[2024] Nemesis Reborn: Construction and Speculation

[Zeock]

But honestly B&M track is very heavy so I think it’s most likely all going to be scrapped

Seems a shame to scrap it all. Many people on here, including me, would love a piece of Nemesis if it wasn't too expensive.

 

[DistortAMG]

Weird how they have removed the top half of the loop as a single piece though. When it is made up of two pieces.

Maybe it was easier to remove and dismantle out the pit due to the limited access, as it certainly will not fit onto a lorry like that. Unless of course they were planning on using it as an arch, or a piece of scenery for the new Nemesis. Unlikely I know, but that would explain them doing it like that.

A pair of meter by meter footers would be realively easy to make. Your bog standard local builder could knock those up in a day or two. Footers for that could be built for less than a few grand. They could be built to a different specification due to it not being used as actual coaster track and the associated forces and loads / live loads that go with that.

 

[Log Flume's Dennis]

I reckon they'll use it as a hotel guest entrance in Forbidden Valley. Either that or the RCR entrance

 

[RyanUK]

But up until now I think all sections of track have been unbolted and lifted out, and then cut up when they reach the scrapyard. That would seem to be case, especially given the photos we’ve seen of it in the car park.

And guess what, it is going to ride exactly the same as it always has!

Well, we hope so. We’re promised the same ride experience which is what we will always get, it is certainly a smooth one. As for onlookers such as me, we know the roar won’t be there, with sand infilling on the supports.

Idk anymore, maybe it's just me. I'm mostly a tad more interested in the theme than the actual ride itself, just a bit!! I think it works wonders and seeing the potential chance of it being scrapped or rethemed for a Military theme and a blander colour scheme kinda makes my blood boil. Forbidden Valley looked so weird with the giant monster in the pit, the rusty, abandoned Sci fi buildings and vehicles, the monoliths, the drill coveted in tendrils, the music, I absolutely loved it, it was so unearthly!! Don't get me wrong, the ride is amazing in almost every way a coaster layout can be, but the Forbidden Valley itself... for me anyway, is, or, was, on a whole other level...

I like the theme just as much as the ride. Forbidden Valley has always been great. The area was cleverly thought out before Nemesis first ever opened, with the drill down by the arcade building. As you come from Gloomy Wood into the area and walk past the Sub Terra site, you will come past that drill and there is always a sense of a build-up between there, as you pass under the Nemesis arch and then finally see the ride itself and entrance. Forbidden Valley has always been well looked after. It’s old, but it and Nemesis especially are Towers’ baby, its prized possession - and letting it go is too hard for words.

Nemesis’ best days are behind us. Whatever we end up with from next year, nothing will beat what we’ve had for the last 3 decades - ever. In 2005, I visited the park for the first time ever, and I’ll always regret the day when I first laid eyes on the beast and had a few negative opinions of it. I thought it was a rusting heap (I didn’t realise the applied theme then), it looked old and I thought Inferno was better. And I couldn’t see the worldwide obsession with it, why it had so much recognition etc. As the years passed, through various forms from riding to social media, I soon appreciated her more and more.

This is a very detailed Nemesis removal update.
Credit: Squadding Quads on YouTube

From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdEjoBz8Xk4&t=9s

Interesting how the large support for the first corkscrew is still there when others have been taken out. Probably because of its size. Also, I’m interested to see if they’ll replace the support that pokes out of the station roof, where it holds the upside down section of track. Considering it’s within the building too. Now they are getting to the Immelmann and pit work, this shall be interesting too.

What’s also cool is to see how land without it there. Remember, it’s naturally grown over the 30 years, with the odd periodic maintenance.

A copy and paste of the 1994 theme does not have the same appeal and draw as a new take on the theme with visual/story changes.

Maybe to you it doesn’t. To some, it might. I love how people are clutching at straws over the whole colour track and theme change when it’s still so early in the project to even know its future. Debate away indeed but I can’t help but feel some people will be eating humble pie in the future.

100% agree. There is no way that Merlin would have greenlighted the project if it was just going to be a like-for-like swap. That wouldn't generate any return on investment.

We don’t know that. One of the major driving factors for this entire retrack is because after nearly 30 years of operating, the track has taken a lot of stress over the years - far more than other rides in the UK. Vampire at Chessington is only a few years older. Its throughput is most likely a lot lower than Nemesis. It runs slower but I doubt it will ever be retracked in its life.

