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[2024] Nemesis Reborn: Construction and Speculation

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Trooper Looper said:
Well, there goes Nemesis cool and mysterious theme...
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We have no idea yet what the enhancements will be. It could be great or it could go down the forced literal 'story' route.

I hope there is no attempt at this being a 'sequel' Nemesis and just enhancements to the original concept

There's room to imaginatively improve the experience so I hope they take full advantage
 
Trooper Looper said:

From: https://twitter.com/TowersTimes/status/1598438007740194818?t=zYIB76Wp010eaMCImXLsPQ&s=19


"Much more storytelling..."

Well, there goes Nemesis cool and mysterious theme...
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I have to say, that sounds promising to me!

If John Burton has been able to give the ride a new thematic edge while maintaining the same basic theme, that sounds pretty good, in my eyes!

As I said earlier in the thread, I feel that Nemesis’ theme/story could be made clearer for the first time rider, so hopefully the changes that John alludes to will help with that. I do feel that a few more bits of theming around the ride and queue/area could help to convey a clearer overall theme, and I feel that the ride lacks those kinds of smaller details that some of the newer themed experiences have at present.
 
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Matt N said:
I feel that Nemesis’ theme/story could be made clearer for the first time rider
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I know I've repeated this forever but the theme was designed to not be (literally) clear, to conjure up the imagination and add mystery.
John Wardley goes into great detail about this in the Nemesis 21 event talk and I don't think this was ever really a 'flaw'.

It only needs improving to be richer atmosphere and enhanced. And stay cohesive, I just worry adding extra 'storylines' and complications wont do this. Although it might get an enthusiast echo chamber on Twitter happy.

Id have no reason to be worried if it wasnt for the Phalanx videos that went out, otherwise Id be optimistic that theyd do a fantastic job
 
Niet Roken said:
I know I've repeated this forever but the theme was designed to not be (literally) clear, to conjure up the imagination and add mystery.
John Wardley goes into great detail about this in the Nemesis 21 event talk and I don't think this was ever really a 'flaw'.

It only needs improving to be richer atmosphere and enhanced. And stay cohesive, I just worry adding extra 'storylines' and complications wont do this. Although it might get an enthusiast echo chamber on Twitter happy.

Id have no reason to be worried if it wasnt for the Phalanx videos that went out, otherwise Id be optimistic that theyd do a fantastic job
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What worked in 1994 is not always going to be the same 30 years later. We live in the age of the geek, where complex storylines are relished in movies and TV shows. People these days like a little depth in their storytelling.

That said going deeper into the legend increases the risk of things becoming a bit “naff” so we just have to hope that they don’t fall into that trap.
 
Niet Roken said:
I know I've repeated this forever but the theme was designed to not be (literally) clear, to conjure up the imagination and add mystery.
John Wardley goes into great detail about this in the Nemesis 21 event talk and I don't think this was ever really a 'flaw'.

It only needs improving to be richer atmosphere and enhanced. And stay cohesive, I just worry adding extra 'storylines' and complications wont do this. Although it might get an enthusiast echo chamber on Twitter happy.

Id have no reason to be worried if it wasnt for the Phalanx videos that went out, otherwise Id be optimistic that theyd do a fantastic job
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As I’ve said before, I think there are ways Nemesis’ theme could be conveyed more clearly without necessarily resorting to explicitly telling you a story.

I agree that chucking you in a pre-show room and explicitly giving you a blow by blow account of the story might not necessarily work with a ride like Nemesis; I do fully appreciate that it’s a theme that doesn’t necessarily require an explicit explanation.

However, I do feel that some finer details and smaller pieces of theming around the ride and queue could go a long way toward conjuring up a clear, compelling theme without necessarily going too on-the-nose, and that’s the kind of thing I’m on about.

I also emphatically agree with what @Dave says about people today relishing slightly deeper storytelling and narrative building than they did 30 years ago, so adding a tiny bit more heft to Nemesis thematically could help to re-sell it to a modern audience. I also think this with regard to the Duel refurbishment, where some people are very adamant that it needs to stay without any kind of narrative because the original HH never had one.
 
