End show in London, but I'm willing to pay for the latter over the former because I know I'm going to be entertained a top notch polished product.

The only thing tiding AT over at the moment is brand name and sentiment. Times are tough on everyone at the moment, people are spending carefully. So if you want to make sure that money goes on your park, rather than on someone elses attraction, you have to offer more and you have to offer better.
 
Result! Just proves that if enough people protest, Towers will U-turn!
 
It was the plan all along Matt, just classic "propose more drastic changes" and roll back to the original plan if people protest too much, even the Government do it every time they want to make a policy change,

Cynic mode off, so if someone uses a 2-4-1 and gets in for £27.50 and wants a annual pass, they take the ticket and a pile of dosh and pay the difference at the annual pass building before leaving (like at Thorpe), yes?
 
We know that Merlin are very challenging theme park operators. What does this mean? Typically, that if a park is doing well, and has lots of guests, that by-and-large (with exception to perhaps some obvious efficiency savings, which is standard in any organisation), the park receives a budget to match. It kind of makes sense, in a very 2D sort of way. Then, if a park does badly, the budget drops accordingly to match how that park is doing. Sadly, the performance of other parks in the group also impact the budget at Alton Towers - and it's no secret that Thorpe haven't really done that well for years, and Heide-Park certainly aren't doing well at all. All of this will impact the RTP division - no matter how well the midways, or Lego parks - are doing.

It is no secret that Alton Towers has gone from being a 2.9m-guests-a-year theme park in 2014, to one that is roughly 1m guests lower by 2016, and 2017 seemed to be somewhat similar. The park is effectively 1/3 down on numbers. It stands to reason that this is going to cause significant issues to the bottom line for the park. It is highly likely that Alton Towers didn't actually make an operating profit in 2015, 2016 or 2017. Of course, it may have made a small one - I have no idea. But it certainly wouldn't have been anything like what it made in 2014 - when numbers were really quite high.

So, simply put - park does badly, Merlin cuts the budget. Easy to understand. Yes.

But - then there's the whole argument of - 'well, if they want to get numbers back up again, they need to increase investment and make the product even better' But... Merlin simply do not operate like this. For whatever reason.

As a result: Easter 2018 is massively important. The marketing for the new ride has simply got to get the guests in. Then, we should see a rise in guests and get Alton Towers back up to the mid 2m mark (2.3-2.7m) per year. If that happens, then when the next cost base is put out (excuse the language, I am no business analyst) - then Alton Towers will find itself with more money to spend. Because, boy do they need it.

Today has shown that the park will look and respond to things and of course, it's still not what we really want, which is a park opening everything at 10am. But similarly, it's better than it was going to be - and if they can actually make a fist of extending hours more flexibly, perhaps things can only improve from here.

But of course, they could get worse still. Because, you know. Merlin.
 
AstroDan said:
We know that Merlin are very challenging theme park operators. What does this mean? Typically, that if a park is doing well, and has lots of guests, that by-and-large (with exception to perhaps some obvious efficiency savings, which is standard in any organisation), the park receives a budget to match. It kind of makes sense, in a very 2D sort of way. Then, if a park does badly, the budget drops accordingly to match how that park is doing. Sadly, the performance of other parks in the group also impact the budget at Alton Towers - and it's no secret that Thorpe haven't really done that well for years, and Heide-Park certainly aren't doing well at all. All of this will impact the RTP division - no matter how well the midways, or Lego parks - are doing.

It is no secret that Alton Towers has gone from being a 2.9m-guests-a-year theme park in 2014, to one that is roughly 1m guests lower by 2016, and 2017 seemed to be somewhat similar. The park is effectively 1/3 down on numbers. It stands to reason that this is going to cause significant issues to the bottom line for the park. It is highly likely that Alton Towers didn't actually make an operating profit in 2015, 2016 or 2017. Of course, it may have made a small one - I have no idea. But it certainly wouldn't have been anything like what it made in 2014 - when numbers were really quite high.

So, simply put - park does badly, Merlin cuts the budget. Easy to understand. Yes.

But - then there's the whole argument of - 'well, if they want to get numbers back up again, they need to increase investment and make the product even better' But... Merlin simply do not operate like this. For whatever reason.

As a result: Easter 2018 is massively important. The marketing for the new ride has simply got to get the guests in. Then, we should see a rise in guests and get Alton Towers back up to the mid 2m mark (2.3-2.7m) per year. If that happens, then when the next cost base is put out (excuse the language, I am no business analyst) - then Alton Towers will find itself with more money to spend. Because, boy do they need it.

Today has shown that the park will look and respond to things and of course, it's still not what we really want, which is a park opening everything at 10am. But similarly, it's better than it was going to be - and if they can actually make a fist of extending hours more flexibly, perhaps things can only improve from here.