Imagine that someone has visited the park before, but is feeling a bit jaded by the current offering. They won’t want to visit again until the park have put in a new ride or are offering something tangibly “new” for them to experience. Rebuilding Nemesis exactly as was and keeping everything the same would likely have them asking “I’ve done Nemesis before; if it’s exactly the same as it was, then why should I come back and experience it again just because you’ve replaced the track and given the existing scenery a lick of paint?”. If you keep the ride exactly the same as before, making a case to this crowd to make them return for the retracked Nemesis may be tough, because nothing tangible has changed.

A lot of people return to the park in between major new attractions. It doesn’t keep people away. And in response to your comment about why should people come back because they’ve just replaced the track and given it a lick of paint, your average 2-times a year visitor probably wouldn't be bothered about that, but if they did the work and kept it exactly the same, it’s things like that would make people flock back! Nemesis is the victim of her own success - little has generally changed since 1993, and look how the people return year after year. Because that’s what they love. Leave something alone for years and it’ll be a success. The park got it spot on and it paid off with little modification. The minute you touch it, you risk its target audience being disrupted. Remember, a lot of people head to Forbidden Valley at the start of a day, because they love it and it’s Towers’ best rollercoaster, and part of it being the best one is because they’ve let the beast sleep and not changed anything.

Finally, thank god for drones these days. This video offers some good angles of the ride that were never seen in the first 10 years of operation.

From: https://youtu.be/w4X7C-ix8DM

 

[jon81uk]

Weird how they have removed the top half of the loop as a single piece though. When it is made up of two pieces.

Maybe it was easier to remove and dismantle out the pit due to the limited access, as it certainly will not fit onto a lorry like that. Unless of course they were planning on using it as an arch, or a piece of scenery for the new Nemesis. Unlikely I know, but that would explain them doing it like that.

As Craig said, you can see how it’s suspended from the crane and removal as one balanced piece would have been far easier.

 

[SMT_]

Well, we hope so. We’re promised the same ride experience which is what we will always get, it is certainly a smooth one. As for onlookers such as me, we know the roar won’t be there, with sand infilling on the supports.

It should still have quite a roar to it even being sand filled. Granted not as moody as that iconic roar we all know to love but it's hardly going to be a silent mouse with the majority of the track being in a rocky pit.

 

[Zeock]

It should still have quite a roar to it even being sand filled. Granted not as moody as that iconic roar we all know to love but it's hardly going to be a silent mouse with the majority of the track being in a rocky pit.

It should sound similar to Inferno, as that is sand-filled, yet it will probably be slightly louder due to it being in a pit, as you say. I don't really mind that much about the roar decreasing in decibels.

 

[Burks]

Now they are getting to the Immelmann and pit work, this shall be interesting too.

What immelmann?

You mean the zero g roll over the station?

 

[Matt.GC]

But up until now I think all sections of track have been unbolted and lifted out, and then cut up when they reach the scrapyard. That would seem to be case, especially given the photos we’ve seen of it in the car park.

Well, we hope so. We’re promised the same ride experience which is what we will always get, it is certainly a smooth one. As for onlookers such as me, we know the roar won’t be there, with sand infilling on the supports.

I like the theme just as much as the ride. Forbidden Valley has always been great. The area was cleverly thought out before Nemesis first ever opened, with the drill down by the arcade building. As you come from Gloomy Wood into the area and walk past the Sub Terra site, you will come past that drill and there is always a sense of a build-up between there, as you pass under the Nemesis arch and then finally see the ride itself and entrance. Forbidden Valley has always been well looked after. It’s old, but it and Nemesis especially are Towers’ baby, its prized possession - and letting it go is too hard for words.

Nemesis’ best days are behind us. Whatever we end up with from next year, nothing will beat what we’ve had for the last 3 decades - ever. In 2005, I visited the park for the first time ever, and I’ll always regret the day when I first laid eyes on the beast and had a few negative opinions of it. I thought it was a rusting heap (I didn’t realise the applied theme then), it looked old and I thought Inferno was better. And I couldn’t see the worldwide obsession with it, why it had so much recognition etc. As the years passed, through various forms from riding to social media, I soon appreciated her more and more.

