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Monorail Refurbishment

I know I’ve mentioned land trains in this thread before but the more I think about it, I believe the only real option is a full refurbishment of the existing monorail. It would likely be the most cost effective option too.

Full station refurbishment with new audio and TVs, new trains, and air-gates to improve batching and throughput.

Any other option requires major changes in infrastructure and layout.
 
... After all this talk of monorail(s) replacements and so forth, why not just go tho whole hog and tackle the root cause of the problem:

The car parks are over 1km away from the park entrance.

Done right I'm sure you could build a multi-storey parking structures (with a few basement floors) on the site of what is now express parking & behind Sharkbait Reef. Then you can remove the monorail altogether, everyone can walk to the entrance, and you've the added benefit of having all that car park land (existing) to be used for park expansion.

Universal/Disney use multi-storeys in their California parks, and new, pre-fabricated modular construction techniques makes them much cheaper and faster to build that in the past. Heck take a look at the multi-storey's at Manchester airport which go up in a matter of months.
 
GJMarshy said:
... After all this talk of monorail(s) replacements and so forth, why not just go tho whole hog and tackle the root cause of the problem:

The car parks are over 1km away from the park entrance.

Done right I'm sure you could build a multi-storey parking structures (with a few basement floors) on the site of what is now express parking & behind Sharkbait Reef. Then you can remove the monorail altogether, everyone can walk to the entrance, and you've the added benefit of having all that car park land (existing) to be used for park expansion.

Universal/Disney use multi-storeys in their California parks, and new, pre-fabricated modular construction techniques makes them much cheaper and faster to build that in the past. Heck take a look at the multi-storey's at Manchester airport which go up in a matter of months.
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I would love this to be the option, you could then have a second park built on the current car park but I would guess it would probably cost a fourtune, and probably upset all of the neighbours
 
GJMarshy said:
... After all this talk of monorail(s) replacements and so forth, why not just go tho whole hog and tackle the root cause of the problem:

The car parks are over 1km away from the park entrance.

Done right I'm sure you could build a multi-storey parking structures (with a few basement floors) on the site of what is now express parking & behind Sharkbait Reef. Then you can remove the monorail altogether, everyone can walk to the entrance, and you've the added benefit of having all that car park land (existing) to be used for park expansion.

Universal/Disney use multi-storeys in their California parks, and new, pre-fabricated modular construction techniques makes them much cheaper and faster to build that in the past. Heck take a look at the multi-storey's at Manchester airport which go up in a matter of months.
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I doubt very much that multi storey car parks would get planning permission. They’d be seen from outside the park and would ruin the views for the people living here, who would likely fiercely oppose.

Plus it would cost around £10k-£12k per parking space according to estimated figures.

IMG_5510.jpeg
 
flyingguitar said:
I volunteer at a steam railway, they have probably under weathered it, steam engines get dirty, like very dirty.

to keep them looking nice in preservation they are cleaned very often.
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A fair point. I know freight locos were rarely cleaned, but thought the prestige express locos were kept shiny. Obviously I wasn't around in those days. (Maybe our @rob666 might remember...? ;) )
(Would love to chat more, but this is off topic already).

Any suitable replacement would need to be a full circuit of track to maximise capacity. A two train shuttle just wouldn't cut it.
..... Omnimover tbh.
 
DiogoJ42 said:
Any suitable replacement would need to be a full circuit of track to maximise capacity. A two train shuttle just wouldn't cut it.
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comparing to the universal system, I think a similar system could work I would imagine a better loading system (you load like on a typical train through 2 doors, then you go to a cabin and the cabin door is closed, but you could have it set up with cabin doors leading outside similar to the monorail)
the hogwarts express is quite large, you trade having more trains for having 2 large ones (I think each hogwarts express hold about double what one monorail train holds).
edit: of loading each of the carrages could look similar to this:
1737303867126.png
 
jibbsie said:
comparing to the universal system, I think a similar system could work I would imagine a better loading system (you load like on a typical train through 2 doors, then you go to a cabin and the cabin door is closed, but you could have it set up with cabin doors leading outside similar to the monorail)
the hogwarts express is quite large, you trade having more trains for having 2 large ones (I think each hogwarts express hold about double what one monorail train holds).
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The overall throughput might be equal, but surely it's better to have smaller trains departing frequently, to keep the queue moving?
 
