Major Ride Closures 2016

[Leah]

Disneyland Paris have more rides out of the line up, for more time including the main attractions, and I don't see as many people complaining about that, its for the same reasons, they rides that are closed do need TLC.

Whilst I understand what you mean, I don't think it's a fair comparison. Dlp are (as far as I know) communicating with people that these rides will reopen for a certain date (unlike towers, where we have no idea if the remaining rides will reopen, or when). Also, this is an Alton towers forum, fewer members will care that the rides at DLP will be closed a couple of months. dlp gave notice of the closures, it wasn't like towers just announcing about two weeks before the season started.

Merlin have produced some great theming... Thirteen, Sub terra, Ice Age,

Really? I won't argue that merlin have had some great rides but I can't say many rides are heavily themed (unless you count shipping containers). I think the reason merlin are criticised is because they put money over experience - in all their parks you feel like they're trying to get every last penny from you, that they're trying to sell you something at every moment.

I agree with your overall post @Ryan B, just not those points. Not trying to be argumentative, promise

 

[MaxPower]

I post purely in jest

 

[Sm1lingAdvocate]

yeah, some rides have good theming (The Swarm, DBGT from what we've seen and all the coasters pretty much, but then we have Sub Terra and Cloud Cuckoo Land, and The attempted Hippy themed thing at Thorpe park that shall not be named, there is good, and there is bad.

 

[Imagination]

All the coasters? Our rides have the bare minimum spent on them in terms of area aesthetics and ride theme/theming.

• Swarm...yes it has some theming but it is not of international quality and the entire area isn't as immersive as it could be. The story? Hang on...what?
  
• The Smiler, great creativity and great theme but cuts meant, yes, we got the minimum and again, apart from the marmaliser, the rest is just bog standard, no second structure and no offload station... plus no plaza. The whole area of X Sector being the Ministry of Joy's playground wasn't even considered or dreamt up by Merlin!
  
• Zufari, great idea and has been done well in the US parks but cuts meant we got one cave and not even a themed roof...let alone a short lived pre-show, awful queue and just half of a ride!!
  
• SAW, well, they would have had to have a quality with the whole ride because of the IP agreement but I still think, given to another park, we could have had a much more immersive experience.
  
• None of the merlin created roller coasters with a theme are executed exceptionally well in the UK, each roller coaster Th13teen, Smiler, Swarm and Runaway train just fail to deliver a rich story, immersive area and the amount of money spent on the ride vs the amount it actually deserved is so clear to see.

The problem is that Merlin don't care about their visitors becoming lost in their "magical worlds" and there's no active vision or effort by merlin to create these amazing, lavishly themed and rich rides, they just care about visitors spending the absolute maximum they can whilst at their attractions.

Enchanted Village expansion but no water park expansion? Rides closed masked as TLC? No entertainments budget? An ATH hotel expansion but no Spa expansion? All of these factors scream to us that they just aren't interested...and the enchanted village and ATH hotel expansions will make them far more profit in the long run than the water park or expanded Spa would...

Company profit over guest experience. End of.

If they are the second biggest operator and compare themselves to other branded premier parks then start acting like a second biggest operator with justified comparisons to other parks.

Disney parks have had a lot of cuts (especially WDW and it's entertainments) too and the experience has been wobbly these past few years...but the money they spend on their parks is clear to see on the front line and you can feel that value for money.

Alton, Thorpe and Chessington? The way Merlin are going means if Paramount open (with what's planned) and Merlin don't take action then they're fudged.

 

[UserDeleted]

I really hope that Paramount do open.


- The competition will make Merlin pull their finger out and keep them on their toes.

- Merlin don't pull their finger out and Paramount buy Towers.

 

[AndrewH]

I think Merlin get a lot of unfair stick on here and that a lot of people are stuck in a fantasy world and instantly point the finger at Merlin the second things go wrong.

First they are a business not a charity. The reason they exist is to make money so you can't blame them for taking steps to do this. Do they sometimes take things too far? Absolutely. But the majority of what they do is perfectly reasonable. For example the entry price. £25 (with 2 for 1) I would say is a very reasonable price for a day out and pretty competitive with other theme parks around the world. And I know the actual entry price is over £50 but very very few people ever pay that and it encourages people to come because they are getting a much better deal. Can you really blame them for that? They need to make money to invest money. Although I am not saying it wouldn't be better if the price was cheaper on the day you can hardly blame them.

People complaining about the smilers lack of theming is a real pet hate of mine as well. People jump straight onto Merlin for not implementing the proposed theming but it wasn't their fault. The contractors completely cocked up the ground works leaving the project over budget. Merlin had a budget for the ride which was quite large to be fair and you surly can't expect them to magic up some additional money out of thin air to pay for it! They had to cut something so they made the sacrifice.

