Enter Valhalla
TS Member
I’ve always wondered why the manufacturers from China have basically no presence in Europe. The only European park I’ve ever seen use them was the ill-fated Wonderland Eurasia in Turkey.
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Oakwood Discussion
- Thread starter Rob
- Start date
owenstreet7
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Taron
I'd be interested to know why the Chinese manufacturers aren't building coasters in Europe as much.
With Wonderland Eurasia, I'm genuinely curious why the coasters haven't been sold yet? Those are a complete waste of coasters.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
One reason I can think of is that there does seem to be, rightly or wrongly, huge scepticism around anything Chinese in Western countries, particularly the USA.
Also, manufacturers like Jinma made their name on "knock-offs" of Western rides, which arguably didn't endear them to Western parks. Even now they've legitimised their operation, companies like Jinma and Beijing Shibolai may find it hard to overcome this initial reputation of being "Chinese knock-off companies" in the Western theme park industry.
Also, manufacturers like Jinma made their name on "knock-offs" of Western rides, which arguably didn't endear them to Western parks. Even now they've legitimised their operation, companies like Jinma and Beijing Shibolai may find it hard to overcome this initial reputation of being "Chinese knock-off companies" in the Western theme park industry.
owenstreet7
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Taron
flyingguitar
TS Member
good point. tariffs, trade stuff etc could impact that. China can be quite vicious about delicate subjects and if anything happens they have prevented companies from providing support, or supplying goods to companies as retaliation to companies adding uncertainty.
I guess it could be a case of intimin, B&M, etc saying they won't work with a park who has one of these Chinese rides but I would also like to argue that apart from us enthusiasts no one knows who makes the rides, if a big park such as Alton or Disney installed a Chinese ride I would assume it would be in the news with them claming it is a Chinese knockoff ride manufacture.
but for a smaller park such as oakwood I wouldn't expect much is any backlash, it is kinda why I suggested it as the insanely low prices may aid in adding an investment that helps the park make a better change (although I still won't like it as it is a knock off ride manurfacture)
Poisson
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Giant Squid
If you'll pay, they'll work with you. They couldn't give a toss what else you have in the park unless it would bring them into disrepute directly (like the park having certain political symbols for example)
neil_wilson
TS Member
I know this could go quite off topic in terms of Chinese rides. China’s a big country and it’s easy to stereotype. I won’t go into a discussion about UK regulation, but at least in theory, there are meant to be controls over what products are imported into the UK. Although we’ve left the European Union, for a lot of things we’re still aligned with EU safety rules, at least in theory.
Any new ride in the UK (there is some wiggle room for older rides that have been in the UK for a long time) should be certified to the EN13814 standard. This sets standards for all kinds of things, from the type of restraints, to data about g forces to clearance envelopes.
Rides are supposed to have gone through something called a Pre-Use Inspection. This involves a design risk assessment (a type of technical risk assessment often called a Failure Modes Effects Analysis), a design review and a conformity to design review. There’s certain documentation that’s supposed to be provided with the ride, for example a Planned Preventative Maintenance Schedule (daily checks, weekly checks, monthly checks) and a non-destructive testing schedule.
In terms of manufacturing it’s not just about obvious things like track profiles. There’s are a lot of things that aren’t obvious such as the grade of steel, the quality of welds, engineering factors and the control system.
I’m sure there are very good Chinese manufacturers and they might be able to build rides more cheaply in China. Some Chinese manufacturers might be able to certify a ride to the EN13814 standard. But you can’t just buy a ride for a quarter of the price of a European ride and import it to the UK without checking it meets a long list of safety standards. At least, you shouldn’t be able to and if you do, there’s going to be a high degree of culpability if there’s an accident.
Any new ride in the UK (there is some wiggle room for older rides that have been in the UK for a long time) should be certified to the EN13814 standard. This sets standards for all kinds of things, from the type of restraints, to data about g forces to clearance envelopes.
Rides are supposed to have gone through something called a Pre-Use Inspection. This involves a design risk assessment (a type of technical risk assessment often called a Failure Modes Effects Analysis), a design review and a conformity to design review. There’s certain documentation that’s supposed to be provided with the ride, for example a Planned Preventative Maintenance Schedule (daily checks, weekly checks, monthly checks) and a non-destructive testing schedule.
In terms of manufacturing it’s not just about obvious things like track profiles. There’s are a lot of things that aren’t obvious such as the grade of steel, the quality of welds, engineering factors and the control system.
