Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Skyscraper, 26th Oct 2019.
I wonder if @Skyscraper is talking about Merlin giving B&M notice or about the park giving notice to guests?
I think it’s a case of when, not if at this stage to be honest. Personally I do think that the park would give some notice given the status of the ride and they could market it as a sort of event. But given the rumours of JW riding earlier on this season and the fact that he didn’t even do that at the last anniversary, it’s possible that he has already had his last ride and he’s said his goodbyes to the original Nemesis. It’ll be interesting to watch what happens, that’s for sure.
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I meant Towers giving notice to guests and enthusiasts. Otherwise people would be disappointed if they weren't aware that it was closing for an entire season. They'll all want those last rides on the original Nemmy.
I suppose this is a good point but it doesn't make me wonder how similar it will be. I'd want it to be as close to the original as possible but surely it just won't be the same. Also I hate to ask but is there any chance he was saying goodbye because they were going to remove it outright.
I think people read far too much into things sometimes. John Wardley reportedly not riding Nemesis whilst visiting the park for other reasons suddenly meaning they are going to close the ride is a bit of a stretch.
I think the refurb is very likely at some point. But most likely it will be a like for like retrack so I don’t think they need to make a big deal about it or give any ‘notice’ to guests.
Think of it this way in the mindset of a "normal" guest:
Towers: "We're temporarily closing Nemesis for refurbishment, come ride it soon before it's gone for a season!"
Guests: "Oh great, what are you changing?"
Towers: "It'll be the same Nemesis you know and love"
Guests: "So...does that mean it's unsafe in its current form?"
Not the conversation you want to be having when it's just a temporary closure!
Didn't give anyone a last chance to ride the Flume, Ripsaw, NST, Ice Age, Charlie or Toadstool by giving notice. They were boarded up or removed for good rather than refurbished. I expect if it was happening next season, we wouldn't know about it yet. May be pleasantly surprised by letting us know before the end of the season but it's more likely we'd find out by rumours over closed season and only have it confirmed just before next season begins. Even then it'll probably be low key and focused on the fact it's reopening at some point as "new and improved" or something like that rather than "don't come, one of our headline coasters is closed all year".
Hadn't thought of that. The press would have a field day!
I think there's a good chance it'll happen over this closed season, whether they announce the refurbishment until the start of next season will remain to be seen should it happen.
I do expect it to be the exact same layout with the same trains, perhaps with some slight modifications to the shape of the loop to reduce stress on the track and footers. It'd be really nice to have some new theming elements. For example, I've always liked the idea of the train passing through a Phalanx building with lights, smoke machines and props at the top part of the lift hill and the turnaround just before the drop. It'd be nice to have the station exterior spruced up a bit too.
Curious to know what aspects of the ride you would all change given the opportunity, whether it be theming or something to do with the hardware itself.
Personally I wouldn't change a thing apart from the station being maintained properly as its a brilliant theming structure. I would also love to see the streams red again although I know there's very little chance of that happening ever.
Personally, I could see them shutting Nemesis V1 at the end of 2022, doing the refurb throughout 2023, and then reopening it/opening Nemesis V2 in 2024, to coincide with Nemesis' 30th anniversary. That would be quite fitting!
However, we're still well within the timeframe that it could be shut next year, with the new & improved version opening in 2023. To put things into perspective; while I know it's now mooted for 2022 due to COVID, BPB's refurbished Valhalla was originally due to open in 2021. That refurbishment project wasn't even rumoured until the 2019/20 closed season (after Valhalla V1 had operated for the final time) and was officially announced in December 2019. And to be honest, while Valhalla is not a roller coaster, it's probably a refurb of pretty similar scale based on what we've heard, and is/was just as iconic and revered as Nemesis.
If they were able to in terms of money and/or how long the ride can hold on for in its current form, something I think would be quite smart would be to open SW9 or an equivalent major project in the year that Nemesis would be shut for, so as to deflect attention away from the fact that Nemesis is closed for a year and keep the park from experiencing a net reduction in major ride quantity. So if for instance Nemesis shut at the end of 2022 and reopened in 2024, I would have SW9 open in 2023 to deflect attention from Nemesis’ closure and give people a reason to visit while it’s closed. Then, Nemesis would reopen in 2024, and the “new & improved Nemesis” so to speak would pull people in once again, giving the park a double-whammy of high attendance (in theory)!