Merlin are trying there best to both make the park great and make money and pre smiler crash (another thing out of there control) I would argue they were succeeding they had regular large investment cycle with 2 very good quality rides doing exactly what they tried to do (even if the former was let down by ridiculous marketing) they even tried (even if they didn't succeed) at a dark filler ride and they had brought in huge numebers of guests for the smiler. Although they are not perfect and I am under no illusion that they are (food is over priced and diabolical quality for example) but a lot of people seem to look at the park as if they are on rct3 on sandbox mode making every aspect perfect regardless of cost and without any share holders to answer to.

 

[Sm1lingAdvocate]

Even though they aren't the best in Europe, all the Merlin parks dominate the UK market, and we aren't going to see much better theming at other UK parks. For theming, They have done a good job, in my opinion. Sure it could be better, but it could also be a lot worse. Who knows, TLC could bring some more theming!

 

[Benzin]

Paultons' new dinosaur area has better theming (rockwork) AND advertising than anything Merlin have done...

It looks immersive, bright and full of things for the target audience to do, and for what, a third of the Derren Brown ride?

Other parks spend money wisely, I don't think Merlin realise this at all... Why can Phantasialand build Taron and Klugheim? Why are rides left to rot until they cannot be saved but destroyed?

Promises of the future are not the now... 2018 is two seasons away, and what will happen if this year and the next people continue to stay away? More cuts? More closures for 'the future'? It's an uncertain path Merlin are treading...

 

[rob666]

Andrew, agree with most of what you say apart from one glaring point...
The Smiler accident, beyond Merlin's control?
No, they are to blame,
have already admitted as much,
have taken a number of measures to make sure there is no repeat,
and have made financial amends to the victims.
If they aren't to blame for the incident,
who exactly was?

And blaming the contractors for the way the Smiler ended up is a bit mean,
the foundations were laid in one of the wettest spells in decades,
I know 'cos I was trying to maintain gardens in the bloody rain at the time!

The planned plaza would have been an amazing feature and experience for non riders,
but was scrapped in the rush to get the ride open.

 

[kris3012]

This has gone O/T but comparing budgets between parks isn't accurate one thing towers has to deal with which most don't if the land layout and height restrictions etc meaning a good chunk of any budget is already gone just to create a ride must park wouldn't need to ( Nemesis pit, Oblivions hole and smilers pit) all of which would have cost a vast amount of money
Also there other factors than need to be taken into account like the condition imposed on planning being granted I.e repairing the old buildings etc etc
These will all be part of the budget in some way


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DiogoJ42]

Saying a ride is "well themed... for the UK" is like saying someone "can run pretty fast... for a fat guy with no legs". Sure, it's a miracle they can do it at all, given their unfortunate start in life, but they won't be winning any medals when they race the world record holders.

 

[rob666]

And in the land of the blind,
the one eyed man is king.
Christ be praised and god bless.

 

[Rick]

Company profit over guest experience. End of.

The two things go hand in hand, you can't look at them exclusively. You have to strike a balance between the two, or you face making no money because guest experience is so poor and nobody visits (American Adventure, Kentucky Kingdom etc) or the opposite where you spend so much money on building a park, or attraction that you can barely afford to stay in business (DLP, Hard Rock Park etc).

There's a critical point when it comes to deciding the investment level for an attraction. Spending twice as much on a roller coaster doesn't in any way mean you'll make twice as much money back, the two things aren't linear.

Disney parks have had a lot of cuts (especially WDW and it's entertainments) too and the experience has been wobbly these past few years...but the money they spend on their parks is clear to see on the front line and you can feel that value for money.

As a percentage of their OI, how do the two differ? Disney (obviously) spends more on attractions at WDW, but their most attended park at the resort hosts 8 times as many visitors and their least successful park at the resort hosts 4 times as many as Alton.

Perspective.

 

[AndrewH]

Andrew, agree with most of what you say apart from one glaring point...
The Smiler accident, beyond Merlin's control?
No, they are to blame,
have already admitted as much,
have taken a number of measures to make sure there is no repeat,
and have made financial amends to the victims.
If they aren't to blame for the incident,
who exactly was?

And blaming the contractors for the way the Smiler ended up is a bit mean,
the foundations were laid in one of the wettest spells in decades,
I know 'cos I was trying to maintain gardens in the bloody rain at the time!

The planned plaza would have been an amazing feature and experience for non riders,
but was scrapped in the rush to get the ride open.

