[2024] Nemesis Reborn: Construction and Speculation

[jon81uk]

I don't think we're quite on the same pagelength on this. It's not so much about the parks as a whole or how big or high budget they are, its specifically about Nemesis, and what you can compare it with, and think a lot of those six flags style parks aren't relevant to the discussion cause they don't produce the same kind of rides. Certainly not with the backstory, themed area, or style.

The point being made about Nemesis is similar to a lot of rides that were developed in the UK. Oblivion has the same kind of secret mysterious (but open ended) government theme. You can fill in the gaps about what's really going on yourself. Just like with Nemesis.

But you were stating its a cultural difference between UK and USA, which is not true, there are many parks and many rides with various levels of themeing across the UK and the US. You were arguing that Americans go more over the top and now you say they don't?

Realistically if you just turn up at the park there was no effort to explain the backstory, Nemesis as presented had less going on than something like Hulk at IoA. The general area has/had theming but there was no attempt to present the backstory. Similarly at some of the Six Flags parks there is plenty of theming to show what the ride is meant to be but no attempt to tell the backstory. Biggest difference probably is Six Flags often just says "something to do with Batman" or this is Supermans fortress of solitude ice palace thing, whereas Nemesis presented a more original concept of the coaster being an alien creature.

 

[Sauron97]

But you were stating its a cultural difference between UK and USA, which is not true, there are many parks and many rides with various levels of themeing across the UK and the US. You were arguing that Americans go more over the top and now you say they don't?

Realistically if you just turn up at the park there was no effort to explain the backstory, Nemesis as presented had less going on than something like Hulk at IoA. The general area has/had theming but there was no attempt to present the backstory. Similarly at some of the Six Flags parks there is plenty of theming to show what the ride is meant to be but no attempt to tell the backstory. Biggest difference probably is Six Flags often just says "something to do with Batman" or this is Supermans fortress of solitude ice palace thing, whereas Nemesis presented a more original concept of the coaster being an alien creature.

Over the top as in (and I don't mean this as a blanket statement against all americans), unashamedly showoffy, fake, and that bit more narcissistic. They really do take themselves a lot more seriously . sorry but I think its true for a big chunk of their entertainment. i used the late night shows, hollywood and red carpet point as a flippant example. I definitely think with younger generations and social media we are sadly heading that way too, so maybe in the future this point won't be relevant.

edit: Just to link the paragraph above in the wider point; I think a lot of Disney imagineers and Universal studios teams are a lot more preocupied with their own ideas for how the ride is seen, rather than how riders could see their creations. Jurassic park the ride being the example I gave, every aspect of the story in eachscene is lectured to you And I don't think americans are largely bothered by it. They are used to that kind of fake storytelling. It's culturally in their psyche.

I don't think the Superman or Batman rides are anywhere near as detailed or authentic looking as Nemesis, and are way more IP driven. but i agree, yeah, they like Nemesis don't over explain their themes or have lectured narratives during the ride experience.

Nemesis does the vague bit really well. Were it in a disney park you'd probably be going up the lifthill and being told about the creature and what the phalanx are trying to do to stop it . And there'd probably be a bit in the middle where the coaster stops on a break run and a tentacle tries to attack you in a cave. And then at the end of the ride you'd probably be told "mission success" or something silly like that

I don't enjoy that kind of thing as much personally. It's way more fake, especially for UK teens and older audiences. I prefer letting my imagination run, and seeing the nemesis site as almost lke a work of art that can be interpreted in different ways. Most people probably don't give it that level of thought, but like I said before, some people do and it appeals to a lot more people as a result. It just looks really cool and mysterious, especially when the river of blood part worked. It works well for a british audience

 

[RyanUK]

Also depends what you count as Nemesis Nosh, the bus went probably 20 years when the entrance to Blade was moved and the old Nemesis shop had already become a food outlet (great chicken kebab).
Then that building was redone as Fish and Chips (with the Nemesis Legend as art panels), that had a fire and became the coffee shop.
Google Streetview is 2009 and has the Fish and Chip shop, so the bus and the old shop version of Nemesis Nosh had gone.

I remember the Fish & Chips building. Blimey, Merlin’s kitchens have had so many fires over the years. I never saw the bus one.

Nemesis was a very good themed ride.

Still is. Until we know otherwise, the Nemmie we know is THE same good ride.