Interesting how the large support for the first corkscrew is still there when others have been taken out. Probably because of its size. Also, I’m interested to see if they’ll replace the support that pokes out of the station roof, where it holds the upside down section of track. Considering it’s within the building too. Now they are getting to the Immelmann and pit work, this shall be interesting too.

What’s also cool is to see how land without it there. Remember, it’s naturally grown over the 30 years, with the odd periodic maintenance.

Maybe to you it doesn’t. To some, it might. I love how people are clutching at straws over the whole colour track and theme change when it’s still so early in the project to even know its future. Debate away indeed but I can’t help but feel some people will be eating humble pie in the future.

We don’t know that. One of the major driving factors for this entire retrack is because after nearly 30 years of operating, the track has taken a lot of stress over the years - far more than other rides in the UK. Vampire at Chessington is only a few years older. Its throughput is most likely a lot lower than Nemesis. It runs slower but I doubt it will ever be retracked in its life.

A lot of people return to the park in between major new attractions. It doesn’t keep people away. And in response to your comment about why should people come back because they’ve just replaced the track and given it a lick of paint, your average 2-times a year visitor probably wouldn't be bothered about that, but if they did the work and kept it exactly the same, it’s things like that would make people flock back! Nemesis is the victim of her own success - little has generally changed since 1993, and look how the people return year after year. Because that’s what they love. Leave something alone for years and it’ll be a success. The park got it spot on and it paid off with little modification. The minute you touch it, you risk its target audience being disrupted. Remember, a lot of people head to Forbidden Valley at the start of a day, because they love it and it’s Towers’ best rollercoaster, and part of it being the best one is because they’ve let the beast sleep and not changed anything.

Finally, thank god for drones these days. This video offers some good angles of the ride that were never seen in the first 10 years of operation.

From: https://youtu.be/w4X7C-ix8DM

Although I agree with much of this, Nemesis was a mere shadow of its former self theme wise towards the end. The pit looked awful and over grown, the rust "blood" effect just made it look silly a couple years after being painted, Nemesis Nosh had been removed, the red water had gone, Forbidden Valley had long lost its charm and some idiot decided that dumping an armoured tank and a corrugated shed with shouty armoured soldiers at the entrance was a good idea.

I visited the Florida parks in 93 and 94 and flew out there in 94 just a month after riding Nemesis for the first time. The best overall experience I had that year was Nemesis. There was nothing like it in America. You had an excellent coaster that was really intense built into this fanatic landscape. No amount of Disney, Universal and Busch Fiberglass and animatronics made up for the uniqueness of Nemesis in 94. At the time it appeared to me to be the perfect blend of theme, landscaping and track and train layout.

In its later years, it had the fact it was built into a pit (which was no longer unique by then) , it's music and it's fantastic short and intense layout to call it's main attributes. The theme became lost, it's landscaping was largely taken over by nature, the monster developed holes, the repaint job was bodged (although the station repaint looked excellent when it was still fresh), the blood rivers had long gone and much of what made it Nemesis had deteriorated.

It'll reopen with the same layout, offering a very similar yet smoother and quieter ride experience (not that Nemesis was anything other than smooth to the very end) thrilling riders round that downwards helix and whipping them over inversions like it always has. But will it still be Nemesis? Or will it feel like a clone? With guns, tanks, helicopters, body armour, a sinsiter guy with a moustache and whatnot, it'll feel like a clone to me.

I'm no traditionalist and I'm open to new ideas with what they can do with the ride. I also don't know exactly where they're going with this. But the evidence so far (standard Merlin black track to match 3 of their other SW's, sinister organisation like X Sector but this time with guns) just screams that Nemesis of all attractions is being "Merlinised".

I thought this used to be a forum where we celebrated overall experiences over track and train layout alone? Now it seems that the park has sunk so low that many are just greatful that Alton's best coaster reopens because it's not being replaced with a cheaper gimmick coaster. Has Nemesis become just a good invert even if you built it on a flat car park? Or is it much more than that? Having ridden it almost every year of its existence, I'd say that it's the latter.

 

[Benzin]

I'm choosing violence today.


Will it count as a new cred?



*goes to work for rest of day*

 

[Danny]

I'm choosing violence today.


Will it count as a new cred?



*goes to work for rest of day*

No.

 

[Matt N]

Will it count as a new cred?

My thought is no. I won’t personally be counting it as a new +1 because the track and train ride experience probably won’t be materially different in any way other than that all the track has been replaced.