I would argue that the smiler accident was out of there control in a way. Merlin really do take safety very seriously and what happened definitely should never of happened but I see it as an unfortunate accident. Could the training have been better? Yes but I feel it was just misinterpretation which lead to it and Merlins training is of a very high quality and you simply cannot account for every possibility. Now they have made sure (by taking unprecedented steps no other theme park would normally take) that this cannot ever happen again on the smiler.

With the ground work. I am no expert but surly the professionals should be able to carry this work out with the conditions faced (although I don't know much about ground works so maybe I am too harsh!)

 

[rob666]

You can't dig a deep hole in mud on a sloping site.
Try it, even with big diggers.
It can't be done.
On a smaller scale it is my job,
with a spade.
Merlin have accepted that the Smiler accident was their fault through their actions after the incident.
End of.
Praise the lego.

 

[Benzin]

Well of course Merlin accepted responsibility, it happened on THEIR ride at THEIR park on THEIR property...

Doesn't stop it from being basic human error and nothing to do with the issues with construction...


As for guest experience over profit, good experiences lead to happier guests lead to higher profits... Basic business... WDW have suffered cuts down to the massive overspending on MyMagic+ and the issues surrounding the likes of Kentucky Kingdom and Hard Rock Park closures are more than just bad experiences (didn't KK get sold off by an insolvent Six Flags?) or being able to afford it (Hard Rock Park chose a terrible location)...

 

[Martin]

The thing is, Smiler's planned theming before the project started running massively late and over budget wasn't exactly much better or much more substantial than what we ended up with. The building got made plainer, the marmaliser changed and the surveillance van and tunnels were dropped.

Merlin seemingly are just incapable of getting value for money. It's ironic that the major ride that they probably got best value for money on was Sub-Terra, which only cost £4m, plus whatever the shipping container they stuck on the end cost, ended up being closed partly for being too expensive to run.

The "Merlin are a business" argument is weak, the company made massive profits last year despite the incident at Alton Towers, they can easily afford to operate rides like Hex and N:ST and build better themed attractions that what they do. More importantly, considering when Merlin do build major rides the budgets are usually generous, Merlin, as a business who a) want value for money and b) want satisfied customers, really need to learn how to spend their money better. The money they spend could surely produce better themed attractions, and it's laughable that all three major projects they've attempted at Towers, Thirteen, Sub Terra and Smiler, have all ran behind schedule and over budget. A company as big as Merlin should know better by now.

 

[Rick]

Issues surrounding the likes of Kentucky Kingdom and Hard Rock Park closures are more than just bad experiences (didn't KK get sold off by an insolvent Six Flags?) or being able to afford it (Hard Rock Park chose a terrible location)...

Not quite - I'm not saying those are the be all and end all in those stories, but KK lost vast amounts of its product under the Six Flags tenure and attendance migrated to Holiday World. HRP arguably had quite a good location, but the perception from early guests was that it wasn't a full day attraction and folks would be better heading up to Carowinds.

As for guest experience over profit, good experiences lead to happier guests lead to higher profits... Basic business..

That's too simple an approach though, there is a point where it doesn't make sense to spend more than you're spending. When they built Nemesis in '94, there was a point where they could have decided to spend more on theming, build a longer longer (or more elaborate) ride, add a pre-show etc - but none of those things would likely have returned money on their investment or provided tangible benefits to the business and/or the bottom line.

If you spend an extra £1m on theming a roller coaster, you have to decide where that £1m is going to come back from. It's not going to 'magically' reappear on the balance sheet.

You can apply that logic to anything and it still makes sense. If you want a 40 inch TV, you can spend £300, or you can spend £800 - you have to decide what it makes sense to purchase against your requirements and against your budget. In that scenario, you have to decide if you're going to suffer if you opt for a 38inch TV or when it makes sense to whip out the credit card and buy a 42inch instead.

The "Merlin are a business" argument is weak, the company made massive profits last year despite the incident at Alton Towers, they can easily afford to operate rides like Hex and N:ST and build better themed attractions that what they do.

As a theme park fan and as a shareholder, I would like to suggest that it is not weak. Quite the opposite. It's not about being able to afford something. I can afford to do loads of stuff, but it doesn't mean I should do it.

Merlin is built on debt, don't forget.

 

[Imagination]

Disney (obviously) spends more on attractions at WDW, but their most attended park at the resort hosts 8 times as many visitors and their least successful park at the resort hosts 4 times as many as Alton.
Perspective.

And that's exactly it, perspective. Merlin's perspective is that they want to liken themselves to Disney and Universal and become top...what is there not to see about the fact they are setting themselves up for massive disappointments by comparing themselves to a league with which they are nowhere near? I've seen more quality in parks like Drayton, Paultons, Europa Park etc than I have in many Merlin parks lately. Plus, my original post focuses on front line experience and perceptions, not guest figures, attendance or size...