Trooper Looper said:
Screw deep storytelling. Gimmie big monsters in pit coveted in rotten flesh!!
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The two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

I’m sure that you could have “deep storytelling” and “big monster in pit covered in rotten flesh” coexist together very nicely!
 
Matt N said:
The two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

I’m sure that you could have “deep storytelling” and “big monster in pit covered in rotten flesh” coexist together very nicely!
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But why? This isn't a Diseny lark where everything has to be explained to guests from a Preshow? A good story makes sense for a new indoor attraction from the ground up, but why a roller coaster?

Would it be fun if we knew what oblivion backstory was? What the master of darkness true intention was with us? It probably wouldn't. Heck, John said in a documentary when the ride was under construction was that it was themed to one of those places you don't really know what was going on, or have a linear understanding anyway, same could be said for nemesis.
 
Yeah, I hope they don't try too hard when it comes to telling the story. If you are having to force the story upon your guests, telling them every little detail, then your theming etc. is not doing a good enough job. Look at a classic Disney coaster for example - Big Thunder Mountain. There is a clear theme, somewhat of a story, yet at no point are you told what this is. The theming speaks for itself.

To be quite perfectly honest, all I want from Nemesis is new track and the return of the blood waterfalls. I worry that something like a pre-show, which is completely unnecessary, would only act to reduce the throughput.
 
Trooper Looper said:
But why? This isn't a Diseny lark where everything has to be explained to guests from a Preshow? A good story makes sense for a new indoor attraction from the ground up, but why a roller coaster?

Would it be fun if we knew what oblivion backstory was? What the master of darkness true intention was with us? It probably wouldn't. Heck, John said in a documentary when the ride was under construction was that it was themed to one kf those places you don't really know what was going on, or have a linear understanding anyway, same could be said for nemesis.
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I get that not every ride requires a pre-show, and I’m not necessarily advocating one for Nemesis, as I’m not sure that it would fit the ride.

My point was more that you can tell a deep story without going too explicit. I think Nemesis as it is currently lacks those mechanisms, and it could employ them without necessarily damaging the ethos of the original ride. You can add details to the theme that tell a story without explicitly telling a story, and I think that there is certainly room for this on Nemesis.

I get that not every roller coaster needs to be themed. For instance, I fully understand why, say, Blackpool Pleasure Beach doesn’t theme their rides fully. They don’t aim for that type of experience. However, Nemesis clearly aims to be a themed attraction, so I think it’s fair to comment on its story.

As for Oblivion; I concede that the videos build atmosphere very well, but I’ll admit that as a theme, Oblivion/X-Sector has never been my favourite. I personally feel that Smiler enhanced that area massively by giving it more of a thematic edge.
 
Subtlety is over-rated, everything must be spoon fed.

Big scary rollercoasters don't always need to be explicit within storytelling. Sometimes the ride is the story, and more often than not less is more. I never felt I needed to be explicitly told anything about Nemesis when first riding it. The pit, alien, surrounding area all worked in tandem to create an air of mystery that was open to interpretation (I never thought of the stones being linked to cult worship).

Save explicit stories for the dark rides. And even then those often are just as successful with breadcrumb style of storytelling.
 
Dave said:
What worked in 1994 is not always going to be the same 30 years later. We live in the age of the geek, where complex storylines are relished in movies and TV shows. People these days like a little depth in their storytelling.
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Nemesis did have depth, it was pretty imaginative for a coaster. It worked because it used its setting and added to the spectator /queueing experience.

But its a coaster, its purpose isn't to literally tell a story, least not one about Kate Cogs, John Dalton and the baddie company. It's to be part of a themed experience and a thrilling ride.

Really it was 1994 not 1944, other than technology and budget the concept is still entertaining. Subtlety, atmosphere and mystery are still values today. Which would be ruined by forcing geeky trappings for the sake of it (if that's the route they will follow).

My favourite themed coaster is those at Phantasialand, visually spectacular, lots to explore and themes that add to the experience through and through. More towards that please!
 
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I doubt they’ll shoehorn in a pre show. I’m expecting some new props and set pieces, but any “story telling” in the explicit sense would surely be relegated to sub Terra ?
 
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