I’m not sure they’d necessarily have this issue, or at least, they wouldn’t if they clearly communicated some changes that will be more obvious at guest level. For instance, when Universal retracked Hulk in a similar vein, they had none of these issues, even though they made it clear that track would be replaced. They made some non track-related changes clear in their press releases, such as the on-board audio, the new story/queue and the new trains, and that seemed to cause no issues for them regarding the safety of the old version, even though retracking was talked about.
If Universal Orlando, a resort commonly visited by Brits, didn’t have issues using this approach, why would Alton Towers?
I don't think it'll happen this closed season. It's not definite it will even happen at all by the way, just more likely than removal. It's clear it's reaching the end of its life, but it's not quite there yet and I can't see them doing it until the last season or 2 before it is. There's very few benchmarks for B&M's because unless my facts are wrong there's only one (well two technically) that have ever been removed worldwide, and that wasn't because the coaster(s) had reached the end of their operational life.
With red water, they can bring it back it'll just mean it wouldn't be able to be flowing over the natural rock of the pit or be near any plant life. It'd also be costly, but worth it in my opinion. I presume the water they use at the moment is untreated mains water as opposed to treated water which they also can't use if water table contamination is the issue behind it?
Why are people assuming they'll shut it for a refurb? They'll go bit by bit when it needs doing and work over closed season. Makes zero sense to shut a functioning ride. Even if they redid the entire electrical system on it they can do it on a closed season.
The ride might be too far gone, or need too many bits replacing, to function on a bit-by-bit approach. The ride is getting old, and likely has some sections that have undergone more stress than those on most B&M coasters (while I of course haven’t done that many, sections of Nemesis are supposedly some of the most intense ride sections B&M have ever done), so when there are quite a few sections that need replacing, it makes sense to do it all in one go to remove the possibility of constantly having to do things to it at different times.
It's possible that it might not need an entire twelve months closure, which means it could close at the end of this season and reopen mid-July 2022, for example. Whenever it reopens, I don't think it will do so in unison with SW9. And I am very much in agreement that FV needs another signature ride if Nemesis is closed. I would like to think SW9 might show up adjacent in 2023, with Nemesis reemerging in 2024, but I think we would have seen initial plans submitted by now.
Still struggling to imagine Alton Towers without Nemesis...
I agree. I hadn't thought about them doing it that way.
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I'm not exactly sure how but the red dye somehow leaked into the local (outside the park) water supply which feeds it, which obviously was an envomental hazard. The only way I see them being allowed the dye back is if the water supply was changed to a closed system (own feed pool on site, not fed by the local water supply).
If I recall correctly, the red dye was harmless to the environment but it just didn't look good when it turned up in the local watercourse and the Environment Agency were suitably unimpressed.
In terms of changes I'd make, I agree about doing something on that first drop. It would be nice to have something more theatrical but I'm not sure exactly what.
I wouldn't change anything in terms of track layout or trains, nor the theme itself.
In terms of stuff I’d personally do to Nemesis if it were to get a hefty refurbishment; I’d actually do quite a bit.
In terms of the track and train; I’d mostly keep the layout and trains the same, although I’d reprofile some of the more jarring sections of the layout (I’m thinking the two corkscrews and the zero-g roll here) to induce less headbanging and flow a bit more smoothly.
Most of my refurbishment ideas would be in terms of theming. What I’d personally do is capitalise on and build upon the theme in areas they perhaps weren’t able to to quite the same extent in 1994, as well as enhance areas of it.
Firstly, I’d do some enhancements to the station, giving the interior a more ambient, themed look to reflect you being inside the monster itself. I’d put some smells, ambient lighting and possibly some smoke in here, like in Wicker Man’s station.
Then, I’d possibly put some little thematic details around the layout, as well as possibly some special effects; maybe some fire would work? I reckon some smoke/mist around the layout, in some of the trenches, would work a treat too.
I’d also get an onboard soundtrack on there; if Hulk is anything to go by, it could really enhance the experience!
Finally; while I know it might be controversial, I’d get IMAScore in to remaster the soundtrack. I wouldn’t replace it per se, but I’d get IMAScore to do something like what they did to Colossus and Nemesis Inferno’s tracks at Thorpe a few years back, where they kept many of the iconic melodies from the original tracks, but remastered them to be longer tracks with a bit more to them, and changed the more minor parts of the track. I really like what they did at Thorpe, and I think they could do a lot with Nemesis’ track!
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