But of course, they could get worse still. Because, you know. Merlin.
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Eloquently put!

This is what I've been trying to get across to somebody earlier today. Just because we might throw loads of cash at it (in Merlin's position) doesn't mean they will. Although it looks like they may have budged a little and they needed to. The park is still in dire straits though and needs a HUGE year this year with Merlin already saying they're going to be cutting back on investments in the coming years.
 
It is not good that Merlin is now such a large organisation.

It is highly likely that some area of Merlin's business will be doing badly at any one time. It's by virtue of the fact they have so many attractions, and different markets around the world will go through different phases.

My main anxiety over the future of Alton Towers is that if the park, say, does well this year - and guest numbers rise 10-20%, but Thorpe Park do badly. Or Heide-Park flounder. Or whatever... then Alton Towers will see no benefit from their improvements...
 
AstroDan said:
It is not good that Merlin is now such a large organisation.

It is highly likely that some area of Merlin's business will be doing badly at any one time. It's by virtue of the fact they have so many attractions, and different markets around the world will go through different phases.

My main anxiety over the future of Alton Towers is that if the park, say, does well this year - and guest numbers rise 10-20%, but Thorpe Park do badly. Or Heide-Park flounder. Or whatever... then Alton Towers will see no benefit from their improvements...
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I get the impression that they wish they didn't own it. They make more profit from parks less than half the size I bet. AT is such a great location and setting for a park, however I can imagine it's not very cost effective to run with it being so vast.

Who could you see you possibly coming in and taking it off their hands though? I'm struggling to suggest anyone in the industry so that only leaves private investment.
 
Still don' like it even in this "improved" form they couldn't careless about people who have supported them and there attractions they just want there money. These changes along with the other changes set to be introduced ( standard passes ) and the extra money for pmap means I will no longer be spending my money with them. I will not renew, i will not buy anything while at our local attractions and I will put that money on a trip to DLP and Europa. And when I say I won' spend a penny I won' even use there map refill drinks. To little to late. I mean lets behonest what they've changed it to still screws MAP holders...only now instead of going dry and hard there spitting on it first. It leaves WAY to much open and up for discussion. And I would like to know before have that if I make a 5 hour trip with the family what time the park will close! 6? 5? 2??? It' all bs
 
Since they announced the reduced opening times it looks like Merlin's share price has fallen by 30p, which has wiped around 8% off the share price. It's possible that they always planned to reverse some of the cuts, but I recon this U turn could be unplanned. Some disgruntled enthusiasts on a forum probably doesn't have much impact, but when 8% disappears off your company value in the space of a few days, it's a bit disappointing.

https://www.merlinentertainments.biz/share-price-information

The whole British theme park industry's in a bad way. I was hoping that with Icon, SW8, Paulton's expansion and various other developments, the UK industry could make a real come back. It saddens me to say that I don't see this happening now.
 
Funcone said:
Since they announced the reduced opening times it looks like Merlin's share price has fallen by 30p, which has wiped around 8% off the share price. It's possible that they always planned to reverse some of the cuts, but I recon this U turn could be unplanned. Some disgruntled enthusiasts on a forum probably doesn't have much impact, but when 8% disappears off your company value in the space of a few days, it's a bit disappointing.
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I know very little about stocks and shares but Merlin's share price has been falling continuously since the 16th of this month. It's nothing abnormal in general trading conditions no matter the business or whats happening with it. It seems unlikely to me the opening time fiasco had any noticeable impact.
 
AstroDan said:
it's no secret that Thorpe haven't really done that well for years, and Heide-Park certainly aren't doing well at all. All of this will impact the RTP division - no matter how well the midways, or Lego parks - are doing.
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I have never quite understood why in recent years Thorpe have been doing so badly.

Whenever I have visited it is always incredibly busy.

I suppose the only problem they have is the irresponsible amount of funds invested into both incarnations of their Ghost Train. To get a return, they would need a titanic amount of guests.
 
Teammaddiz said:
I know very little about stocks and shares but Merlin's share price has been falling continuously since the 16th of this month. It's nothing abnormal in general trading conditions no matter the business or whats happening with it. It seems unlikely to me the opening time fiasco had any noticeable impact.
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Yes, you're right actually. Since this was page 23 I was fooled into thinking that they announced this longer ago than they did. But since they only announced it a few days ago my theory doesn't really work.
 
WickerManiac said:
I have never quite understood why in recent years Thorpe have been doing so badly.

Whenever I have visited it is always incredibly busy.
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From what I understand, nobody spends any decent money when they're actually in there. It doesn't attract a family or short-break market like Alton or Chessington do, and it has a large Season Pass base that keeps attendance high, but capital low. I imagine that Fright Nights and Fastrack keep it bouyant.

Eesh, what a mess.
 
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