Lifting one quarter of the loop would risk it swinging out once it's unbolted. It's easier to grab the whole top half as you it'll sit there quite happily even when unbolted until you lift it.

It is indeed, you can see the ones being replaced in the plans highlighted in green.


No straw clutching here, simply looking at the facts. I wholly agree there will be some people eating humble pie, however I don't think I'm of the same view as to which group that will be


We know that the ride has to be re-tracked as it was coming to the end of its useful life. However, that doesn't mean we should discount the fact that marketing comes into it (as it always does!). I agree with Skyscraper in that the potential to be able to market some sort of re-theme to the ride still plays a big part in ok'ing the overall project.

Now I may get shot down here for a controversial view, but stick with me. I think as enthusiasts we often over-exaggerate the overall importance of Nemesis to the occasional visitor. Anecdotally, if I get into conversation about Alton Towers with my none regular visiting friends, other coasters like Oblivion, Rita and even Air (they'll still call it that!) will come up in conversation before Nemesis does. I'm not denying it's a great ride and well loved, but I think we can often over-egg its status among the general public.

We now as good as know there will be a retheme of some sort to the ride, there's too much evidence pointing toward that being the case. The track colour, the actors around the ride at Fireworks on the Sunday and the intentional eye effect on the announcement video all point to the introduction of something else into the ride's lore when it comes back next year. Not to mention John Wardley's own words in an interview with TT/Attraction source which also suggests some differences will be seen:

Come 2024, the park will want to shout about it reopening, to encourage guests to visit the park. Simply saying "it's back open, it's the same thing" simply isn't going to cut it. They will want to see something new and fresh to push out there, and based on everything we know so far - that's looking to be the case.

The amount of times I have stood in a coaster queue line and looked at how it’s bolted together - on most coasters it’s easy to see. Here is Inferno’s loop during its construction - I’ve always noticed how it’s so easy to see how the top section just bolts onto the lower part, and to the supports too. B&M don’t just make good a good inverted coaster, they’re pleasing to the eye to study too.

I do love how many people have seemingly developed precognition in here.

So many people seem to know seemingly as fact, what Nemesis shall be like next year.

Yeah…not a fan of it.

 

[Zeock]

I would love a themed restaurant like the original Nemesis Nosh to return as part of the 2024 developments.

 

[RyanUK]

I’ve been looking at the loops of both rides more. Nemmie’s loop has more angled sections on the inside where was Inferno’s does, but viewed at some angles it appears different.



As for loops as a whole, Inferno’s is built of more separate sections. It has 2 sections at the top bolted together, where was Nemmie’s doesn’t.



Clearly, in the 9 years between building both rides, B&M made a design improvement. It’ll be interesting to see if the new loop matches Inferno’s.

 

[Zeock]

I’ve been looking at the loops of both rides more. Nemmie’s loop has more angled sections on the inside where was Inferno’s does, but viewed at some angles it appears different.



As for loops as a whole, Inferno’s is built of more separate sections. It has 2 sections at the top bolted together, where was Nemmie’s doesn’t.



Clearly, in the 9 years between building both rides, B&M made a design improvement. It’ll be interesting to see if the new loop matches Inferno’s.

The certificate of lawfulness said that the track would remain visually the same, so probably not, but you never know.

 

[tayspru]

The planning application said that the track would remain visually the same, so probably not, but you never know.

Black track says hi

 

[Craig]

I don't think the planning department would be too bothered about the track joins being in different locations. But ultimately, I'm not really that bothered either way if I'm completely honest .

 

[Skyscraper]

Remember that it was a certificate of lawfulness, not a planning application. If it had been a full planning application the colour change would have been stated.

 

[TomW]

Might be going back a couple of pages in the discussion here but I think the sign alone that Nemesis is getting retracked is a positive one in terms of Merlin's current intentions and strategy. The theme park industry is quite a unique one in that there is often no direct, trackable return to many of the costs associated with running one.

Historically, Merlin seem to have focussed purely on things that are marketable, and will provide direct, short term gains. We've seen this with the lack of upkeep on existing attractions, the deterioration of themeing and effects, and a focus on gimmicky roller coasters over support attractions or anything with particular longevity. At one point we even saw them trying to use normal maintenance of the park as a marketing campaign.