It's time Merlin got real, stopped their aggressive expansion plan and focus on what they already have in their portfolio. They need to sit up and realise that soon they won't be the only fish in the UK pond.

The two things go hand in hand, you can't look at them exclusively. You have to strike a balance between the two, or you face making no money because guest experience is so poor and nobody visits (American Adventure, Kentucky Kingdom etc) or the opposite where you spend so much money on building a park, or attraction that you can barely afford to stay in business (DLP, Hard Rock Park etc).

They do go hand in hand, working in the visitor business my self we have to always weigh up a reasonable and realistic budget that we then transfer in to a top guest experience - it's not some little fantasy in my head.

The guest experience is poor in many (not all) of their Resort Themeparks and Midway Attractions...Legoland is the only park they ensure is at top notch all season (it has it's own dedicated team within Merlin), whereas the others are just left to their own devices?

You say that they need to strike a balance between the two? So why then do things like Oblivion's mist, Nemesis' scenery, Duel's zombie, pretty much half of Haunted Hollow, extraordinary golf (the guest experience) etc suffer from years of lying dormant because they simply don't get given the budget. These were created with visitor experience in mind and planning/investment was spent on these elements... yet they decide to let their most obvious effects and aesthetics fail...causing the visitor experience become poor. THIS is where Disney excel and I mean it in a frontline point of view (as I said in my previous post) we're not talking about guest attendance ratios. A park's effects, experience and aesthetics should always be top notch and maintained as they were meant to be from day one - regardless if the park is Disney or Funderworld! Don't make these elements if you can't maintain it, the general public notice this stuff much more than many think.

Merlin have the money but instead they'd like to see their books ooze more magic than their attractions and this is exactly how the two and two don't go hand in hand here. Disney squeeze as much as they can out of you, the way the park is designed is built on return profit. Main Street isn't just some quaint themed street with shops and eateries, it's a hub of income for the Disney parks. Disney's up-selling is targeted subconsciously and subtly. You'll be tempted to spend lots when you visit, try to analyse every site plan of every Disney resort and you'll see the planning of every area and ride is part of the profit drive.

But Merlin don't get subtly, as soon as you walk in, there's photo sellers, fastrack posters, staff asking you straight away about this or that (those staff have eased in the past few years though). Every eatery, shop and area have something which they're making obvious to the guest that they want them to buy and be informed about. The parks are huge, it needs to be based on customer feedback and strategy. If Rollercoaster Restaurant is more busy late afternoon according to bookings then target Gloomy Wood, Dark Forest and Forbidden Valley boards to run a "deal" with a dining plan after 2pm. BOGOF or 50% will be far more attractive to the customer than just "buy a platinum this for £99" etc. Work out how your guests are moving about the park, target groups and use your new queue information boards (which have cameras in) to really work out interaction and guest flow to certain areas and start targeting tailored up-selling. This way Towers/Merlin are far more likely to not hinder guest experience whilst still making maximum profit. If the guest isn't aware of blatant upselling, then they'll likely sell more.

There's a critical point when it comes to deciding the investment level for an attraction. Spending twice as much on a roller coaster doesn't in any way mean you'll make twice as much money back, the two things aren't linear.

No it doesn't at all but experiences need to be invested in properly - it's silly to always go in to an attraction project thinking that you'll make twice as much money than you put in, but you'll always need to make a profit.

A rollercoaster is the easiest experience for MMM to do and market. Why do we need to spend twice as much? Other parks create rides, themes and whole areas effectively on a smaller budget, let's look at Magic Valley at Toverland which was 20 million euros (almost 16 million pounds). The whole area was less than the smiler!

Others are saying everyone just points the finger at Merlin but to be honest, I always give them credit where it is due. But right now, in this discussion, they are the ones at fault.

Sorry, I've really gone off topic. Urm, errr, yes - major ride close...reopen N:ST asap!

 

[Sm1lingAdvocate]

I think the problem lies with some of the GP (majority) not caring much about theming. Sure it improves the ride a lot, but unless it's a dark ride or a story based ride, I hate to say this but the GP don't care about the backstories and things, it's true. The only place it is true, is in this country though, other countries have parks like Europa Park, and Disney. Merlin have added some brilliant coasters, but there isn't everything clicking into place apart from on The Smiler (others think different, but that ride in my opinion, is top class.) Hopefully TLC and Derren Browns Ghost Train will be that turnaround. While the TLC hasn't covered the whole park yet, the whole park was in a fairly bad state. By the end of this, the park should hopefully be ready for a relaunch. Relaunch the park in 2018, with a brand new coaster or whatever SW8 is, carry on with TLC year on year, and add the little touches like the Duel zombie, and sort out The strobes and smoke on the smiler, just copy Europa Park!