I’m sure there are very good Chinese manufacturers and they might be able to build rides more cheaply in China. Some Chinese manufacturers might be able to certify a ride to the EN13814 standard. But you can’t just buy a ride for a quarter of the price of a European ride and import it to the UK without checking it meets a long list of safety standards. At least, you shouldn’t be able to and if you do, there’s going to be a high degree of culpability if there’s an accident.
flyingguitar
TS Member
yes, but surely it would be similar for what you would also have to do for any American manufactures, there are bad Chinese manufactures (I can't recall the province name) but there is a ride type known as (Province) ride, where they are manufactures making really cheap rides (like £40,000) and they change names very often and lack a huge amount of safety systems.
from what I am aware currently the big Chinese manufactures have reasonable safety standards
I guess that could be right, but it could make a business impact though as the reason these Chinese manufactures have been able to make knock offs is because supposedly when installing a ride in a park they will send their engineers to reverse engineer another manufactures rides, so if intimin have new technology such as an innovation with LSM's would they want to supply them to a park who works with these manufactures who have copied them in the past?
neil_wilson
TS Member
A lot of the American manufacturers and European manufacturers regularly sell out of Europe/America, so they tend to design rides to each other’s standards anyway. They’ll design a ride to meet the European EN standard and the American ASTM standard, and take the most stringent option at each decision, so they’re covered in both continents.
I think the main difference is that parks in Europe don’t normally buy American rides because they’re cheaper than European ones. The reason companies like GCI and RMC have done well in Europe is because they’re offering something different that the European manufacturers aren’t largely building, and because their rides are well engineered.
Even if their safety standards are reasonable, they’d need to meet the very specific European standards.
It’d be one thing for a European park to go to a Chinese manufacturer who’s developed something exciting and new that you can’t buy from a European manufacturer. But if the main reason is to save money, I think they’d have to very cautious. China probably is a cheaper country to build things, but to an extent you get what you pay for.
I think the main difference is that parks in Europe don’t normally buy American rides because they’re cheaper than European ones. The reason companies like GCI and RMC have done well in Europe is because they’re offering something different that the European manufacturers aren’t largely building, and because their rides are well engineered.
Even if their safety standards are reasonable, they’d need to meet the very specific European standards.
It’d be one thing for a European park to go to a Chinese manufacturer who’s developed something exciting and new that you can’t buy from a European manufacturer. But if the main reason is to save money, I think they’d have to very cautious. China probably is a cheaper country to build things, but to an extent you get what you pay for.
Poisson
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Giant Squid
Before we get nuked from orbit by the mods, here's a case of when things go wrong standards wise
The ride failed to meet structural and clearance restrictions so was barred from opening. I believe in the UK we have a 2m clearance and the ride was designed to TuV specs of 1.8m
Tornado - Blackgang Chine (Ventnor, Isle of Wight, England, United Kingdom)
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The ride failed to meet structural and clearance restrictions so was barred from opening. I believe in the UK we have a 2m clearance and the ride was designed to TuV specs of 1.8m
owenstreet7
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Taron
That would be a smart move if they did that.
Somewhere where a park could operate the ride more often and also where capacity isn't going to be an issue.
At the same time, I'm probably too optimistic but with the site, the pool could be repurposed into a water ride of some sort whether that's a smaller shoot the chute, a more traditional log flume i.e. a super flume, or a rapids.
Chances are, it'll be the remains of Drenched and be an absolute eyesore.
With the large waterpark right next door, that may not be a real economic option.
Enter Valhalla
TS Member
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it ends up at one of Aspro’s many water parks around Europe.
If it was going to be at any, I would expect Aqualand Algrave since the Algrave already has two other competing water parks with mechanical rides. And with nearby Aquashow’s upcoming new Mack coaster this year, I’d expect they’re getting nervous. Would be a smart business move and it would suit a water park far more than Oakwood.
If it was going to be at any, I would expect Aqualand Algrave since the Algrave already has two other competing water parks with mechanical rides. And with nearby Aquashow’s upcoming new Mack coaster this year, I’d expect they’re getting nervous. Would be a smart business move and it would suit a water park far more than Oakwood.
Enter Valhalla
TS Member
Without context, it’s quite difficult to really judge this. As far as I’m aware, Oakwood don’t publicly release their attendance numbers, so I’ve no idea what they get now. Presume a lot less than 500k, but we really don’t know. I hear it can still get quite busy in the summer holidays, even now.