I think it is certain we will see significant change to Nemesis in probably all areas other than the layout, but this is to be expected when the company holds such credence to marketable headlines. They will want to achieve some sort of tangible return on what is a very expensive project. That said, I think that even just a few years ago a complete retrack of an existing coaster would have been something we would never have expected Merlin to put funds towards, and with that in mind I welcome any changes that will come with it in order to make that financially viable for them, even if it might kill some of our nostalgia a bit.

 

[Matt.GC]

We’ll that’s subject to opinion because I’d take any of the Florida parks over Nemesis any day.

You’re saying Nemesis stands up to the level of theming and immersiveness of lands and rides such as Pandora, Flight of Passage, Expedition Everest, Toy Story Land, Galaxy’s Edge, Big Thunder Mountain, Velocicoaster, Wizarding World etc?

Give over. Rose tinted glasses.

I don't know what to say about this really.Did you even read my post before you quoted it? It's almost comical that you went on a rant that is completely irrelevant to what was actually said. Please be more respectful in the future and think before you act.

Oh, and if you were asking a serious question in this post (?) then the answer is 'no' by the way. Why? Because if you'd read the post you quoted in your reply, you'd know that I've only encountered 1 of the 8 experiences you've mentioned.... because it just so happened to be the only 1 of those 8 that actually existed at the time. Maybe you've experienced all of them (?), as well as 94 Nemesis, so are able to give us your definitive opinion? If so, I'd love to hear it.

I'd love to hear about your experience of Nemesis in 1994 when you rode it for the first time and how it compared to the rides you experienced in the Florida parks in the same year?

 

[DistortAMG]

Sorry if this has been posted before. But it appears the loop from Nemesis is not sitting in the same scrap pile as the rest of the track, and it is also actively being cleaned after it's removal.

Strong evidence to suggest the loop is being kept for something. A good choice if you ask me, keeping at least part of the original track from one of the most iconic coasters on the planet.


From: https://youtu.be/oWFIcQbDcs8

 

[Skyscraper]

Just putting it out there, but could we see the loop going above the Galactica gate/hotel guest entrance? Would fit quite nicely in my opinion.

 

[Danny]

They're going to preserve it and use it as a restoration bargaining chip for Horizon.

 

[BarryZola]

They're going to preserve it and use it as a restoration bargaining chip for Horizon.

Yes. They can place it on top of the shed so that the locals can appreciate the heritage of the site from certain viewpoints in the village.

 

[DistortAMG]

I think this is either going to be used as new theming for the new Nemesis, or, placed somewhere on park.

You would not be cleaning track you are sending to the scrapyard, I think that is a big giveaway.

 

[mo237]

Doubt there'd be clearance for it, or a road tight enough, but I love the idea of having it go over a small road somewhere on Resort - size permitting, of course.

 

[Craig]

While I’m not discounting the possibility of it being used somewhere, I’m not seeing any evidence of “active cleaning” of the track. If you look at around 2:08 on the video you can see the bits of track on the right hand side are still absolutely filthy. The top half of the loop was always pretty clean anyway, as seen in the crop below from Danny’s drone shots last month.

 

[RyanUK]

While I’m not discounting the possibility of it being used somewhere, I’m not seeing any evidence of “active cleaning” of the track. If you look at around 2:08 on the video you can see the bits of track on the right hand side are still absolutely filthy. The top half of the loop was always pretty clean anyway, as seen in the crop below from Danny’s drone shots last month.

The video shows the loop is whiter. Whether it’s been cleaned or not we don’t know but the flat sections haven’t weathered as bad as other track sections, due to their facing position. It will be interesting to see what happens here. If they do use it to make something, it will be interesting to see if the adjoining pieces of track at both ends of the loop are used too. Also, think of the weight of those sections of the loop - they are probably some of the heaviest parts, meaning they've possibly separated them because of the weight if they do go to scrap.

I don't think the planning department would be too bothered about the track joins being in different locations. But ultimately, I'm not really that bothered either way if I'm completely honest .

I’m not really bothered either but it may prove that B&M have made an improvement. Considering Black Mamba at Phantasialand opened 3 years after Inferno, it has the same design as Nemmie. So this gets even stranger, Inferno is made up of more pieces despite being built after Nemmie and before Black Mamba. Maybe B&M have options based on ground requirements etc for each project?

 

[Jb85]

So we've gone from colourgate to cleaninggate good lord.

Wonder what solution they used to clean it