If there were other significant hardware changes, I’d be more undecided, but as this is just a like-for-like retrack of what was there before, it will not be a new credit for me. I never counted the new Hulk as a separate credit to the old Hulk (I managed to ride both forms of that ride), and I won’t be counting new Nemesis as a separate credit either.

 

[jon81uk]

Both coaster-count.com and coastercounter.com have a seperate credit for 2015 Incredible Hulk and 2016 onwards Incredible Hulk, so on that logic I would assume Nemesis 2024 to be a new credit.
(although countercounter.com lists both versions of Hulk as opening in 1999 so )

 

[RyanUK]

What immelmann?

You mean the zero g roll over the station?

I actually meant the stall turn. Whoops.

Although I agree with much of this, Nemesis was a mere shadow of its former self theme wise towards the end. The pit looked awful and over grown, the rust "blood" effect just made it look silly a couple years after being painted, Nemesis Nosh had been removed, the red water had gone, Forbidden Valley had long lost its charm and some idiot decided that dumping an armoured tank and a corrugated shed with shouty armoured soldiers at the entrance was a good idea.

Forbidden Valley still looked good to me when I was there 18 months ago and that’s the last time I saw her. Although I went to Lightopia last year and I saw sections of the track in the distance lit up red at night, whilst she was asleep. I actually quite liked the orange hints in the track, and yes the blood river has lacked lately. I didn’t realise Nosh had gone.

 

[Matt N]

Both coaster-count.com and coastercounter.com have a seperate credit for 2015 Incredible Hulk and 2016 onwards Incredible Hulk, so on that logic I would assume Nemesis 2024 to be a new credit.
(although countercounter.com lists both versions of Hulk as opening in 1999 so )

I’d assume that that is to cater for both people who think it is a new coaster and people who think it isn’t, as I think CoasterCount has quite high flexibility with its counting settings, if I’m remembering correctly.

 

[jon81uk]

I didn’t realise Nosh had gone.

Also depends what you count as Nemesis Nosh, the bus went probably 20 years when the entrance to Blade was moved and the old Nemesis shop had already become a food outlet (great chicken kebab).
Then that building was redone as Fish and Chips (with the Nemesis Legend as art panels), that had a fire and became the coffee shop.
Google Streetview is 2009 and has the Fish and Chip shop, so the bus and the old shop version of Nemesis Nosh had gone.

 

[willwilts]

Just had this pop up on my YouTube feed (I don't think it has been posted here..)

Team edit: A further video of the Nemesis track which has been removed at the scrap yard.


From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OWwJPaojnc

 

[Tuggerz]

I visited the Florida parks in 93 and 94 and flew out there in 94 just a month after riding Nemesis for the first time. The best overall experience I had that year was Nemesis. There was nothing like it in America. You had an excellent coaster that was really intense built into this fanatic landscape. No amount of Disney, Universal and Busch Fiberglass and animatronics made up for the uniqueness of Nemesis in 94. At the time it appeared to me to be the perfect blend of theme, landscaping and track and train layout.

We’ll that’s subject to opinion because I’d take any of the Florida parks over Nemesis any day.

You’re saying Nemesis stands up to the level of theming and immersiveness of lands and rides such as Pandora, Flight of Passage, Expedition Everest, Toy Story Land, Galaxy’s Edge, Big Thunder Mountain, Velocicoaster, Wizarding World etc?

Give over. Rose tinted glasses.

 

[Matt N]

We’ll that’s subject to opinion because I’d take any of the Florida parks over Nemesis any day.

You’re saying Nemesis stands up to the level of theming and immersiveness of lands and rides such as Pandora, Flight of Passage, Expedition Everest, Toy Story Land, Galaxy’s Edge, Big Thunder Mountain, Velocicoaster, Wizarding World etc?

Give over. Rose tinted glasses.

In fairness, I think @Matt.GC was describing 1994 Florida rather than modern day Florida, which would exclude all of the rides you mention above bar Big Thunder Mountain.

 

[Trooper Looper]

We’ll that’s subject to opinion because I’d take any of the Florida parks over Nemesis any day.

I'm sorry, but... no, just... no... they're good quality themed rides, no doubt about that, but they're themed to IPs and typical genres and styles. Nemesis, Well, Alton Towers in general rejected this and went full on one of a kind theme with Forbidden Valley.