DiogoJ42 said:
The overall throughput might be equal, but surely it's better to have smaller trains departing frequently, to keep the queue moving?
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the queue would move more often, but if each vehicle has a motor and power scource then that vehicle needs servicing and it overall it would probably end up cosing more, and the fernicular is a much more simple system potentially reducing the downtime.
So from a buisness point of view it could be better to go for the fernicular as you get the same throughput for less.
 
Maintenance costs can stack up, true. They say that "the best part is no part". So the best option clearly is to shut the whole ride down and make everyone walk. Think how much more budget they would have for other things!
 
DiogoJ42 said:
A fair point. I know freight locos were rarely cleaned, but thought the prestige express locos were kept shiny. Obviously I wasn't around in those days. (Maybe our @rob666 might remember...? ;) )
(Would love to chat more, but this is off topic already).

Any suitable replacement would need to be a full circuit of track to maximise capacity. A two train shuttle just wouldn't cut it.
..... Omnimover tbh.
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1.
I was one of the last to take the train to Blackpool Central, but not under steam.
I do remember the steam trains to Manchester though.
2.
Multi storey car parks are extremely expensive...geomatting a few overspill fields is far far cheaper.
3.
Why not scrap the monorail and extend the, er, skyride...
 
DiogoJ42 said:
Maintenance costs can stack up, true. They say that "the best part is no part". So the best option clearly is to shut the whole ride down and make everyone walk. Think how much more budget they would have for other things!
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By Merlin logic, this makes 100% sense and I suspect you're on the mark!

In real-world logic though, expecting guests to walk over 1km each way is a sure fire way to reduce customer satisfaction and decrease your relevance in the industry when the Universal park(s) come online, which will also be far more accessible that AT, by both road & rail.

If AT is already somewhat scuppered by its poor road/rail links, making things actively worse for guests when arriving after making such a journey well - you know how that'd turn out. Universal opens, dominates the UK theme park market (alongside Thorpe Park) We'd be saying by bye bye to AT. The customer proposition would pale in comparison to the alternatives.

The park/resort has to stay relevant if it wants to stay open. If Merlin carries on like this, and Universal gets built as planned, by 2040 we could bell be in a situation where AT gets put on the market. Who knows who'd buy it, but Merlin certainly wouldn't want it eating into their juicy profit margins. ;)
 
DiogoJ42 said:
Maintenance costs can stack up, true. They say that "the best part is no part". So the best option clearly is to shut the whole ride down and make everyone walk. Think how much more budget they would have for other things!
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yeah, but you could loose buisness because people don't want to walk all that way to the enterance, so it is the best of a requirement,
also a fernicular dosn't need a maitanence bay, allowing for that storage / maitanence area to be used for an attraction.
 
GJMarshy said:
By Merlin logic, this makes 100% sense and I suspect you're on the mark!

In real-world logic though, expecting guests to walk over 1km each way is a sure fire way to reduce customer satisfaction and decrease your relevance in the industry when the Universal park(s) come online, which will also be far more accessible that AT, by both road & rail.
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For a park of Alton Towers' size, having the car park a significant distance away from the entrance is a marginal benefit.

You know what isn't a great customer experience? The Thorpe Park cattle pen; which is what happens when you have your car park on the doorstep of your entrance.

The long walk helps to spread out the queues, for those who are able and fit enough to do the journey, at the entrance. Those who want to take the monorail, can do.
GJMarshy said:
and Universal gets built as planned
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Still at the consultation / consideration phase. Still no guarantee that planning will even ever be submitted.
 
Jb85 said:
Id hate to guess at a monorail refurb cost - but I’ve heard somewhere that works on Skyride totalled £9m

I’d guess a similar amount would be needed on the monorail, maybe more. If they do go with this option I’d be well impressed
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well, the track is probably good (it is a hunk of steel, with quite low accelerating trains passing over it, maybe the electrics could be changed) but for a refurb I would really just say new / refurbed trains and refurbished station buildings, I would probably assume they would get it refurbished (the mechanical condition of the trains doesn't seem bad (although can't really see it), mainly just aesthetics) depending on the level of refurbishment, new windows, a paint job and interiour (maybe some AC as well) would really be all that is needed, for so many train it would probably cost quite a bit but I can't imagine it being insanely high. then the stations , for loading could do with some passenger gates being added, then done (you could repaint the station, but I am not sure how you could improve the entrance station without tearing it down)
 
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